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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmscfdcsu View Post
    Men do have their issues at times, but they generally have a better ability to pick up on business norms and adapt.

    Right... it is women that have a much better ability then men to pick up on business norms and adapt...since it is opposite of what they are told to wear their entire lives.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mmscfdcsu View Post
    Men do have their issues at times, but they generally have a better ability to pick up on business norms and adapt.
    Well, it's not like it's all that hard for them, now, is it? In a normal office, they can wear one of the following, depending on the office culture:

    1. Khakis and a polo shirt or something similar--the business casual look.
    2. Dress pants, shirt, sports jacket
    3. A suit and tie
    4. A nicer suit and tie

    Women, OTOH, have a whole range of things to wear. There's a lot more room for expression and creativity, but also a lot more room for error.

    When I looked at the photos, I didn't see anything wrong with her outfits except for the last one. I've worked with women who have dressed like that and looked damn good doing it. No one seemed to mind; au contraire.

    But I have to say those pics make me kind of suspicious of her. 'Tain't the clothes; it's the pose. She looks like she's auditioning for something and it's not her day in court.

    There are more pics of her professional attire here: http://news.lalate.com/2010/06/03/de...enzana-photos/

    And again, it's not the clothes, it's the pose. She doesn't look like she's going to work; she looks like she's posing for an ad.

    http://televisioninternet.com/news/p...orenzana1.html
    http://televisioninternet.com/news/p...orenzana2.html
    http://televisioninternet.com/news/p...orenzana3.html
    http://televisioninternet.com/news/p...orenzana7.html

    I'll bet we hear next that she's considering lots of modeling and acting offers.
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  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prancer View Post
    'Tain't the clothes; it's the pose. She looks like she's auditioning
    It's pretty common I think for photographers to pose a person for still shots. When people I know were photographed for a news story, a good amount of time was spent by photographers posing them to get just the right shot. The person being photographed didn't have any say in it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Salome View Post
    It's pretty common I think for photographers to pose a person for still shots. When people I know were photographed for a news story, a good amount of time was spent by photographers posing them to get just the right shot. The person being photographed didn't have any say in it.
    The person being photographed always has a say unless the photographer has a gun. You can't be forced to pose for pictures for a news story. You can be asked; you can refuse.

    Call me crazy, but if a photographer told me to "walk that way with your back to the camera--now stop and look at me over your shoulder," I would know the effect that was being sought and if I were trying to make a point about my professionalism, I wouldn't do it.
    "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."-- Albert Einstein.

  5. #65
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    I think all the clothes in the links Prancer provided are totally fine for work. and while she does look posed, the shots are far less come hither than the first set. The one with the rolling suitcase made me laugh though - it totally looks like an ad for executive travel or something

    and just because so much of the conversation has been about her fashion and style, I'll add that the dress in pics 6 & 7, while work-appropriate, is really ugly
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  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prancer View Post
    Well, it's not like it's all that hard for them, now, is it? In a normal office, they can wear one of the following, depending on the office culture:

    1. Khakis and a polo shirt or something similar--the business casual look.
    2. Dress pants, shirt, sports jacket
    3. A suit and tie
    4. A nicer suit and tie

    Women, OTOH, have a whole range of things to wear. There's a lot more room for expression and creativity, but also a lot more room for error.

    When I looked at the photos, I didn't see anything wrong with her outfits except for the last one. I've worked with women who have dressed like that and looked damn good doing it. No one seemed to mind; au contraire.

    But I have to say those pics make me kind of suspicious of her. 'Tain't the clothes; it's the pose. She looks like she's auditioning for something and it's not her day in court.
    When I take my son shopping for clothes, I am very glad that I am a woman and have so much more choice. Men/boys really have very few choices, and it is harder to screw up IMO. Although, more conservative companies may demand a tie and jacket of men, I think this is rarer now than it was ten years ago.

    I think it all depends on the company where you work and not even so much the geographical region. I have worked in an office where shorts and flip flops were okay. In the same city, different company, you would get sent home for wearing open-toed shoes. However, dress code can also vary by office location, too. Someone ealier mentioned London - my company had an office in the financial district of London. We asked ahead of time how everyone usually dressed and were told "smart skirts and sensible shoes for women, suits for men". Well, imagine our surprise when we showed up, thinking we were dressed to the nines compared to flip-flop office, to looks that suggested we may have just as well popped out of the cab with a steel drum, shouting "Everybody mambo!" Colored dresses and light suits (it was August) did not fit in with our sister office where it looked like wardrobe color choices were mostly black or dark black.

    Back to the subject at hand, I agree that it's the posing in the pictures and not so much the clothes. Shoving the chest out with a come-hither look isn't really doing this gal any favors.

    I honestly feel sorry for managers who have a direct report who DOES dress too suggestively. I would hate to have to come down on someone for their personal style and what they perceive as okay, but I guess it just comes with the territory.

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    Quote Originally Posted by genevieve View Post
    I think all the clothes in the links Prancer provided are totally fine for work. and while she does look posed, the shots are far less come hither than the first set. The one with the rolling suitcase made me laugh though - it totally looks like an ad for executive travel or something
    They're mostly the same clothes as in the first pics, just with different poses.

    The one where she's reading with her legs crossed looks like an ad, too. "Prim Life Insurance provides all our clients with a customized, easy to read guide to their individual policies."

    I thought the first set of pics looked more "come hither," too, but I figure the ones I linked are the rejects. And to me, the whole thing speaks of "finding a new career."

    Quote Originally Posted by Bev Johnston View Post
    I honestly feel sorry for managers who have a direct report who DOES dress too suggestively. I would hate to have to come down on someone for their personal style and what they perceive as okay, but I guess it just comes with the territory.
    When I was a paralegal, the most prim and proper attorney in our office had a secretary who wore the most clothes I have ever seen. Miniskirts that, if she raised her arms, let us all know that she liked string bikinis. One dress had these big, handshaped lace insets and she clearly wore nothing underneath; she wore it once a week. She never wore a bra and it was often obvious. Heels that looked like something a dominatrix would wear. My secretary sat across from her and told me that the worst part of her day was when MJ would start filing .

    The funny thing was, she was really very shy and meek and mousy. If you only looked at her from the neck up (and believe me, most days that was exactly what we all did), you'd have thought she was a rather bookish librarian type. She told me once that she let her husband pick out all her clothes. She should have shot him.

    But would the lawyer say anything to her about it? Nope, too embarrassed. He would blush and stammer every time someone brought it up.
    "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."-- Albert Einstein.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prancer View Post
    She told me once that she let her husband pick out all her clothes. She should have shot him.

    But would the lawyer say anything to her about it? Nope, too embarrassed. He would blush and stammer every time someone brought it up.
    So the lawyer left it to the other people in the office to try to talk to this woman about her clothes? Since she told you about her husband picking her clothes, I presume you (or somebody) talked to her. How did she take it? Because I'm wondering if things like this bank worker's situation aren't a failure in communication. The higher-ups assign one of the the female coworkers to talk to her about her attire, but she takes the discussion as just girl-chat and "yer jus' jealous" and doesn't take it seriously.

  9. #69
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    My office enforces a business casual dress code. (Don't they all?) Of all the outfits posted, the grey top with the black pencil skirt is the only one that I would personally wear to my office. And the pink top with the skirt is the only that if one of my associates came to work in that outfit, I would send her home. Everything else falls into a category that I wouldn't wear them personally but I am ok if people on my team wore them.

    My DH also works in an investment bank and it's a business formal environment. He HAS to wear a long sleeve shirt and tie to work everyday, 5 days a week. And in his office short sleeve shirts are not allowed for men, because according to DH, "nobody wants to see your body hair". He says it's actually easier to women who have more choices and can opt to wear a nice silk blouse and it's so much cooler than a shirt and tie.

  10. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by genegri View Post
    My DH also works in an investment bank and he HAS to wear a long sleeve shirt and tie to work everyday, 5 days a week. And in his office short sleeve shirts are not allowed for men, because according to DH, "nobody wants to see your body hair".
    That's how I feel about ladies sleeveless tops and armpits. Lots of women's summer fashions in the past 5 plus years are sleeveless. It is very hard to find sleeved blouse that doesn't look like something my grandmother would also wear. But really, I do not want to see anybody's armpits at work.
    What would Jenny do?

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by susan6 View Post
    The higher-ups assign one of the the female coworkers to talk to her about her attire, but she takes the discussion as just girl-chat and "yer jus' jealous" and doesn't take it seriously.
    That would be even more inappropriate. Quite frankly, if it's not coming from management or HR, it means nothing. I wouldn't take it seriously if a coworker who wasn't management tried to tell me what (not) to wear if those in charge didn't say anything.
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  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by susan6 View Post
    So the lawyer left it to the other people in the office to try to talk to this woman about her clothes? Since she told you about her husband picking her clothes, I presume you (or somebody) talked to her. How did she take it?
    No, actually we went to lunch and I was bitching because *I* had been counseled on my clothes that day because the yellow linen suit I was wearing was just too bright a yellow, especially combined with the blouse I had on. And the same timid lawyer was the one who complained, grrrrrrrr!

    But we started talking about buying clothes and she told me that she had hopelessly bad taste, so her husband bought all of her clothes for her and picked out her outfits every morning.

    I was chewing at the time, which was good. It kept my mouth busy long enough to keep me from saying something.
    "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."-- Albert Einstein.

  13. #73
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    Maybe one day this woman may learn the difference between what to wear at the office and what to wear for parties....

  14. #74

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    To my (conservative, Puritanical, Yankee, old-lady) eyes, the only thing wrong with most of the banker's clothes is that they are all one-size too small.

    I work on the edge of the city's banking/isurance district and none of the women I see walking around wear clothes that tight. Other than the hookers a couple blocks down, that is.
    I'd rather be thought of as absolutely ridiculous than as absolutely boring.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prancer View Post
    The funny thing was, she was really very shy and meek and mousy. If you only looked at her from the neck up (and believe me, most days that was exactly what we all did), you'd have thought she was a rather bookish librarian type. She told me once that she let her husband pick out all her clothes. She should have shot him.


    My bf (and my friends' bfs) would prefer that we show off our goods at home, not at work for everybody else to see!

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    It seems to me that almost all the posts in this thread scream "double standard". If she was unattractive I'll bet most of the posts would be supportive. The only outfit I saw that wasn't appropriate for an office was the pink shirt. All the others look like what I see on the women at my bank. And I find it doubtful that she wore the pink shirt to work....there's no telling where Fox got that picture of her.

    In the video I didn't think she acted or spoke in a seductive way. Her hems were knee lenght & I thought her clothes were attractive but not sexy. She struck me as a confident woman, which is threatening to some men.

    As for the nips, that has happened to me...I have the type that doesn't need the cold to appear under my clothes. I have fought this my whole life by wearing padded bras or nipple covers, but have not always been successful. And there have been times that I didn't know they were showing until I got to work.

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    Her outfits look fine to me O.o Except the pink one, as many other users have said. As for the poses, I'd like to think it's more along the lines of she's a confident woman who's well aware of her looks. And I'll leave it at that.

  18. #78

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    I thought she looked great! If I had that type of body, I would wear that... and I have to wonder why the double standard for the woman. I also wonder if she was homely would people be calling her a 'callgirl' or one step away from 'prostitute.'

    Fortunately, I have a very casual working environment. One day I could wear a dress and the next jeans and a nice shirt. I wouldn't bat an eye if my colleagues came in looking like that. I would probably tell them I'm jealous and wished I could look that good!
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    I should apply to work at Citibank. I can tell them I qualify for the job cause I certainly would never be accused of being too sexy!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Twilight1 View Post
    I also wonder if she was homely would people be calling her a 'callgirl' or one step away from 'prostitute.'

    Yes, since in real life, most prostitutes don't resemble Julia Roberts in "Pretty Woman".
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