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  1. #41
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    ^^^^
    I was going to say the same thing. Many bras, new or well worn, do show nipples. I hate that attribute of bras and try to find some that avoid this unfortunate thing. even padded bras are that way.

  2. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by Norlite View Post
    Yeah, some people are strangely afraid / offended / intimidated of boobs. And the bigger they are, the more afraid......etc.etc. of them they are.
    Yep. The best job I had was in a lingerie shop when I was a student. All girls, mainly female customers and a LOT of stories. It's amazing how often people assume that curvy women have implants or a sexually provocative. Newsflash - we can't always help what size we are, we can't always hide it, and why should we have to because everyone else feels threatened?

    Quote Originally Posted by millyskate View Post
    I really don't see all curvy women walking around with visible nipples. There are ways to dress in order to avoid or minimize the problem - these outfits look like they are chosen to highlight the problem. The mere fact this whole thread is about it, IMO, demonstrates that they are what jump out of the picture.
    I do. Quite often. I'm curvy and I own one padded bra that I wear perhaps once a year, because it makes me look even bigger. I risk the showing nipples because I am more comfortable with that then looking like I have two melons shoved down my shirt.

    Nipples are out of fashion right now. Go back 10 years or so and it was a different story and they'll probably come back in at some point.

    That said, for the info of other curvy girls here, it is possible to buy these nipple cover things that you shove in your normal bra which does a good job of hiding them, rather than being forced to wear something padded.

    There is a way to dress for your body type and I dress very conservatively, but if big busted girls feel comfortable flaunting what they have, then good luck to them. I admire their confidence.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure it's worth watching.

  3. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by IceAlisa View Post
    Anyway, the conversation touched on wearing high heels in the work place. One of the women rolled her eyes and said only secretaries do that. That struck me is sort of sexist. Basically women have to dress up as men to be perceived successful and noteworthy in business?

    Then a few months later I ran into a female MBA student who is enrolled in one of the most prestigious programs in the country and who has met her share of Wall Street women.

    She herself is extremely good looking and chic. And she assured me that Wall Street women are very tiffed, including tailored suits and expensive heels. So there. I was reassured that one doesn't have to give up one's femininity in order to succeed in business.
    What's appropriate business attire varies from industry to industry, company to company, and region to region. What's appropriate to wear in NYC is usually not appropriate in Columbia, SC - and vice versa. What's okay to wear to work at a NJ-based consulting office would not be okay to wear at a NJ-based manufacturing headquarters.

    In other words, it's possible that both women are right. They're in different industries.
    Last edited by GarrAarghHrumph; 06-06-2010 at 01:51 PM.
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  4. #44
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    I don't mind boobage or nipple action, but for those that do can I recommend Nipless?
    To think that fun is simple fun, while earnest things are earnest, proves all too plain that neither one thou truthfully discernest.

  5. #45
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    Yes, the clothes are not great, somewhat trashy and not professional, but I can't help wonder if there is really something else going on. Something harder for the Boss to describe. It may have as much to do with her attitude and the way she relates to others. Just looking at her face in the photos reminds me of one of my clients who is an exprostitute. She gets grief from people in her AA and NA groups for the way she dresses. She has even brought in pictures to therapy to ask what is wrong. Her clolthes aren't that bad either, but her way of relating to others makes people uneasy. Even though she hasn't turned tricks for a decade or two, she still goes into provocative mode when a man is around. Again, this is harder to describe, but makes others very uncomfortable. In a group of women, she is fine.

  6. #46
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    I wouldn't be too quick to say that she has to be wearing a bra because her breasts aren't down - it could also be because they're implants. She could also be wearing a top with a bra built in which can offer some support but doesn't hide nipple action.

    And I can't believe some are OK with the pink/red top! From what I see, you can clearly see the outline of her naked breasts. That's only work attire appropriate if you're working in a strip joint!

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by GarrAarghHrumph View Post
    What's appropriate business attire varies from industry to industry, company to company, and region to region. What's appropriate to wear in NYC is usually not appropriate in Columbia, SC - and vice versa. What's okay to wear to work at a NJ-based consulting office would not be okay to wear at a NJ-based manufacturing headquarters.

    In other words, it's possible that both women are right. They're in different industries.
    Oh I am sure they were both right. But what the first woman said saddened me greatly. It sounded as if it was not OK to look feminine in her work environment. I was happy to hear that high power work environments exist where femininity and style wasn't taboo.
    "Nature is a damp, inconvenient sort of place where birds and animals wander about uncooked."

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  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by IceAlisa View Post
    Oh I am sure they were both right. But what the first woman said saddened me greatly. It sounded as if it was not OK to look feminine in her work environment. I was happy to hear that high power work environments exist where femininity and style wasn't taboo.
    Femininity is completely subjective though. To some, looking feminine means skirts and heels. To others its pants and button down shirts.

    A good example of this is Ellen Degeneres and Portia de Rossi. Ellen's idea of dressing femininely is different than her wife's. It's not the same feminine look that most would think of when hearing that word, but it's still how she approaches it. And it has led to her complaining that when walking red carpets rarely do the press care about who she's wearing, but Portia is always asked.

    I will agree though that you're initial post with the woman saying that only secretaries wear heels is very sexist. She could be living in more of a 'man's world' mindset, but to me, no matter what the job, as long as the person is comfortable (and appropriate) they should wear what they like. I know if I was an executive, whether in NYC or Hickville, I'd probably wear pencil skirts and heels because I'm a fan of that look and feel comfortable wearing it. I'm also extremely comfortable in flats and wear those quite often. I mean, I'm no Victoria Beckham who is publicly kind of opposed to flats.

    Many people aren't comfortable in heels and I actually have some friends that aren't comfortable wearing them who find stiletto heels (which to me are the nicest ones to look at, I'm not a fan of chunky heels) to be 'trashy' whereas I find they can work well to add class to an outfit. It all depends on the mindset of the person.

  9. #49

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    Corporate dress DEFINITELY varies from place to place, business to business. I was recently working with a Belgian businessman who had to go on a business trip to the financial district of London. He was stunned by all the suits. The idea of professional dress in his company was a shirt and trousers, and a suit only if there was an important meeting but definitely not every day.

    Meanwhile, while I wear jeans to work, a friend working for the same company in Germany isn't allowed to. The great difference is that most of the clients we work with are also wearing jeans, or else casual professional attire, whereas she's working with clients with a stricter dress code.

    I don't see a problem with what the woman is wearing, it would be fine where I'm from, but if the company has a strict dress policy then I understand why it could cause problems.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure it's worth watching.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by screech View Post
    Femininity is completely subjective though. To some, looking feminine means skirts and heels. To others its pants and button down shirts.

    A good example of this is Ellen Degeneres and Portia de Rossi. Ellen's idea of dressing femininely is different than her wife's. It's not the same feminine look that most would think of when hearing that word, but it's still how she approaches it. And it has led to her complaining that when walking red carpets rarely do the press care about who she's wearing, but Portia is always asked.

    I will agree though that you're initial post with the woman saying that only secretaries wear heels is very sexist. She could be living in more of a 'man's world' mindset, but to me, no matter what the job, as long as the person is comfortable (and appropriate) they should wear what they like. I know if I was an executive, whether in NYC or Hickville, I'd probably wear pencil skirts and heels because I'm a fan of that look and feel comfortable wearing it. I'm also extremely comfortable in flats and wear those quite often. I mean, I'm no Victoria Beckham who is publicly kind of opposed to flats.

    Many people aren't comfortable in heels and I actually have some friends that aren't comfortable wearing them who find stiletto heels (which to me are the nicest ones to look at, I'm not a fan of chunky heels) to be 'trashy' whereas I find they can work well to add class to an outfit. It all depends on the mindset of the person.
    It is subjective but as you correctly pointed out, the friend in question was referring to attire that would very closely resemble a business man's, including the shoes AND most importantly, denigrated a woman's choice to dress differently. That's what bothered me.

    OTOH, I am fine with anyone who likes dressing that way--masculine suit, shoes and tie. I am not fine with someone saying that pencil skirts and heels are for secretaries. And implying that you are a dumb bimbo if you dress like that and should not be taken seriously.

    Dowdiness does not equal goodliness.
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    from Speedy Death

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by *Jen* View Post
    I don't see a problem with what the woman is wearing, it would be fine where I'm from, but if the company has a strict dress policy then I understand why it could cause problems.

    Yes. Some workers are better than others at picking up on what the real norms are at the business. A more seasoned female worker knows what is appropriate and what is not. Which outfits help you move up the ladder and which help you get moved out the door. Right or wrong, that is the way it is. Much of it is not written anywhere in the dress policies. Some of the younger workers are still more influenced by what they see on television and in magazines than by what they see in "real life". They struggle to find a way to incorporate some of their own personal style into the agency norms.

    Men do have their issues at times, but they generally have a better ability to pick up on business norms and adapt. A notable exception in my memort was the young man who showed up for a first day of Internship at an agency where I was employed. In conservative Cleveland. At a children's service agency, where all men wore suits. He showed up in torn short-short cutoff jeans, sleeveless T-shirt and sandals, with lots of piercings and tatoos in evidence.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by IceAlisa View Post
    Dowdiness does not equal goodliness.
    And not wearing heels and makeup does not equal dowdy.
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  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by genevieve View Post
    And not wearing heels and makeup does not equal dowdy.
    Not always but sometimes.
    "Nature is a damp, inconvenient sort of place where birds and animals wander about uncooked."

    from Speedy Death

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    Quote Originally Posted by genevieve View Post
    And not wearing heels and makeup does not equal dowdy.
    It equals dowdy inasmuch as wearing heels and make-up equals cheap and slutty.

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    I've certainly seen people wear heels and make-up and still pull of dowdy, too. Stereotypes, gotta love 'em...

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norlite View Post
    Yeah, some people are strangely afraid / offended / intimidated of boobs. And the bigger they are, the more afraid......etc.etc. of them they are.
    I think people just don't want to have someone show off their physical assets (whatever they may be) at the workplace. I wouldn't show up in a professional (read:corporate) setting with skin-tight leggings, because I don't want to show off my butt and legs there. It's just not the place to do it. In fact, if I were to work in a corporate setting, I would avoid anything that showed how thin I am, because I'm VERY thin and it would stick out among my coworkers.

    When men wear suits at the workplace, you often can't tell their body shape underneath unless they're obese. I think women should aim for that kind of general neutrality, even if they can't adhere to it 100% because some body shapes are harder to dress for than others.

    Especially in a corporate setting, your name is not Lady Gaga. It's not the place to be visually individual.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anita18 View Post
    I think people just don't want to have someone show off their physical assets (whatever they may be) at the workplace..
    Yes Anita, I understand that "people just don't want to have someone....."


    I was giving my opinion as to why.

    Which to me explains why wookstock was spoken to wearing a sleeveless turtleneck (read: usually formfitting) while a co-worker wearing a spagetti strap camisole(wookstock noted looked braless) with not much physical assets was not.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by michiruwater View Post
    I've certainly seen people wear heels and make-up and still pull of dowdy, too. Stereotypes, gotta love 'em...
    That's true too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Norlite View Post

    Which to me explains why wookstock was spoken to wearing a sleeveless turtleneck (read: usually formfitting) while a co-worker wearing a spagetti strap camisole(wookstock noted looked braless) with not much physical assets was not.
    That's the crux of the problem if that is in fact the case. The double standard.
    "Nature is a damp, inconvenient sort of place where birds and animals wander about uncooked."

    from Speedy Death

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    Quote Originally Posted by mmscfdcsu View Post
    Men do have their issues at times, but they generally have a better ability to pick up on business norms and adapt.
    Not surprising, since it is generally men who establish the business norms.

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by IceAlisa View Post
    That's the crux of the problem if that is in fact the case. The double standard.
    It's not a double standard as it is an infinite standard, considering how many combination of clothing styles and body shapes there are. And especially considering that women's business attire are not expected to be as uniform as men's business attire is, so women need to think more about what they're going to wear to work and still be appropriately neutral for their body shape.

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