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  1. #21

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    I have a really hard time believing that her male coworkers were "complaining" about how hot she is. Seriously, straight men do that? I don't think so... I might believe their boss complained about how they were distracted but they did no complaining themselves, no way no how.
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Japanfan View Post
    The way the story is written it sounds like the issue was her attractiveness in the clothes she wore, not the clothes themselves. She indicates that other employees wore revealing clothes. In which case the company looks totally in the wrong and the poor men who were distracted by her look like idiots (yes, men can control themselves).

    But it's also possible that she was fired for reasons of performance and is just stirring up a fuss, I suppose.
    I think the answer probably lies behind door #2, especially when she alleges that other women wore the same thing (really? I know some men who'd want to work for Citibank, then!) and management's response was the other women were unattractive so they don't count. That is the kind of thing that comes out of a bitchy woman's mouth or a middle manager in a Lifetime movie script. Why do I have the feeling she won't be getting any supporting testimony (assuming it makes it to open court at all) from her FEMALE coworkers, either? I bet she's gambling on Citibank's recent negative publicity and figuring people will believe her over the eeeevil bankers. (Would be more convincing if you wore business attire instead of a see-through shirt with no bra, sweetie.)

  3. #23

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    No, straight men do this. Not to me (damnit), but I have seen that situation before, in a business situation.

    It's hard to be a female in business. If you're too attractive, you're deemed a distraction and can't get further ahead, because obviously, you got where you are based on looks, and by Jove, that will stop in mid-level management. If you're unattractive, you're deemed beneath notice and probably kind of slow. The only women that I've seen truly get ahead in most (not all, but most) situations are the ones that are kind of pretty in a non-threatening way.

    I'm convinced it's why all female executives have either that same subtlely highlighted blonde bob or page boy or slightly-below the shoulders straight brown hairs and dress in ugly pants suits from mall department stores.
    "The practice of sport is a human right. Every individual must have the possibility of practicing sport, without discrimination of any kind and in the Olympic spirit, which requires mutual understanding with a spirit of friendship, solidarity and fair play." –Olympic Charter

  4. #24
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    This is interesting. I have attended a brunch not too long ago where a bunch of successful business women were present. And by successful I mean they were the primary bread winners of the family while the hubby stayed home. I see it happening quite a lot these days (and why not? Equal opportunity works both ways).

    Anyway, the conversation touched on wearing high heels in the work place. One of the women rolled her eyes and said only secretaries do that. That struck me is sort of sexist. Basically women have to dress up as men to be perceived successful and noteworthy in business?

    Then a few months later I ran into a female MBA student who is enrolled in one of the most prestigious programs in the country and who has met her share of Wall Street women.

    She herself is extremely good looking and chic. And she assured me that Wall Street women are very tiffed, including tailored suits and expensive heels. So there. I was reassured that one doesn't have to give up one's femininity in order to succeed in business.
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  5. #25

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    I'm glad to hear that Wall Street is so progressive. But Wall Street isn't Main Street, and I think that's rather the exception than the rule.

    Quote Originally Posted by danceronice View Post
    I think the answer probably lies behind door #2, especially when she alleges that other women wore the same thing (really? I know some men who'd want to work for Citibank, then!) and management's response was the other women were unattractive so they don't count. That is the kind of thing that comes out of a bitchy woman's mouth or a middle manager in a Lifetime movie script. Why do I have the feeling she won't be getting any supporting testimony (assuming it makes it to open court at all) from her FEMALE coworkers, either? I bet she's gambling on Citibank's recent negative publicity and figuring people will believe her over the eeeevil bankers. (Would be more convincing if you wore business attire instead of a see-through shirt with no bra, sweetie.)
    This post saddens me greatly. Why would only a bitchy woman say that? And why would you have to include the word "bitchy" in front of it? We don't know this woman. Maybe it wasn't as explicitly stated, but I've known too many women that have come up against the same type of discrimination to just summarily dismiss her statement. Why would you assume that her female co-workers won't back her up? If they had any sense, they wouldn't want to work in that kind of environment, or put a stop to it. The fact that Citibank is commenting on it at all, even to deny it, makes me wonder.

    I agree there were some questionable outfits, though I have more of an issue with the pink shirt than I do the white one, as it looks like lingere. The white shirt would have been OK with a better bra (and she is wearing one, otherwise the girls would be down to her knees). OTOH, when you're built the way she is, the choices are: wear clothes that fit to the body OR wear clothes that conceal everything and gives the illusion that she's chubby, which is just as bad if not worse in business. I've seen a lot of high school girls struggle with this dilemma.

    What I want to know is, what is the dress code for Citibank employees, and what kind of language is used. How strict is it, and how open to interpretation is it. I think that's what this case will come down to.
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  6. #26

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    As far as I know, proper business attire has always included undergarments. So far, from what I can see, she clearly missed the memo on that one.

    This might not go over well, and I think it has been alluded to somewhat, but two women can't wear the same thing and it look the same on them. Your figure is everything. This isn't saying that one person's shape is better than or worse than someone else's. I was watching Iron Man 2 the other day and Gwyneth Paltrow and Scarlett Johanssen both had on dark business suits. Both women are attractive. The scene that I am thinking of showed both women walking up a flight of steps, shot from the back. The difference in the two women was obvious. Scarlett's suit was in no way what I would consider conservative--she has to work extra hard to play down her attributes.

    You have to dress for your shape and body type. There are some things that should never be worn to an office/professional environment. But, people have to understand that you will be portrayed a certain way based on what you wear and how you wear it. All of this works together. It might not be fair, but unfortunately, it's the way that it is.

    Looking at these pictures, it's obvious that this woman's intent was to be sexy even in a conservative business environment. I can't believe that this employee hadn't been warned about her attire before she was terminated. As a supervisor myself, I would send home any woman who came to work and it was obvious she wasn't wearing a bra, panties, etc. I've sent home people for coming to work inappropriately dressed and haven't felt bad about it. I seriously hope that Citibank isn't being as irresponsible as this woman claims.
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  7. #27
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    FiveRinger, why is it obvious that she is not wearing panties? Bra, yes she is either not wearing one or still poking through it but panties? Just because there are no VPL's doesn't mean she is not wearing them. There are thongs and the seamless laser cut underwear these days.
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  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by FiveRinger View Post
    This might not go over well, and I think it has been alluded to somewhat, but two women can't wear the same thing and it look the same on them. Your figure is everything.
    Maybe women should just wear chadors and be done with it
    As a supervisor myself, I would send home any woman who came to work and it was obvious she wasn't wearing a bra, panties, etc.
    Just curious, but have you sent home men for not wearing undershirts underneath their dress shirts?

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by agalisgv View Post
    Maybe women should just wear chadors and be done with it Just curious, but have you sent home men for not wearing undershirts underneath their dress shirts?
    "Nature is a damp, inconvenient sort of place where birds and animals wander about uncooked."

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  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by agalisgv View Post
    Just curious, but have you sent home men for not wearing undershirts underneath their dress shirts?
    I said that I would send home a woman who obviously didn't have on a bra and/or panties. That did happen in our call center a few weeks ago where a woman did have on a pair of white capris with nothing under them and her female supervisor sent her home. It was disgusting, and had it been my subordinate I would have done the same. As a woman, I was offended.

    Thongs, seamless panties, all of that stuff is fine--great, whatever. I don't have a problem with any of that. It's not my business what you've got on under there. I just don't need know about it at work. We were talking about professional, business attire. There are certain things that I just don't need/want to see. Especially at work. It's uncomfortable.

    In the picture, I was referring to lack of undergarments to the bra.

    I've never sent a man home for not wearing anything underneath a dress shirt. In my office, it's fairly casual and most of the guys wear dark t-shirts. That hasn't been an issue. We are usually trying to keep from seeing the guys' underwear--in fact, begging them to not sag. A few have been sent home for it, but I haven't had to do that yet.

    Although, I remember while in college, the head librarian, who was male, used to wear white dress shirts with nothing under them. It was kind of creepy.

    Let me also say that there are a lot of very young women working at my job, for many this is their first job. They've had to be hand-held a lot where appropriate dress is concerned. For me, personally, that means being appropriately covered. There are some company rules that I have to enforce, but I don't have control over that. Being covered up needs exploration for some, though, I guess.
    Last edited by FiveRinger; 06-05-2010 at 07:37 PM.
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  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matryeshka View Post


    This post saddens me greatly. Why would only a bitchy woman say that? And why would you have to include the word "bitchy" in front of it? We don't know this woman. Maybe it wasn't as explicitly stated, but I've known too many women that have come up against the same type of discrimination to just summarily dismiss her statement. Why would you assume that her female co-workers won't back her up? If they had any sense, they wouldn't want to work in that kind of environment, or put a stop to it. The fact that Citibank is commenting on it at all, even to deny it, makes me wonder.
    It's usually a corporation's policy not to comment on lawsuits. Their lawyers usually try to make sure of that. Blabbing in the press in any way can always come back and bite you--they comment that the suit's without merit, that's all they need to say except in court.

    And I honestly don't believe, between the article (where we have ONLY her version) and the photos (which shows how she wants to be presented in the press--you can't tell me she's oblivious that her shirt's see-through) that "that kind of environment" exists at all. She comes across as an attention whore who wants to emphasize how much hotter she is to male coworkers than her female coworkers. They could dress in the same clothes as her and it isn't a distraction because she's just so sexy and they're not... She made sure THAT comment got printed.

    She works in a bank office, where conservative dress is the order of the day. That doesn't mean wear a burqa. That means "Put on a bra if you need one and wear clothes that aren't see-through." I work in a fairly casual office but we still don't wear blue jeans and t-shirts, and if I came in braless with a sheer blouse so everyone can see my business, you can bet I'd get told to cover up and probably written up to boot. That's not because my male supervisor thinks I'm so hot I'm a distraction, it's because it's not a professional image.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by PDilemma View Post
    According to her lawyer, they told her not to wear anything that was properly fitted, including properly tailored business suits and turtlenecks. I think the pink top is beside the point once that's been said to an employee.
    "Properly tailored" clothes do not not leave a person's bust size up to the imagination. The only appropriate business attire in those pictures as far as the tops go is the grey one. That pink top is club wear and definitely not apporpriate for the office. Ditto the white top, which looks to me to be a leotard.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by FiveRinger View Post
    I can't believe that this employee hadn't been warned about her attire before she was terminated.
    And if she was, then she doesn't have a leg to stand on, considering she is working in NY, which is an "at will" state.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karina1974 View Post
    "Properly tailored" clothes do not not leave a person's bust size up to the imagination. The only appropriate business attire in those pictures as far as the tops go is the grey one.
    I agree with this - something that makes your breasts the main focus of the whole outfit is not properly fitted.

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    Quote Originally Posted by woodstock View Post

    I had a general manager tell me once that a sleeveless turtleneck I wore was innapropriate...I pointed out the slender/less curvy/a cup coworker in the cami tank top (I'm pretty sure without bra)on the other side of the room and asked if he had spoken to her about the amount of skin she was showing on her chest. Needless to say he backed off.
    Good for you, what a tool.

    Yeah, some people are strangely afraid / offended / intimidated of boobs. And the bigger they are, the more afraid......etc.etc. of them they are.

    And heaven forbid the slight outline of a nip appear.


    Personally, I think they're beautiful, and quite often find myself admiring other people's. Even though I'm completely hetero and adore men.


    She looks wonderful. The pink top is just ugly.

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    When will we see the video "Bank Workers Gone Wild"?

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    Quote Originally Posted by danceronice View Post
    (Would be more convincing if you wore business attire instead of a see-through shirt with no bra, sweetie.)
    Sweetie? Really? Now THAT seems like something only a bitchy woman would say. And I don't find the shirt to be see-through and she's likely wearing a bra or her boobs would be hanging MUCH lower. As a woman of size myself, unless you wear a padded bra it's nearly impossible to keep the nipples from popping through occasionally, even in looser clothing, but padded bras make it that much harder to look "demure".

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    I really don't see all curvy women walking around with visible nipples. There are ways to dress in order to avoid or minimize the problem - these outfits look like they are chosen to highlight the problem. The mere fact this whole thread is about it, IMO, demonstrates that they are what jump out of the picture.

    My guess is it wasn't the woman's clothes that got her into trouble, but her attitude.
    Last edited by millyskate; 06-06-2010 at 07:44 AM.

  19. #39

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    I'm sure her nipples aren't visible ALL the time, in fact that's the only photo in which they are.

    ETA: What the heck is wrong with being a little nipply anyway? It's a natural body reaction signifying nothing more than she might be a little cold or bloated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by millyskate View Post
    I really don't see all curvy women walking around with visible nipples. There are ways to dress in order to avoid or minimize the problem - these outfits look like they are chosen to highlight the problem. The mere fact this whole thread is about it, IMO, demonstrates that they are what jump out of the picture.

    My guess is it wasn't the woman's clothes that got her into trouble, but her attitude.
    What strikes me about the nipples is that only one is poking through. There is a chance that she was wearing a well-worn bra. I'm not a busty person (32C) but when I wear my older bras, even the thicker ones, sometimes my nipples make a bit of an indent. Nowhere near her level - not obscene or anything, but it happens to the best of us.

    It's just like TV shows. Watching reruns of Friends lately I've noticed that Jennifer Aniston's nipples are always popping out to say hello, but from the back her bra strap will sometimes be noticable in the nipply scenes. It's seriously distracting.

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