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  1. #401

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    Quote Originally Posted by Prancer View Post
    Let's see, Jaime said it nice and loud in front of a lot of people backstage and the conversation continued in front of those people beyond that one comment.

    BUt yeah, the people who heard it are the idiots.



    Yes, but since some people do consider that infidelity and others do not, and the term "emotional affair" means different things to different people, the stats on that are really unreliable.

    If no sex is involved, where would you draw the line between a close friendship and an "emotional affair?"
    True.

    For myself, before I do something, I ask myself if I would have any trouble with my husband watching my actions, listening to my conversations, or reading my emails/texts. If the answer is "yes," I consider it unfaithful (with or without sex) and don't go ahead with it ... but that's just me. I suspect sex is the bright line for most people.

    O-

  2. #402

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    Quote Originally Posted by Prancer View Post


    Yes, but since some people do consider that infidelity and others do not, and the term "emotional affair" means different things to different people, the stats on that are really unreliable.

    If no sex is involved, where would you draw the line between a close friendship and an "emotional affair?"
    Emotionally and mentally straying from a marriage may be seen differently than sexually straying but the couples that break up and or go to counselling etc can still be measured in how the impact is there.

    Ie Facebook is the perfect outlet to emotionally and mentally stray on a marriage. If you are hiding what you are doing on facebook, hiding messages or deleting them, meeting someone for a work `lunch` but keeping it from your spouse, text messaging someone and hiding it from your spouse, talking about your problems with your spouse, that is cheating. That isn`t a close friendship IMHO and I don`t get the confusion around emotional cheating.
    ~I am convinced that life is 10% what happens to me and 90% how I react to it.~ (Charles R. Swindoll)

  3. #403
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twilight1 View Post
    Ie Facebook is the perfect outlet to emotionally and mentally stray on a marriage. If you are hiding what you are doing on facebook, hiding messages or deleting them, meeting someone for a work `lunch` but keeping it from your spouse, text messaging someone and hiding it from your spouse, talking about your problems with your spouse, that is cheating. That isn`t a close friendship IMHO and I don`t get the confusion around emotional cheating.
    Well, no, that's a very specific set of behaviors, but my understanding is that emotional affairs start as friendships and develop from there, so at some point, they cross a particular line. Now where that line is exactly......hard to say. And so I would find any statistics on that subject suspect unless there was a clear definition of what constituted an emotional affair set for the the particular study doing the measuring.

    For example, here is a list of what constitutes emotional cheating from one psychologist:

    •Flirting "harmlessly" with people of the opposite sex.
    •Having lunch or drinks after work with members of the opposite sex.
    •Discussing your work problems thoroughly at work, leaving nothing to talk about with your spouse.
    •Sharing jokes and gossip with colleagues or friends of the opposite sex, not with your partner.

    •Spending as much time buying the right gift for a colleague of the opposite sex as you do for your spouse.
    •Sharing intimate issues with people other than your partner.

    Read more at Suite101: How Emotional Cheating Starts: 6 Common Mistakes That Lead to Lack of Intimacy & Infidelity http://psychology.suite101.com/artic...#ixzz0r3R3dAOD

    My husband and I both do or have done all the highlighted ones, but I have never considered either one of us to be engaged in an emotional affair because of them. In fact, some of them seem a bit bizarre to me.
    "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."-- Albert Einstein.

  4. #404

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    The key is as OliviaPug outlined, if you think that your spouse would be hurt by your actions and you do it anyway (aka a lot of what you mentioned could upset a spouse) that can be considered emotional cheating. If you continuously flirt, have lunch, dinner, drinks, discuss work problems, share jokes, buy gifts for and share intimate issues with someone other than your spouse with your special friend then it is emotionally cheating. If both partners are fine with all of the above, fine. But some partners can be extremely hurt by those actions and just because one couple thinks it is no big thing...does not mean it is for all.
    ~I am convinced that life is 10% what happens to me and 90% how I react to it.~ (Charles R. Swindoll)

  5. #405
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prancer View Post
    Let's see, Jaime said it nice and loud in front of a lot of people backstage and the conversation continued in front of those people beyond that one comment.
    Seems like something that one would normally chat about privately with friends over coffee or drinks, rather than talking about it in front of everyone, particularly when you are trying to keep your divorce on the hush-hush.

    But then Jamie Sale has never been known for being very tactful (eg. "The whole world knew we were the best"), so I guess it's not surprising that she tends to blurt out whatever comes into her head.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Twilight1 View Post
    The key is as OliviaPug outlined, if you think that your spouse would be hurt by your actions and you do it anyway (aka a lot of what you mentioned could upset a spouse) that can be considered emotional cheating.
    But again, defining cheating that way makes it rather to quantify, doesn't it, because it makes the definition of emotional cheating completely dependent on how a person feels about it, regardless of whether it is reasonable for the person to feel that way? And I believe that your original question was whether or not the stats I cited included emotional cheating; no, and that would be why.
    "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."-- Albert Einstein.

  7. #407

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    But the effects of emotional cheating can not be negated simply because they are hard to quantify (in your words) therein the stats you cited are not true to the reality of cheating spouses.
    ~I am convinced that life is 10% what happens to me and 90% how I react to it.~ (Charles R. Swindoll)

  8. #408
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twilight1 View Post
    But the effects of emotional cheating can not be negated simply because they are hard to quantify (in your words) therein the stats you cited are not true to the reality of cheating spouses.
    They are true for what they are. The stats I cited refer to marital infidelity as it is expressed in sexual behavior.

    If you want to include emotional behavior, then we have this, for what it is worth:

    The statement is backed up by alarming statistics conducted through a national poll. While the findings showed that 15 percent of married women and 25 percent of married men have had sexual affairs, it was also revealed that an additional 20 percent of married couples have been impacted by emotional infidelity.

    http://www.troubledwith.com/Relation...s%3A%20affairs

    Now what that means exactly, I don't know, because the first two statistics are split between men and women, while the third statistics says that an additional 20% of married couples are impacted (whatever that means) by emotional infidelity. That does not give a clear picture.

    But unless there is still some really funky math going on there, you still have a majority of married people not cheating.
    "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."-- Albert Einstein.

  9. #409

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    Sorry! deleted
    Last edited by dinakt; 06-17-2010 at 01:46 AM.

  10. #410
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prancer View Post
    But again, defining cheating that way makes it rather to quantify, doesn't it, because it makes the definition of emotional cheating completely dependent on how a person feels about it, regardless of whether it is reasonable for the person to feel that way?
    It depends on how the questions are asked: if they ask people if they've cheated emotionally, then each person creates a definition to which to react. If they ask people if they've every engaged in XYZ behavior, then they have to worry about whether people are willing to answer it truthfully, +/- whatever they use to deal with mis-understanding, inattention, etc., instead of a wide range of self-definition.

    Hell, you can't even define infidelity in terms of sex alone. Look at what happened when they asked Bill Clinton about having had sex with Monica Lewinsky.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  11. #411
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    Quote Originally Posted by dinakt View Post
    Emotional cheating is a murky ground for me. I lump it all with not being available emotionally, whether with men or women or internet. I think, for example, that me watching GP on Internet in the middle of the day without seeing or hearing anything around me ( which I do every year) might be more dangerous than going out for drinks with some random straight male co- worker. And yet I firmly believe that in marriage one has to let a spouse have their interests and their space, without becoming distant, so every relationship is a delicate balance and prescriptions are usually false.
    It is a murky ground, for sure. A friend of mine has been dabbling in sexually tense situations with a male friend of hers, but she wouldn't physically cheat on her long-time boyfriend, nor would she outright admit that she wants to be with this other guy. Although, she hasn't been completely honest when telling her bf what she's been up to, and claims that it's material for her writing, since it's teaching her how to deal with "difficult situations."

    I think she just likes the attention because it makes her feel attractive, but the runaround on her bf makes me . I'm staying out of it though, and I've made it clear that whatever the fallout is, is totally on her.

    And dinakt, if being singularly obsessed with something other than your SO in his/her presence constitutes emotional cheating, I'm guilty of it every weekend. But my bf is okay with it, he's happy to see me working on something and improving on it. Plus he does the same thing too. IMO, each couple has their way of working out the personal space/interests thing.

  12. #412
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    It depends on how the questions are asked
    Indeed, which is why I said:

    Quote Originally Posted by Prancer View Post
    And so I would find any statistics on that subject suspect unless there was a clear definition of what constituted an emotional affair set for the the particular study doing the measuring.
    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    Hell, you can't even define infidelity in terms of sex alone. Look at what happened when they asked Bill Clinton about having had sex with Monica Lewinsky.
    Nah, he just lied and got caught.

    To me, one of the problems with emotional affairs is that many definitions DO preclude friendships between people of the opposite sex, which I think are possible (I know others don't).

    I like the AAMFT's definition of an emotional affair:

    Emotional affairs differ from platonic friendships in that there is 1) greater emotional intimacy than in the marital relationship, 2) secrecy and deception from the spouse, and 3) sexual chemistry.

    My husband has a very close female friend. They've been friends for years. They've worked together, gotten each other jobs, and helped each other out in all kinds of ways. They have lunch together regularly, they gossip about people and work issues I know nothing about, they share some jokes I'm not in on, etc. Some wives would consider that an emotional affair. I don't, mainly because it is exactly the same friendship he has with his male friends--because it doesn't meet any of the above criteria.

    And to me, that's why it is difficult to quantify an emotional affair as one that hurts the spouse. If that relationship doesn't hurt me, it isn't one. If he were married to someone else and the relationship hurt her, it would be. Yet the relationship would be exactly the same.

    At the same time, I have a female friend whose husband hovers over her all the time and gets extremely upset if she has perfectly innocent conversations with a men. He refused to let her work for years because he didn't want her meeting men at the office, When finances forced the situation, he was suspicious of every breath she took and accused her of getting involved with every man she came in contact with.

    If you ask him, he will tell you that she had many emotional affairs because she flirts all the time and it hurts him. But his reaction isn't reasonable.

    So unless the term "emotional affair" is specifically defined, yes, I think it would be difficult to quantify--because it is such a subjective term.
    "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."-- Albert Einstein.

  13. #413
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prancer View Post
    If you ask him, he will tell you that she had many emotional affairs because she flirts all the time and it hurts him. But his reaction isn't reasonable.
    If you ask me (which you didn't), he is overly controlling, and may have crossed the line to emotional abuse.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  14. #414
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    If you ask me (which you didn't), he is overly controlling, and may have crossed the line to emotional abuse.
    ITA. I wouldn't put up with it for five minutes. But I think she finds if flattering that he "just loves her so much."
    "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."-- Albert Einstein.

  15. #415
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prancer View Post
    ITA. I wouldn't put up with it for five minutes. But I think she finds if flattering that he "just loves her so much."

  16. #416

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    Quote Originally Posted by Prancer View Post

    So unless the term "emotional affair" is specifically defined, yes, I think it would be difficult to quantify--because it is such a subjective term.
    Like figure skating is subjective...but still judged on specific elements...
    ~I am convinced that life is 10% what happens to me and 90% how I react to it.~ (Charles R. Swindoll)

  17. #417
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twilight1 View Post
    Like figure skating is subjective...but still judged on specific elements...
    Sure. You can quantify the number of elements and you can quantify the technical quality of those elements, but you can't quantify the emotional affect a particular program has on the people responding to it--hence a lot of more heated arguments on this board.
    "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."-- Albert Einstein.

  18. #418

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    Quote Originally Posted by Prancer View Post
    Sure. You can quantify the number of elements and you can quantify the technical quality of those elements, but you can't quantify the emotional affect a particular program has on the people responding to it--hence a lot of more heated arguments on this board.
    I'm adopting this as my motto.

  19. #419

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    These two rival Scott Hamilton as the most annoying people in skating. They probally drove each other crazy arguing over who is the best at everything The only one I feel sorry for is their child.

  20. #420
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dilng View Post
    These two rival Scott Hamilton as the most annoying people in skating. They probally drove each other crazy arguing over who is the best at everything The only one I feel sorry for is their child.


    I can understand why one would call Hamilton annoying - his over the top gushing commentary is enough to make even the sanest person want to up chuck.

    However, I can't understand why you would think that of Sale and Pelletier - what do they do that makes them annoying?

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