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  1. #241
    Skating Pairs with Drew
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pratfall View Post
    And for those who seem to be advocating staying together for the sake of the child - It's much healthier for the child if they're not witnessing Mummy and Daddy being put out with each other all the time.

    If only it was that easy. Each situation is different. Much depends on the resilience of the child and the ability of the parents to function like adults. We also know that there are certain stages in a child's development that are much more likely to create problems if separation and divorce occur during them. As a social worker/therapist I see it all.

    http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/fcs/pdfs/fcs482.pdf

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    I don't get why S&P decided to have a child amongst all of this breaking up and getting back together and apparent cheating on each other.

    They should have just gone their separate ways without bringing a child into it. Because we live in the media age, the child will probably have to hear a lot of gossip about his parents as he grows up.

  3. #243

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    Quote Originally Posted by RD View Post
    Umm...dare I say this, but- from my (male) perspective- I'd say David is the one that could do better in this situation
    Oh yeah, Mr. Can't-Keep-It-Zipped is worthy of a princess, no doubt.
    Charter member of the "We Always Believed in Ashley" Club and the "We Believe in Ricky" Club
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  4. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmscfdcsu View Post
    If only it was that easy. Each situation is different. Much depends on the resilience of the child and the ability of the parents to function like adults. We also know that there are certain stages in a child's development that are much more likely to create problems if separation and divorce occur during them. As a social worker/therapist I see it all.

    http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/fcs/pdfs/fcs482.pdf
    I agree divorce is not that easy like some claim. It's not really any easier being a kid in a divorce than if your parents are together but arguing. I think it's harder having your parents divorced. You can't see your mom and dad as much as you should. As a child who has gone thru my parents divorce it was horrible and now even in adulthood it still affects my life and always will. It's not fun having to decide what parent I want to spend time with for holidays and you really feel cheated out on memories you could of had. I find divorce to be selfish. It's better for the kid to work out your problems no matter what.

  5. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmscfdcsu View Post
    If only it was that easy. Each situation is different. Much depends on the resilience of the child and the ability of the parents to function like adults. We also know that there are certain stages in a child's development that are much more likely to create problems if separation and divorce occur during them. As a social worker/therapist I see it all.

    http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/fcs/pdfs/fcs482.pdf
    And that link really points out on what most never talk about and that's the loss of finances you had before and friends. Also having to pack your bags every other week for visitation wasn't fun either. You have no choice in it all whether you want to leave your home constantly. Of course every situation is different.

  6. #246
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    yes, mmsc-... I should have qualified that by saying in some cases. However, I personally know couples who while divorced ,are dedicated to raising their children without disparaging the other parent ,being equally involved in the child's life ( some managing whole family outings and even camping trips,etc.) and generally, determined to do the best job they possibly can. It's rather silly for us to assume the worst at this stage of the game and at a far remove.
    Last edited by Pratfall; 06-07-2010 at 12:04 AM.

  7. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyliefan View Post
    Oh yeah, Mr. Can't-Keep-It-Zipped is worthy of a princess, no doubt.
    Is David really that big of a cheater? Some people here make it sound like he is Tiger Woods. Do we know for a fact that he can't keep it zipped, or is this just something that's happened a couple times?

  8. #248

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    Quote Originally Posted by SkateElectric View Post
    So if David is the Canadian Morozov...does that make Tessa the Canadian Pasha????
    She would have to die her hair blonde.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

  9. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by DickButtonFan View Post
    I agree divorce is not that easy like some claim. It's not really any easier being a kid in a divorce than if your parents are together but arguing. I think it's harder having your parents divorced. You can't see your mom and dad as much as you should. As a child who has gone thru my parents divorce it was horrible and now even in adulthood it still affects my life and always will. It's not fun having to decide what parent I want to spend time with for holidays and you really feel cheated out on memories you could of had. I find divorce to be selfish. It's better for the kid to work out your problems no matter what.
    No matter what?

    My mother was a selfish, alcoholic serial cheater who drove my dad into such sheer heartbreak and depression that one day he just up and forgot the past five years of his life and came down the stairs two years after the divorce to ask me why I looked so old and where my mother was. I was 13. It took him several hours to revert back from his momentary amnesia, and he was never the same after. And yet my mother will insist that the problems with the relationship and the subsequent divorce were entirely his fault.

    She was crazy. And the number of angry, violent fights I witnessed in the years leading up to the divorce grew in number and craziness throughout. I wish, I wish so dearly, that they had divorced years earlier, at the first sign of trouble, and that he hadn't tried so desperately to do anything in his power to keep her in his life because he was so completely in love with her. But that didn't happen, and I got to witness all the terribleness that came with them trying to "work it out no matter what."

    And yeah, the years following of trying to decide where to go for the holidays and switching between houses and schedules and rules every Sunday and eventually having to decide to stay the hell away from my batshit crazy mother as often as possible weren't fun, either. But I knew then, at age 11, and I know now that it was a much, much better choice. There are no easy answers in this, and nothing about this sort of situation is black and white no matter how many people may try to claim otherwise.

  10. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by Screenie View Post
    So I'm the only one envious of Tessa? :-)
    Of course I'm envious of her having a bite of that beefy hunk.

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    Obviously, if one of the spouses is an alcoholic, divorce would be FAR better for the child than the parents sticking it out together. Children of an alcoholic parent carry emotional baggage throughout their lives.

    That wouldn't seem to be the case for S/P's child. In any case, the child is too young to know the difference between a home with two parents vs a home with one. But with both parents traveling all the time to skate, the child won't exactly have a "normal" home life anyway....

  12. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pratfall View Post
    And for those who seem to be advocating staying together for the sake of the child - It's much healthier for the child if they're not witnessing Mummy and Daddy being put out with each other ( or worse ) all the time.
    Maybe; maybe not. Much depends on whether the child DOES see the parents being put out with each other all the time.

    Going by many of the reactions in this thread, you'd think that there were two kinds of marriages--happy ones and ones where people fight all the time while their children are torn apart by the anger. But there's an awful lot of ground in between; I believe there are studies that indicate that most marriages that end in divorce (roughly two thirds) are actually low-conflict marriages in which one or both parties were more dissatisfied than angry. And in those instances, divorce is indeed very hard on the child, and it is not necessarily better for the kids if the parents divorce.

    http://www.utexas.edu/features/2006/divorce/index.html

    If the parents are hostile to one another, then yes, it's healthier for the children if the marriage ends--IF that puts an end to parental conflict. If it continues, there isn't much difference except that exposure level is usually lower. But children of low-conflict divorces actually appear to have more longterm problems than do children from low-conflict homes where the parents stay together in spite of not being happy. This is well documented if you care to look it all up.

    I have no idea what level of conflict Jamie and David experience and my point really isn't about them, but is more about this rather glib "It's better for the kids if the parents divorce," because there's quite a bit of evidence that this isn't necessarily so.
    "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."-- Albert Einstein.

  13. #253
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    Michi - Brave of you to post that.

    I was going to say, for every son or daughter who regrets their parent divorce, there's probably another who thinks it was the best thing that could have happened . And how sad for the ones who have to say, "You stayed through that misery for my sake ?",and sad for the parents who caused such guilt ...

    Prancer..yours is the point I was originally trying to make.I was reacting to the instantaneous, Poor little boy ! why can't hey try to make it work for his sake ?' We have no idea what their situation is. It's not necessarily a disaster for the little boy , and it's not necessarily a piece of cake either. Maybe this is their best attempt at making something work. Obviously when even J & D's careers center around their partnership/relationship this isn't a moment's whim. Good luck to them ( sincerely ), I hope they can make it work.
    Last edited by Pratfall; 06-07-2010 at 12:33 AM. Reason: Adding on

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    Good points, Prancer. There's a lot more nuance to these situations than we realize sometimes.
    Charter member of the "We Always Believed in Ashley" Club and the "We Believe in Ricky" Club
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  15. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Observer View Post
    Actually, I believe what was reported on FSU earlier this year was that they were separated, not divorced, and that we wouldn't hear about it for a while.
    There are other places where skating rumors exist besides FSU.
    Actual bumper sticker series: Jesus is my co-pilot. Satan is my financial advisor. Budha is my therapist. L. Ron Hubbard owes me $50.

  16. #256

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    I'm really confused by the fact that some people here seem to be absolutely convinced that Jamie and David never even tried to make it work and that if only they'd just stopped being selfish and tried a little bit they could have made it work. We don't know anything about their relationship. It is completely unfair to simply assume that they did not make their marriage work. Just because you try doesn't mean that you will succeed.

  17. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prancer View Post
    But children of low-conflict divorces actually appear to have more longterm problems than do children from low-conflict homes where the parents stay together in spite of not being happy. This is well documented if you care to look it all up.
    It is also well documented that the younger the child is when the divorce occurs the better adjusted the child will be be over the long term. Using Jesse for example, the separation occurred when he was just over a year old so he will not know any different than his parents living apart. That will be his life as he knows it.

    Children are very intuitive and pick up on even low levels of marital satisfaction as well so it is not as if a child has no ill effects when their household involves an unhappy marriage. Either way, there will be issues for the child.

    Quote Originally Posted by Prancer View Post
    I have no idea what level of conflict Jamie and David experience and my point really isn't about them, but is more about this rather glib "It's better for the kids if the parents divorce," because there's quite a bit of evidence that this isn't necessarily so.
    It definitely is not a cut and dry issue but there is also evidence that shows it is better for the children if the parents divorce. Like most issues, academic scholars can argue back and forth debating which is better for the child. It comes down to which side of the fence you fall on, and of course individual experience, which determines how you view a situation.

  18. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    Of course I'm envious of her having a bite of that beefy hunk.
    He's hunky, but what's the point of being with a man if he's a cheater?

  19. #259
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    i love to skate /\ I have a lot to say, don't I ? ..you'll get me accused of plagiarism..


    Observer - can you hum afew bars of ,

    Don't save your kisses, pass them around
    You'll find my reason is logically sound
    Who's gonna know that you passed them around
    A hundred years from today...

    come to think of it ,that might make a good show number.
    Last edited by Pratfall; 06-07-2010 at 01:05 AM.

  20. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by i love to skate View Post
    It is also well documented that the younger the child is when the divorce occurs the better adjusted the child will be be over the long term. Using Jesse for example, the separation occurred when he was just over a year old so he will not know any different than his parents living apart. That will be his life as he knows it.
    And again, I was not addressing the issue of Jamie and David's situation, but rather the broader issue of whether divorce is always better for children of unhappy parents.

    Quote Originally Posted by i love to skate View Post
    Children are very intuitive and pick up on even low levels of marital satisfaction as well so it is not as if a child has no ill effects when their household involves an unhappy marriage.
    Or maybe people just like to tell themselves that. It seems to me that most children are most concerned with their own level of happiness and are only concerned about their parents' happiness as it directly affects the children.

    That is not selfishness, BTW; it's developmentally appropriate for most years of childhood. And it is also supported by a lot of evidence that says that the most important element in a child's future adult relationships is not the parents' relationships with each other, but the closeness (or lack thereof) of the parents' relationship with the child.

    Quote Originally Posted by i love to skate View Post
    It definitely is not a cut and dry issue but there is also evidence that shows it is better for the children if the parents divorce.
    Yes, as I said, there are situations where it is definitely better.

    Quote Originally Posted by i love to skate View Post
    Like most issues, academic scholars can argue back and forth debating which is better for the child. It comes down to which side of the fence you fall on, and of course individual experience, which determines how you view a situation.
    The entire purpose of doing studies is to eliminate the issue of individual experience and opinion, and analyze evidence objectively to reach a conclusion. Obviously, a study cannot predict individual behaviors or outcomes; OTOH, individual experience cannot be used to determine any sort of norm. It is no more valid to say that divorce is a good thing for children because I'm glad that my parents got divorced than it is to say that it's a bad thing for children because my parents' divorce was terrible for me; both experiences are equally valid, but neither can used to determine an overall conclusion about the issue.
    "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."-- Albert Einstein.

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