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  1. #81
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    I'm sure there was some political push to put Paul on the Olympic team but why?

  2. #82
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    My feeling is that it was Wylie's tenth year at Sr. Nationals, he made one Olympic team, he was the best stylist in the world, and that the third spot didn't matter. The USFS probably figured they were covered with Eldredge (reigning bronze medalist) or Bowman (reigning pewter medalist) from the previous Worlds. Wylie was gifted it for his years of service, but it certainly wasn't due to thoughts that he had podium potential. And when Wylie was 'on', he was a stunning skater. Mitchell at that point when he was 'on' was good, not spectacular. But Mitchell landed his jumps consistently and was at that point a better competitor.
    Basically it was a throw away third spot, and they went for the crowd favorite and journeyman. It just happened to be a brilliant decision when Albertville came around.

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by IceKween View Post
    My feeling is that it was Wylie's tenth year at Sr. Nationals, he made one Olympic team, he was the best stylist in the world, and that the third spot didn't matter. The USFS probably figured they were covered with Eldredge (reigning bronze medalist) or Bowman (reigning pewter medalist) from the previous Worlds. Wylie was gifted it for his years of service, but it certainly wasn't due to thoughts that he had podium potential. And when Wylie was 'on', he was a stunning skater. Mitchell at that point when he was 'on' was good, not spectacular. But Mitchell landed his jumps consistently and was at that point a better competitor.
    Basically it was a throw away third spot, and they went for the crowd favorite and journeyman. It just happened to be a brilliant decision when Albertville came around.
    I think that was it too. They figured Bowman and Eldredge were the only 2 with a real shot to medal in Albertville anyway. Even with them the U.S were on shaky ground as neither was really a gold contender, and neither was certain to medal with Browning, Petrenko, Barna, and young Urmanov. That plus Bowman hadnt landed a triple axel in awhile, and Eldredge was coming back from an injury. Still those were the main 2 they were pinning U.S hopes on to atleast keep the U.S on the podium after winning gold at the last 2 Olympics.

    The 3rd spot really didnt matter so they went with the sentimental old man.

  4. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by IceKween View Post
    My feeling is that it was Wylie's tenth year at Sr. Nationals, he made one Olympic team, he was the best stylist in the world, and that the third spot didn't matter. The USFS probably figured they were covered with Eldredge (reigning bronze medalist) or Bowman (reigning pewter medalist) from the previous Worlds. Wylie was gifted it for his years of service, but it certainly wasn't due to thoughts that he had podium potential. And when Wylie was 'on', he was a stunning skater. Mitchell at that point when he was 'on' was good, not spectacular. But Mitchell landed his jumps consistently and was at that point a better competitor.
    Basically it was a throw away third spot, and they went for the crowd favorite and journeyman. It just happened to be a brilliant decision when Albertville came around.
    Exactly. What a bonus for USFS when he "delivered"!

    It changed/made Paul's career.
    What a pleasure that was.

  5. #85

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    It was amazing. Even if Paul weren't my favorite, I'd love the story.
    Charter member of the "We Always Believed in Ashley" Club and the "We Believe in Ricky" Club
    Old, lonely, pathos-hungry, and extremely gullible

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    I think that was it too. They figured Bowman and Eldredge were the only 2 with a real shot to medal in Albertville anyway. Even with them the U.S were on shaky ground as neither was really a gold contender, and neither was certain to medal with Browning, Petrenko, Barna, and young Urmanov. That plus Bowman hadnt landed a triple axel in awhile, and Eldredge was coming back from an injury. Still those were the main 2 they were pinning U.S hopes on to atleast keep the U.S on the podium after winning gold at the last 2 Olympics.

    The 3rd spot really didnt matter so they went with the sentimental old man.
    Re Bowman: That guy had a load of talent and was the most decorated of the 3 US men in Albertville [Silver in '89 Worlds; Bronze in '90 Worlds]. He also staged a comeback of sorts at '91 SA with that great LP [I think he won beating Petr Barna, landed a 3x, but not sure. I remember Scott Hamilton going nuts over his performance]. I think the TPTB in the US were still pulling for him to finally break through. His story is really one of talent wasted, one of the biggest in US skating history, rivalling Bobek and Harding.

  7. #87

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    Quote Originally Posted by olympic View Post
    Re Bowman: That guy had a load of talent and was the most decorated of the 3 US men in Albertville [Silver in '89 Worlds; Bronze in '90 Worlds]. He also staged a comeback of sorts at '91 SA with that great LP [I think he won beating Petr Barna, landed a 3x, but not sure. I remember Scott Hamilton going nuts over his performance].
    I just happen to have rewatched 1991 Skate America recently. Bowman did win the event. He stunned the commentary team by landing 3A3T (3T a bit underrotated/step out), 3F and 2A in the original program; he finished second to Barna in that part of the competition. He won the free skate by landing 3Z, 3A2T, 3F3T (3T two-footed), 2A, 3Lp, Bauer-3T, 3S2Lp, and 3F2T. Yes, he was slow across the ice and visibly winded, but that jump list was incredibly impressive for late October, never mind that Bowman was there without a coach (Cranston was annoyed that he hadn't been doing run-throughs) and was out of shape.

  8. #88
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    I always find it hard to evaluate the exact talent level of skaters like Bowman and Bobek since they never work hard enough for long enough to even see what they are really capable of. Beyond knowing that they are extremely talented whether they were talented enough to have regularly been beating people like Kwan, Lipinski, Browning, and Petrenko is really anyones guess. Harding is an exception in that she did have actual periods she was working hard enough to guage her amazing talent which was underappreciated and unrewarded in her youth due to figures and the protocal of skating at the time, and which when unleashed in her adult years was for sure enough to compete with and even beat the likes of Ito and Yamaguchi.

    The best performances I ever saw of Bowman did not have the technical difficulty to beat either Browning or Petrenko at their best though. I didnt see Skate America though. Barna didnt even have a triple axel and was only trying the quad the last few months of his career (rarely if ever managed it cleanly) so if you were one of the top guys in the World and just pulled off a triple axel on one foot and the rest clean you should be ok to beat him. Barna was a judges favorite though and was placed over Bowman at the 91 Worlds when Barna didnt even try a triple axel, no triple-triple (he is capable of a triple lutz-triple toe but didnt do it), and some small mistakes; whereas Bowman fell on a quad try but skated clean otherwise with a clean but shaky triple axel. They always tried to hold Barna up in the long program even though he never skated a long program that well. He nearly won the silver or Wylie at the 92 Games and the bronze over Eldredge at the 91 Worlds even though both those guys skated far better with far more content than he did.

  9. #89

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    3A Bownman???? . . . I have to see this.

    ETA: I am in tears. Secretly I thought Frank Carroll could not teach a 3A, but, although he had been with Toller for that year, Chris was built from the ground up by Frank starting at age 6, unlike Michelle Kwan and Evan Lysacek, and Chris was clearly using Frank's jump technique . . . and Chris was so out of shape

    Christopher Bowman 1991 Skate America SP . . . Does anybody recognize the freakin' music

    Christopher Bowman 1991 Skate America LP . . . 3S-2Lp What the hell?
    Last edited by bardtoob; 06-08-2010 at 05:24 AM.

  10. #90

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    Quote Originally Posted by bardtoob View Post
    Christopher Bowman 1991 Skate America SP . . . Does anybody recognize the freakin' music
    Rach 3 - third movement. I always think of Chris Bowman, not Michelle Kwan, when I listen to Rach 3.

  11. #91
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    Yeah, whenever I hear this I go back to Bowman. I just wish that Bowman had more precision in his presentation and choreography. He had charisma galore, but it was always so unrefined. He was capable of it.

  12. #92

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    Quote Originally Posted by IceKween View Post
    He had charisma galore, but it was always so unrefined.
    Not always "so unrefined."

    Christopher Bowman 1987 US Nationals Exhibition

    This is how I like to remember him.

  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by pollyanna View Post
    Not always "so unrefined."

    Christopher Bowman 1987 US Nationals Exhibition

    This is how I like to remember him.
    Wow, thanks for that. Clearly, the era of Bowman, Wylie, Boitano, Mitchell, was a golden one at U.S. Nationals. Such a pity only one could win and not all could compete at Worlds and Olympics.

    Christopher Bowman ... even more appreciated and championed in death than in life (could it be because we can remember him now without the possibility of being disappointed by his excesses?) I remember thinking at the time of his death that everyone was mourning the Christopher Bowman we remembered on the ice, rather than the Christopher Bowman who died in a seedy motel. The Bowman we remember died long before his official death. But inside he was always the same person. Would it have made any difference if he had truly known how much he was loved? No one is to blame ... the tough stuff of life happens and some people aren't able to find a way through it, or allow others to help them find their way.

  14. #94
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    The 90s for U.S men was an intriguing time period. So many talented men but for wildly varying reasons none of Bowman, Eldredge, Wylie, Galindo, Mitchell, Scott Davis ever fulfilled their full potential. Eldredge did the best of that group but even he never came close to being a Boitano like Champion.

  15. #95
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    I'd have to say Galindo did fulfill his potential at 1996 Nationals and 1996 Worlds. And his partnership with Kristi was very successful, especially at the Nationals level. After his triumphs in 1996, I believe it was suggested to Rudy that he retire the eligible ranks.

    Eldredge also had a very successful career, IMO. No fault of his that the judges were quad obsessed during his later career, and refused to give him full credit where credit was due for his stellar performances sans quad.

    Wylie definitely achieved success at the penultimate moments of his eligible career ..., and he couldn't have asked for a better pro career. I've always thought that Paul should have won U.S. Nats in 1990 and 1991, but the judges were more enamored of the up-and-coming, immature Eldredge, who at that point had great jumps but little else.

  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by aftershocks View Post
    I'd have to say Galindo did fulfill his potential at 1996 Nationals and 1996 Worlds. And his partnership with Kristi was very successful, especially at the Nationals level. After his triumphs in 1996, I believe it was suggested to Rudy that he retire the eligible ranks.

    Eldredge also had a very successful career, IMO. No fault of his that the judges were quad obsessed during his later career, and refused to give him full credit where credit was due for his stellar performances sans quad.

    Wylie definitely achieved success at the penultimate moments of his eligible career ..., and he couldn't have asked for a better pro career. I've always thought that Paul should have won U.S. Nats in 1990 and 1991, but the judges were more enamored of the up-and-coming, immature Eldredge, who at that point had great jumps but little else.
    I agree with many of your points. Paul, to me is still one of the most artistic men's skaters, ever! Rudy was fabulous at 1996 US Nationals, and deserved the win (and this is coming from a big Todd fan). I was very pleased that Rudy won the bronze medal at Worlds that year. I have been a Todd fan since the early 1990's. Back in the early 1990's, I'll admit that I was cheering him on as one of the new US guys, fully realizing that his skating at that point didn't have the artistry of Paul's. However, I think it is very fair to say that Todd developed his artistry quite nicely from the mid 1990's on. His "Chaplin" program of 1993/1994 was an early indication that he was capable of doing a fun program with personality too (I would love for him to revisit that program as a pro). It wasn't a revolutionary development in artistry, but an evolving one. I hope that helps to explain why I think he has become quite a talented "balanced" skater, despite the lack of a consistent quad.

    Whatever the case, I am happy for all three guys, that they have had successful careers in figure skating.

  17. #97

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    Quote Originally Posted by aftershocks View Post
    I've always thought that Paul should have won U.S. Nats in 1990 and 1991, but the judges were more enamored of the up-and-coming, immature Eldredge, who at that point had great jumps but little else.
    In 1990 Eldredge also had the school figures.

    Of course by 1991 that didn't matter any more, and the judges would have known in 1990 that they wouldn't matter for the future.

    Wylie won the LP at 1990 Nationals.

    Wylie got a 6.0 in the SP but came in 2nd there because Eldredge had more content -- steps as well as triple axel.

  18. #98
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    Wylie should have won the 1990 Nationals no doubt IMO. Yeah Todd did a triple axel in the short and Paul didnt. The judges didnt seem to care though that Jill did only a triple toe combo to the triple lutz combos of Harding and Kristi in the womens short program in 1989. I guess they choose their spots where difficulty matters more and when it doesnt.

    In 1991 he did not deserve to win though. He was lucky to even make the team over Mark that year, like he was in 1992. He missed in the short program and had his share of mistakes.

  19. #99
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    ITA with your points, paskatefan. Todd seems to be a very kind, gracious gentleman (I once met him in person, and I was impressed by his genuine appreciation and kindness toward fans). He definitely did find his own style over the course of his career, and I believe he should have won Worlds more than once. What a great moment it was when he placed his gold medal at '96 Worlds around his mother's neck.

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by aftershocks View Post
    ITA with your points, paskatefan. Todd seems to be a very kind, gracious gentleman (I once met him in person, and I was impressed by his genuine appreciation and kindness toward fans). He definitely did find his own style over the course of his career, and I believe he should have won Worlds more than once. What a great moment it was when he placed his gold medal at '96 Worlds around his mother's neck.
    Trust me, he is kind and gracious! When he placed his World gold medal on his mom is still one of my most favorite moments in figure skating (along with the "Battle of the Brians" and Midori Ito's free skate at the 1988 Calgary Olympics).

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