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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polymer Bob View Post
    Well, let's discuss "big talk". The USFSA put out some "big talk" for a year and a half on how certain international events would factor into the Olympic team .... not just Nationals. Ashley was the only U.S. lady to make the Final. How much did that factor in? It seems not much? Could making the Final be considered worth 4 more points at Nationals?

    In all 4 disciplines, National results were the only factor.
    I agree with your point. Why even have a list of other criteriae if only Nationals matters? HOWEVER, imo Nagasu gave the winning performance at Nationals but got dinged (unfairly in some instances) on UR's which only seemed to be a political move for Flatt to go into the Olys with the National title to maybe boost her scores for her boring skating. Yes, Ashley was 4 points behind Nagasu at Nationals, but had Nagasu been scored properly, as she was at the Olympics and Worlds, she would have walked away with the title and blown away Flatt, let alone Wagner.

    Were there any other questionable calls. I don't remember Keanu and Rockne setting the world on fire for the last year, so they needed to earn it at Nats. But did anyone else make GPF and not the Oly team?

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by IceKween View Post
    But did anyone else make GPF and not the Oly team?
    No.
    I can call the moon a pear, but it doesn't make it so. -- kwanfan1818

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by RD View Post
    I've said this before, but the big thing she needs to do is strengthen her SP. Time after time she sabotages herself, digs herself a hole that she has to climb out of...this proved to be the difference at Nationals.
    Ashley is a strong free skater. I felt sorry for her at last year's Junior Worlds. Caroline was 8 places beneath her after the short, yet finished above her. That must have hurt. Then there was her heart problem.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polymer Bob View Post
    Ashley is a strong free skater. Then there was her heart problem.
    Que?

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by IceKween View Post
    Que?
    You didn't know? There wasn't much fuss made of it anyway.... But anyway, during Junior Worlds, she found that her heart was beating very fast and they found that it was because of stress and dehydration.

  6. #26
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    Wagner, among the women who will begin competition Thursday at the U.S. figure skating championships in Spokane, Wash., developed heart palpitations while in Sofia, Bulgaria, last February for the junior world championships.

    USA TODAY

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by caseyedwards View Post
    Wagner, among the women who will begin competition Thursday at the U.S. figure skating championships in Spokane, Wash., developed heart palpitations while in Sofia, Bulgaria, last February for the junior world championships.

    USA TODAY
    Is that permanent or has her heart palpitations been taken care of?

  8. #28
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    Can she not take beta blockers for that, or are they banned substances?

    I cannot imagine how a beta blocker could ever help a freeskate, maybe a SP. But she'd never get through a freeskate with medical load of BB.

    Is it nerves? Eating disorder?

  9. #29
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    "Once I got home, I went straight to the doctor and made sure that everything was OK structurally and I wasn't really in any danger," said Wagner, who was born in Germany as the daughter of a U.S. Army officer.

    "Now, I just have to stay hydrated, and I have to stay calm."


    http://www.usatoday.com/sports/olymp...8-wagner_N.htm

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by IceKween View Post
    I agree with your point. Why even have a list of other criteriae if only Nationals matters? HOWEVER, imo Nagasu gave the winning performance at Nationals but got dinged (unfairly in some instances) on UR's which only seemed to be a political move for Flatt to go into the Olys with the National title to maybe boost her scores for her boring skating. Yes, Ashley was 4 points behind Nagasu at Nationals, but had Nagasu been scored properly, as she was at the Olympics and Worlds, she would have walked away with the title and blown away Flatt, let alone Wagner.
    Not to beat this dead horse (again) but I agree- except for the "political" comment. Then again, people were arguing that Flatt should have gotten the title last year instead of Czisny. I tell you, the judging at Nats (at least in the ladies' event) has been sketchy and controversial the past two years...maybe it was always like that but it's only more obvious now that there is no clear leader...

    Not sure what the point is here...do people think that because of her GPF qualification, Wagner should have been given the ticket? I can understand if she won GPF, or even medaled, but she merely made the cut. Besides, getting into the GPF is as much about the draw you get as it is how well you skate...I think the USFS knows this. Wagner controlled her own fate at Nats...it was unfortunate that we had only 2 spots and not 3, or this would be a non-issue. Of course it was going to be very competitive and someone would go home very disappointed. If it wasn't Wagner, then it would be Nagasu, or Flatt, etc. (I'm not including Zhang or Czisny because they took themselves out of contention early and weren't "close but not quite there")

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by IceKween View Post
    HOWEVER, imo Nagasu gave the winning performance at Nationals but got dinged (unfairly in some instances) on UR's which only seemed to be a political move for Flatt to go into the Olys with the National title to maybe boost her scores for her boring skating.
    In my opinion being the US champion has not boosted anyone´s scores either in men or in ladies discipline for quite some time.... It does not matter whether you are the US champion or not, the only thing that matters is, how you skate in major international events according to the judges.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by RD View Post
    Not sure what the point is here...do people think that because of her GPF qualification, Wagner should have been given the ticket? I can understand if she won GPF, or even medaled, but she merely made the cut. Besides, getting into the GPF is as much about the draw you get as it is how well you skate...I think the USFS knows this.
    Hmmm, maybe sometimes it's about the luck of the draw, but I wouldn't say so in this case. I wouldn't say Wagner had easier GPs than the rest of the US girls, and it could be argued her's were harder.

    I don't know, GPF is a big deal and it should hold more weight. In fact, I long been in favour of a rule change that anyone who medals at the GPF should get an automatic bye to Olympics/worlds, and thus, does not need to use up his/her country's spot.

    Just think, if this rule was in place we'd have had Yukari and another Japanese girl at the Olympics, and the American men could have sent Bradley and Rippon. And Kim and Brent could have gone in dance...*sigh*

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by psycho View Post
    I don't know, GPF is a big deal and it should hold more weight. In fact, I long been in favour of a rule change that anyone who medals at the GPF should get an automatic bye to Olympics/worlds, and thus, does not need to use up his/her country's spot.

    Just think, if this rule was in place we'd have had Yukari and another Japanese girl at the Olympics, and the American men could have sent Bradley and Rippon. And Kim and Brent could have gone in dance...*sigh*
    That makes a lot of sense. Though the USFSA will certainly not like it ...... nor any other federation. It means that superstars no longer have to show up to their own national championships.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polymer Bob View Post
    Well, let's discuss "big talk". The USFSA put out some "big talk" for a year and a half on how certain international events would factor into the Olympic team .... not just Nationals. Ashley was the only U.S. lady to make the Final. How much did that factor in? It seems not much? Could making the Final be considered worth 4 more points at Nationals?

    In all 4 disciplines, National results were the only factor.
    From Wagner to USFS complaints?

    There was a discussion before nationals at GS on this. The way that discussion sounded to me was that nationals has long been a big deal not just to USFS but also to the athletes who want their shot on the world or Oly team (not to be taken away by a GPF medalist), and the athletes who represented the other skaters at USFS also want it that way. What you want to change is never going to change, unless people directly involved --not fans--want them.

    I seem to remember that Inoue/Baldwin, despite not making the team, agreed publicly that nationals should be the deciding factor.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by IceKween View Post
    I agree with your point. Why even have a list of other criteriae if only Nationals matters? HOWEVER, imo Nagasu gave the winning performance at Nationals but got dinged (unfairly in some instances) on UR's which only seemed to be a political move for Flatt to go into the Olys with the National title to maybe boost her scores for her boring skating. Yes, Ashley was 4 points behind Nagasu at Nationals, but had Nagasu been scored properly, as she was at the Olympics and Worlds, she would have walked away with the title and blown away Flatt, let alone Wagner.
    No off-season is complete without the nationals conspiracy discussion.

    I was sitting up in the rafters at nationals, and even with that distance, Nagasu's uRs were visible to me. Flatt, OTOH, looked better live in person that on TV. And I'm no Flatt fan.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by jlai View Post
    There was a discussion before nationals at GS on this. The way that discussion sounded to me was that nationals has long been a big deal not just to USFS but also to the athletes who want their shot on the world or Oly team (not to be taken away by a GPF medalist), and the athletes who represented the other skaters at USFS also want it that way. What you want to change is never going to change, unless people directly involved --not fans--want them.

    I seem to remember that Inoue/Baldwin, despite not making the team, agreed publicly that nationals should be the deciding factor.
    And I can accept it that way. What I have little respect for is saying one thing and doing another. If Nationals is the deciding factor, why did the USFSA say differently?

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polymer Bob View Post
    And I can accept it that way. What I have little respect for is saying one thing and doing another. If Nationals is the deciding factor, why did the USFSA say differently?
    It was all discussed in that gs thread...

    Anyway, more than 3 spots per country is politically infeasible for the Olympics.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polymer Bob View Post
    And I can accept it that way. What I have little respect for is saying one thing and doing another. If Nationals is the deciding factor, why did the USFSA say differently?
    I think they just say that incase the results go completely haywire at nationals for some reason. So I mean, say potentially Flatt had the flu and skated terribly, Mirai was having an off night with her jumps, and Czisny had a clean short but her usual mediocrity of a 3 triple LP and Gao went clean so that in the end, Gao was 1st and Czisny 2nd. In that case, the USFSA might not have sent either girl to the Olympics or may have only sent one of them because the results were so unexpected and the people who placedwell did so unconvincingly, or in Gao's case, as a very young, inexperienced skater just out of junior. Rather than have Gao and Czisny go and risk them placing 12th and 15th, the USFSA could reason to send Flatt knowing that she is sick so long as she gets healthy in time. It's all just a safety net I think.

  19. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Polymer Bob View Post
    The USFSA put out some "big talk" for a year and a half on how certain international events would factor into the Olympic team .... not just Nationals.
    I think it's more accurate to say that some fans put out the "big talk" more than USFS ever did.

    Quote Originally Posted by Polymer Bob View Post
    If Nationals is the deciding factor, why did the USFSA say differently?
    According to this post in the FSU Archives, there was a legal reason for the change:
    This rule change was discussed by the USFS board of directors at Governing Council [in 2008], it was actually changed due to the USOC [U.S. Olympic Committee]. The gist of it is, if USFS kept the rule saying that the US National Champion was assured a place on the Olympic team it automatically becomes an "Olympic Trial" event in which case the USOC automatically becomes involved in not only the running of the event, but also is eligible to receive profits from the event. Hence the reason for the change.
    ETA: Back to Ashley...
    Quote Originally Posted by Indra486 View Post
    Is that permanent or has her heart palpitations been taken care of?
    That particular incident at 2009 Junior Worlds reportedly was due to stress/nerves and is not a chronic or serious medical condition, AFAIK.
    Last edited by Sylvia; 05-30-2010 at 06:25 PM.

  20. #40

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    IIRC, it took a lot longer for the women's team to be announced in Spokane than it did for any other discipline. I'm guessing Ashley's record that season was being taken into account, but ultimately wasn't enough.

    The SP is significant for many reasons, not the least of which is a chance to get in the last group and make NBC happy.
    Keeper of Nathalie Pechelat's bitchface.

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