View Poll Results: Better career- Delobel & Schoenfelder or Belbin & Agosto

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  • Delobel & Schoenfelder

    61 33.15%
  • Belbin & Agosto

    123 66.85%
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  1. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by mia joy View Post
    but apparently they do allow throwing out the last two segments with the CD winner deciding the champion... I know this particular case (2010 Euros) does not have anything to do with our topic here, but this kind of defending the rules just makes me laugh...
    I totally agree!

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by mia joy View Post
    but apparently they do allow throwing out the last two segments with the CD winner deciding the champion... I know this particular case (2010 Euros) does not have anything to do with our topic here, but this kind of defending the rules just makes me laugh...

    ......And about Isabelle's dresses - her best Piano dress was the first one, the one she used in GP series. The one from Euros was too simple and at worlds everything was overdone, not only the dress, also the changes they made in the dance itself. But I still loved it and cannot even imagine anyone prefering K/N's "thing" (I can't even call it a dance, sorry )
    I wasn't defending the rules as much as I was giving an explanation as to why I believe that B&A deserved a medal and IMO should have won the gold. Laugh all you want, that won't change anyone else opinion.

    As I said, B&A are not the only team or single skater(s) to benefitting from "code whoring." Heck the beloved D&W with Igor's bland but cleverly choreographed program code whored their way through (IMO) one of the worst FD's of the season. Oh, I forgot that since D&W are a favorite team people are talking about POTO as if it's an artistic masterpiece.

    The top two men finishers in Vancouver also did the same thing. Plushenko did it previously four years ago when he won the gold in Torino. Actually at least half the field in all the disciplines no longer bother with actual choreography in between the required jumps and footwork sequences. Yet it's B&A who often get singled out as lacking.

    I never stated I agreed or loved the rules; actually I'm disappointed that the current rules seem to discourage creativity and innovation while they encourage placing the focus on connecting the elements with little in between.

    We can agree that K&N's 2008 FD wasn't all that great as a competitive piece. But for some reason that season many felt that Jana and Sergei were wonderful artists deserving of a medal. As I recall many were hoping and/or predicting they would actually win worlds.

  3. #63
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    Ok, sorry, perhaps "defending the rules" was a wrong expression, my point was, I have nothing against couples winning by FD, if the FD really stands out and makes the highlight of the night, which was in the case we discuss here.

    Also, never said POTO was an artistic masterpiece. But Samson and Dalilah surely was. And yet, even their POTO was faaar better than anything B/A did in the past few years. JMHO, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Carmen Ovsiannikov View Post
    We can agree that K&N's 2008 FD wasn't all that great as a competitive piece. But for some reason that season many felt that Jana and Sergei were wonderful artists deserving of a medal. As I recall many were hoping and/or predicting they would actually win worlds.
    yeah, well, that's exactly what I'm talking about. How could they possibly be called artists after presenting this kind of a dance? I mean, seriously, if anything besides ISU new crazy rules has ever been able to literally kill ice dancing, it's dances like K/N's 2008 FD. That program was about everything but dancing. For me it was just tasteless. Again, it's JMO and I know my words are harsh and mean, but that dance was really a torture for me.

    If the OD marks had been based on the actual skating, the gap between B/A and D/W would have been far smaller than it was, and D/W's clearly superior FD performance would have won gold. IMHO.
    exactly my thoughts, only I wasn't able to put them down in words properly

  4. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carmen Ovsiannikov
    Oh, I forgot that since D&W are a favorite team people are talking about POTO as if it's an artistic masterpiece.
    Hmmm...seems to me most of us thought POTO was quite a technical masterpiece, although some of us loved it as artistic as well. And since artistic expression is very much subjective, to each his own.

    Excuse me, but your bitterness is showing.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by mia joy View Post
    How could they possibly be called artists after presenting this kind of a dance? I mean, seriously, if anything besides ISU new crazy rules has ever been able to literally kill ice dancing, it's dances like K/N's 2008 FD. That program was about everything but dancing.
    We are going way off the topic here but K/N presented very well the idea and the music in Night at the bald mountain and yes, it was somehow according to the new rules.Not to mention that the costumes were also bold but clever choice
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_on_Bald_Mountain
    Opera Project: The Witch (1860)
    The theme of a witches' sabbath, the central theme in all subsequent Night on Bald Mountain projects, appears to have been derived from the nonextant play The Witch (Russian: Ведьма, Ved'ma, Witch) by Baron Georgy Mengden, a military friend of the composer. In 1860 Mussorgsky informed Balakirev that he had been commissioned to write one act of an opera on this subject.[6] However, as with the previous project, it is unknown whether any materials were composed, and if so, whether they were transferred to
    subsequent projects.
    BTW D/S also skated to this music in 1999, of course it was combine with Adagio by Yanni and to be honest it was not the best interpretation but this is just MHO.

    OTAH I also don't like the way Ice Dance is going but when it comes to the new rules i prefer to see athletic lifts and tricks in dances like K/N 2008 FD instead of watching ballroom music with flips and twists over the sholder .Now this is what i see as tastless.

    Quote Originally Posted by mia joy View Post
    Again, it's JMO and I know my words are harsh and mean,
    Well,we all are looking with different eyes but i don't think we have to turn ourselves into a crusaders defending our favorite figure skaters honor against everyone who has another opinion. Yet,this is what most of the fans do and i admit that i've done it myself too
    Now let the voting continue .
    Last edited by vivika1982; 06-13-2010 at 06:37 PM.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by ~tapdancer~ View Post
    Hmmm...seems to me most of us thought POTO was quite a technical masterpiece, although some of us loved it as artistic as well. And since artistic expression is very much subjective, to each his own.

    Excuse me, but your bitterness is showing.
    It's also possible to be a sore winner as well. Your snottiness and passive/aggressive side is coming out. Again.

    Actually I've been very quiet about my feelings on D&W for the very reason stated above. Disliking anyone (or the programs of anyone) who defeated B&A won't be taken at face value. Bitterness my arse. I haven't liked POTO for D&W since they debuted it and said as much long before B&A debuted their own programs. If I was truly being bitter ( ) I would have included all areas of D&W's skating including the Bollywood OD (which I went on record as listing as one of my favorites all season).

    Try again.

    I keep making the mistake of defending B&A for some strange reason. I'm done. The season is over and Tanith and Ben are officially retired. End of story.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carmen Ovsiannikov View Post
    I keep making the mistake of defending B&A for some strange reason.
    Since going against the crowd can be fun sometimes, especialy when you have valid reasons to believe you are right.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by ~tapdancer~ View Post
    Hmmm...seems to me most of us thought POTO was quite a technical masterpiece, although some of us loved it as artistic as well. And since artistic expression is very much subjective, to each his own.

    Excuse me, but your bitterness is showing.
    Don't worry, give D/W another season or two and then suddenly everyone will be trashing them, saying they are overrating, critiquing their lack of technique and moving on to a new young "exciting" team...

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by HSGP21 View Post
    Don't worry, give D/W another season or two and then suddenly everyone will be trashing them, saying they are overrating, critiquing their lack of technique and moving on to a new young "exciting" team...
    except, B/A have never been exciting, even when "fresh" and young, at least not for me So, I cannot speak for the crowd but I don't see myself moving on from D/W that easily. I don't give up on my favourites just like that

    And hey, I know everything about going against the crowd. You're talking to a girl who cannot pass V/M's Mahler FD without ironically laughing at some elements, with a severe toothache caused by the sugar put in this dance And then, I went against the crowd loving D/S Piano more than V/M Umbrellas in 2008. So yeah, I'm pretty much an expert

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by mia joy View Post
    except, B/A have never been exciting, even when "fresh" and young, at least not for me So, I cannot speak for the crowd but I don't see myself moving on from D/W that easily. I don't give up on my favourites just like that

    And hey, I know everything about going against the crowd. You're talking to a girl who cannot pass V/M's Mahler FD without ironically laughing at some elements, with a severe toothache caused by the sugar put in this dance And then, I went against the crowd loving D/S Piano more than V/M Umbrellas in 2008. So yeah, I'm pretty much an expert
    B/A were fresh andexciting from 2002 to 2005 and D/W really made me think about Tanith and ben from this period of time. I think their coaches didn't know how to handle their situation post world medal, their program were never rigth or okey (i don't know how to explain it) I do hope thta the same thing doesn't happen to FSU sweet hearts.

    so agree with your second paragraph

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valentina View Post
    B/A were fresh andexciting from 2002 to 2005 and D/W really made me think about Tanith and ben from this period of time.
    I don't know, maybe I just don't remember them too well from that period, ice dancing went completely unexciting in general to me then, after A/P, D/V, L/A's retirement, so i didn't really pay attention to it (I know - I lost much of D/S but I only fell for them in 2006), but well, I watched it and B/A failed to make me excited about themselves or ice dance in general, so...

    btw, I love your supporting of my negative VM comments

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by mia joy View Post
    I don't know, maybe I just don't remember them too well from that period, ice dancing went completely unexciting in general to me then, after A/P, D/V, L/A's retirement, so i didn't really pay attention to it (I know - I lost much of D/S but I only fell for them in 2006), but well, I watched it and B/A failed to make me excited about themselves or ice dance in general, so...

    btw, I love your supporting of my negative VM comments
    hahaha...yes!!!
    I can understand what you saying but I still think they were fresh and exciting they were so charismatic and had a powerfull skating, seriouly, what a heel happen to them?!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1utGRaJuFbI

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valentina View Post
    they were so charismatic and had a powerfull skating, seriouly, what a heel happen to them?!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1utGRaJuFbI

    COP

  14. #74
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    yep

  15. #75
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    I remember the Elvis program too!

    It was a lot of fun, but at least in Lalique, it was somewhat sloppily executed. I thought their style back then had not matured, especially with the certain lacks in finish, such as with Tanith's unpointed toes. It was clear that they were not yet as sophisticated as teams such as G/G or D/S. But starting from the 06/07 season, I started enjoying their programs more, and seeing a more mature approach to their programs. My favorite programs by them were their Amelie and Chopin programs, even though Amelie was not skated to its potential.

  16. #76

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    IMO Elvis is probably wrong program to be critiquing Tanith's toes: a balletically pointed toe in a rock n roll number is so out of place as to be
    Completely not in the character of the music/dance.

    Now Chopin, let fly. Her toes should be balletically pointed there, IMO.

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