Fender Bender/Fault Question

[Anita18]

I was always taught to be careful about anticipating a light change. While it is human nature to be impatient and hit the gas when the light turns green, pausing a second to ensure that you don't hit the people completing turns slowly or the ones who mistime trying to get through the yellow light.

When I was a little kid riding with my parents, I always wanted my parents to go immediately when the light turned green because I was impatient.

Now that I'm a driver in LA, I totally wait for others to start moving, in case there's a crazy driver who wants to run the light at 40+mph. I even consider the possible cushioning that other cars might give me if I'm in the leftmost lane and a crazy driver ran the light coming from my right.

Going left when there's no green arrow is also dicey at times. You have to trust that the people coming at you will slow down at a yellow light so you can go instead of accelerating so they can make it. When it's really busy I just usually relegate myself to turning as the light turns red because I just don't know if the people coming at me will stop.

I've also almost been hit on a left arrow because a driver in the other direction thought it would be a great idea to turn right into the middle lane...which is where I wanted to go. Driving in SoCal will teach you how to be a defensive driver really really fast!

You definitely see people running left arrow lights regularly here, especially on freeway onramps.

[Japanfan]

The fact that she had entered the intersection when the light was green, should give her the right to be able to finish her turn, even after the light has changed to red, and particularly if she had no option to give way to traffic that was still proceeding through the intersection. Otherwise she could have caused a much more serious incident.

I would think that OlieRow probably should have waited for the woman to complete her turn before proceeding (sorry OlieRow), regardless of the light changing green.

This is what I would think as well.

In my city cars are routinely stuck in intersections waiting to turn left on orange and even red - and cars going straight often proceed through orange when they really should have stopped.

Likewise, when there is a green turn arrow, cars often proceed after the arrow has turned to orange. OlieRow didn't indicate that the left turn arrow turned orange, but even so, drivers are expected to be aware of cars in intersections.

Although I don't know what the particular rules in this case/place are.

[sk8pics]

Really? Because when I took driver's ed (which was a long, long time ago, I must admit), we were told that we own one third of the intersection when turning left and should pull out that far while waiting to turn.

Yes, but not if you have no place to go because traffic has filled up the street you are turning onto, as you quoted in a later post.

[Prancer]

Yes, but not if you have no place to go because traffic has filled up the street you are turning onto, as you quoted in a later post.

Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but when it said "The road into which you are turning must be clear. You must not enter an intersection for any reason if the traffic in the road you are entering is backed up to the intersection," that indicated to me that you can't pull into the intersection when turning left if the street you are turning left into is backed up, not that you can't pull forward if there is oncoming traffic.

Maybe I'm confused about what I read, but I didn't see anything in what OlieRow said that would indicate that the street the woman was turning into was backed up. What I got was that the woman had pulled forward to turn, the light changed and she completed the turn as OlieRow pulled forward on the opposite side--something OlieRow couldn't have done if the traffic had been backed up into the intersection on the street the woman was turning into.

So in Illinois (and in my state), the woman would have been permitted to do that; in California, she wouldn't have.

[Really]

If the woman who had pulled forward to turn indeed had the advance turn arrow, there should have been no need for her to hesitate in the turn. It wasn't like she had to wait for oncoming traffic. I also don't understand why OlieRow would have accelerated from the right hand lane if someone was already making a turn. There's just something about the whole scenario that doesn't make sense to me.

[Japanfan]

If the woman who had pulled forward to turn indeed had the advance turn arrow, there should have been no need for her to hesitate in the turn. It wasn't like she had to wait for oncoming traffic.

Good point - I immediately translated the story into my own typical driving scenario, which is waiting for oncoming traffic to clear.

[Norlite]

Sounds to me like she entered the intersection on a yellow advance turn light, not a green. People do it here all the time, trying to get through before red and the oncoming traffic gets the green. She got stuck when the light turned from yellow to red before she turned and OlieRow began through the intersection, (whether jumping the green or not, i've seen that happen too, but no judgement on that. I wasn't there)

IMO, she should have been noticed and oncoming should have let her through. Legally though, haven't a clue.

[sk8pics]

Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but when it said "The road into which you are turning must be clear. You must not enter an intersection for any reason if the traffic in the road you are entering is backed up to the intersection," that indicated to me that you can't pull into the intersection when turning left if the street you are turning left into is backed up, not that you can't pull forward if there is oncoming traffic.

Maybe I'm confused about what I read, but I didn't see anything in what OlieRow said that would indicate that the street the woman was turning into was backed up. What I got was that the woman had pulled forward to turn, the light changed and she completed the turn as OlieRow pulled forward on the opposite side--something OlieRow couldn't have done if the traffic had been backed up into the intersection on the street the woman was turning into.

So in Illinois (and in my state), the woman would have been permitted to do that; in California, she wouldn't have.

Oh, yeah, sorry! I digressed, and just was commenting on a general rule, not the specific situation of the original poster. Sorry!

[Prancer]

Sounds to me like she entered the intersection on a yellow advance turn light, not a green.

I think that's probably what happened, too, but I believe that here, doing so would put her at fault. Before the light turns yellow, you are safe to pull out, but once it turns yellow, you aren't and are supposed to stop and yield.

Again, that's just what I was taught, and I found a discussion of that very situation on a lawyer's page for my particular state, but that's this state.

Most confusing, the US. It's no surprise tourists are always creating problems .

Oh, yeah, sorry! I digressed, and just was commenting on a general rule, not the specific situation of the original poster. Sorry!

No problem, but I think we are still talking about two different traffic scenarios there .