Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst ... 234
Results 61 to 80 of 80
  1. #61
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    10,234
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by smarts1 View Post
    Michelle being higher than even 4th or even 5th at Torino is a joke. She is in no way meant for COP with those low jumps and poor spins even in her prime.
    Sasha had even lower jumps and honestly her spins weren't so hot either, and she managed to do quite well for herself under COP, it's like her gumby spirals and theatrical expression were enough to compensate.

  2. #62
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    109
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    If we're talking about Top 10 contenders, 2006 could have been Susanna Pöykiö's best year without the injuries. She had gained new status and confidence as a European silver medalist, she had all the jumps and she still had the Biellmann spin which she later had to give up because of back problems.

  3. #63
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    10,234
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by kukkura View Post
    If we're talking about Top 10 contenders, 2006 could have been Susanna Pöykiö's best year without the injuries. She had gained new status and confidence as a European silver medalist, she had all the jumps and she still had the Biellmann spin which she later had to give up because of back problems.
    Poykio = Total Snooze

    I don't really understand how she had as much success as she did considering her overall skating was just very bland.

  4. #64
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Age
    23
    Posts
    13,188
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Poykio was always underrated as much as Lepisto is overrated IMO. As it was in this hypothetical I made this thread about I think she would really get buried. If I recall correctly she did a clean short at the Olympics and only got 53 and change, closer to Mira Leung than Emily Hughes.

  5. #65
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    9,802
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by pinky166 View Post
    Poykio = Total Snooze

    I don't really understand how she had as much success as she did considering her overall skating was just very bland.
    Wasn't Poykio considered the European version of MK?

  6. #66
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    with my Sestra Helena plotting how to ravish Hot Paul and delicious Cal
    Age
    36
    Posts
    3,255
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by pinky166 View Post
    Sasha had even lower jumps and honestly her spins weren't so hot either, and she managed to do quite well for herself under COP, it's like her gumby spirals and theatrical expression were enough to compensate.
    I agree with you about Cohen's low jumps and weak landings and she was a notorious flutzer too, but I am seriously by you saying her spins weren't so hot. Her spins IMO were her biggest strength, even more so than her spirals.

  7. #67
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Ravenclaw Common Room
    Posts
    2,002
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by smarts1 View Post
    IGNORE.
    You want us to ignore you? Very well.

  8. #68
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    773
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    I meant at their then best, not at their career best. Kwan had not done a triple-triple combination since 2002, and with an aged body which had to heal from various injuries, and not having even tried one in competition for so long I wouldnt consider that as part of her then best even fully healthy. Lets face it, we pretty much know Kwan at that point was not going to be doing a triple-triple. I dont assume Sasha's best included the triple lutz-triple toe she last did in 2003 either.

    Mao did skate poorly when she lost to Yu Na at the World Juniors. It is hard to see her losing to Yu Na skating like she did at the Grand Prix final. On the other side though if Kim and Asada had been age eligible Kim would have likely competed as a senior that fall and this would have helped her build a rep faster and maybe been more of a threat at this stocked brilliantly skated Olympics than most of us seem to think she would have been.

    Personally i find this whole time machine speculation thing to be lol, but in the case of kwan's triple triple - I believe she directly implied in one of the press conference/interview quotes following her controversial bye to the olympics that she knew she needed a 3/3 to be competitive (not to mention her talk of her fixing the levels for COP and such. one of the guidelines for her bye was that the judges or whatever thought she had a shot to get the gold). also we have to consider that from what we saw of her competition performances in 2005, her jumps had the greatest height of her entire career

    personally with michelle - as much as i love her, it's impossible to speculate whether she would've medaled or got some place as horrible as 10th. we simply don't know unless we could've seen her complete 2006 programs.

    btw even though everyone wasn't at their best in 2006, I was still mesmerized by shizuka's performance. it was so elegant and musical...it's those qualities which stay with me and not necessarily who did the hardest program
    Last edited by iarispiralllyof; 05-30-2010 at 01:18 AM.

  9. #69
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    1,264
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    It's kind of silly to include Kwan in this discussion, as everyone else mentioned were at least healthy enough to compete that season.

  10. #70
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Age
    23
    Posts
    13,188
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by iarispiralllyof View Post
    also we have to consider that from what we saw of her competition performances in 2005, her jumps had the greatest height of her entire career
    Well you sure wouldnt get me agreeing there at all. I dont think in anyway she was at her technical peak by 2005, truthfully she was well past it. Her technical peak as a skater was definitely 1996-2001 IMHO. Artistically is more debateable but I will say she continued experimenting with new looks and programs her whole career.

    Her highest jumps? Those were in 1997 and 1998 by far IMO.

  11. #71
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    with my Sestra Helena plotting how to ravish Hot Paul and delicious Cal
    Age
    36
    Posts
    3,255
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Her highest jumps? Those were in 1997 and 1998 by far IMO.
    Kwan completed high jumps at the 2004 Worlds. That big 3flip in her Tosca LP still impresses me to this day. Also, her 2001 Nationals SP to East of Eden and that big 3Lutz+2toe combination still stays in my mind.

  12. #72
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Age
    23
    Posts
    13,188
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    I didnt say her jumps were small in later years but 97 and 98 were her biggest jumps IMO. Her biggest jumps after that were at the 2000 and 2001 Worlds where she attacked the programs all out with abandon and alot of speed which make her jumps even bigger as well.

  13. #73
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    773
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Well you sure wouldnt get me agreeing there at all. I dont think in anyway she was at her technical peak by 2005, truthfully she was well past it. Her technical peak as a skater was definitely 1996-2001 IMHO. Artistically is more debateable but I will say she continued experimenting with new looks and programs her whole career.

    Her highest jumps? Those were in 1997 and 1998 by far IMO.
    I'm not saying she was at her technical best then, just that at certain times in later years her jumps were very high (and not only that but it seemed with more power). 04 and 05 worlds for example.
    actually I think she declined artistically after 01-02 in order to focus more on the jumps, she left out a lot of choreography and did programs with more aggressive music in those later years. it kind of had mixed results but her 2004 tosca at nationals is one example of her later focus on technical rather than artistic. she seemed to perfect her technique on such jumps as the lutz (her jumps were all very strong in that program), and in 04 and 05 nationals and worlds (besides the flaws) I recall her spins were faster and she held them for more revolutions.

  14. #74
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    2,775
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    1)Slutskaya- had the momentum only lost ONCE up to that point in the last two seasons and was quite consistent up to the O's
    2)Kwan- her summer training was apparently going extremely well before injuries got the best of her. Assuming she competed in at least one GP I think 6 triples and TT choreo would lock her in for silver
    3)Arakawa-really turned her training up several notches for the games, but her season was nothing special up to that point and she was not receiving world champ marks
    4)Asada- Technically astounding that season, but lacking PCS of the top three
    5)Cohen- let's be honest, her best would still include one fall and probably a two-foot or step out but her spins and spirals would of course garner high marks
    6)Suguri- she skated very well as it was, and the judges wanted to keep her in the mix to end her career on a high note (why she ignored them I'll never know)
    7)Rochette- I think 5 or 6 triples is doable in the free, but for some reason she had the worst programs that year
    8)Kim-this would have been her first senior competition and she was still a bit unpolished
    9)Meissner- the Olympics is often a coming out party for younger skaters and since her 3/3s were being ratified it's hard to deny her a top ten finish
    10)Sokolova- had some GREAT skates that season and made the GPF, but lack of a 3/3 at that point and poor basics would keep her down.
    11)Nakano- had a breakout season and probably could have landed an UR 3A (Yes, I know this is the fourth JPN lady, but you said EVERYONE, right?)
    12)Ando- the coaching change seemed to really mess her up that year and even at her best, her gorgeous 3z/3l's were getting DGed
    13)Kostner-already on a downward spiral and I don't think her best could produce more than 4 clean triples.
    14)Liashenko- just had to give a shout out to Freakin'

  15. #75
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    10,234
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    1) Slutskaya
    2) Arakawa
    3) Asada
    4) Kwan
    5) Cohen
    6) Kim
    7) Suguri
    8) Rochette
    9) Ando
    10) Meissner
    11) Kostner
    12) Sokolova

  16. #76
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Olympics withdrawal/exhastion
    Age
    22
    Posts
    1,113
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Triple Butz View Post
    1)5)Cohen- let's be honest, her best would still include one fall and probably a two-foot or step out but her spins and spirals would of course garner high marks
    IIRC, her best LP that season was at nationals, where she stepped out of two jumps but skated the rest clean. If we're judging by the best everyone could have done, I think Sasha would have managed to stay on her feet, even if she didn't skate flawlessly.

  17. #77
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Age
    23
    Posts
    13,188
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Triple Butz View Post
    Assuming she competed in at least one GP I think 6 triples and TT choreo would lock her in for silver
    TT choreo is meant to be a good thing these days? Or maybe you meant she would only win silver since she had TT choreo.

  18. #78
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    2,775
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    TT choreo is meant to be a good thing these days? Or maybe you meant she would only win silver since she had TT choreo.
    LOL, I more or less meant "choreography" in general since she had almost none in the seasons leading up to the 06 Games. Kwan is so versatile and confident in her movements that I bet she could turn even Mary Scotvold's choreography into a masterpiece.

  19. #79
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    2,775
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by RockTheTassel View Post
    IIRC, her best LP that season was at nationals, where she stepped out of two jumps but skated the rest clean. If we're judging by the best everyone could have done, I think Sasha would have managed to stay on her feet, even if she didn't skate flawlessly.
    but let's also not forget a heavily two-foot 3flip in the short program there which could have put her behind. The bottom line is, even on Cohen's absolute best day she was likely to be outjumped by several of her competitors.

  20. #80
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Age
    23
    Posts
    13,188
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Also even with her 2 big mistakes Cohen landed the same # of triples as Shizuka yet was dusted by her by 8 points in the LP and overall. Slutskaya had only 4 triples, and only 2 of those clean in a way, and a really weak overall performance and yet finished less than 2 points back. So as great as Sasha's spins, spirals, and positions were it is not like Sasha had this huge advantage in non jump elements she was potrayed to have perhaps.

    My personal take is Sasha at her best could avoid falling. She did at the 2005 Worlds and her 2006 Nationals LP referred to earlier. Also at 2002 Cup of Russia, 2002 Nationals, and a few other times. If I was being generous I would say she could even maybe do a long program that was sort of "clean" with no touch downs, step outs, or two foots (though that might be generous). I would never go as far as to think she could do a program that was squeeky clean and had no -GOE on any of her jumps including no -GOE for a flutz as Fallcolor and some others might believe. Something like her short program in Turin is the best she could ever do IMO, and whether she could ever duplicate even that in a long program even at her competitive best is debateable.

    I cant imagine that would be enough to take down either Slutskaya or Shizuka skating the best they could including triple-triples for both (as both obviously could do them at that point in time). Whether it would be enough to beat a clean Asada or Kwan would depend on how stingy the judges were to newbie Asada at the big one vs girls who had been on top all quad especialy on the PCS, and how much Kwan had improved under COP in a year. There is Kim to maybe consider as well but I really cant imagine her chances that year were even as good as Asada's, despite that she beat an off form Asada to win World Juniors that year. Of course with the way the Olympics were actually skated as opposed to my hypothetical we can pretty safely say Asada for sure, a healthy Kwan, and even Kim for that matter had a big chance to really do something.

Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst ... 234

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •