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  1. #21
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    Can she still do the same layout as the Olympics, only changing the 2A+2T+2Lo into a 3S+2T+2Lo and keeping everything the same? If i remember the Zayak rule isn't violated still. But...if she instead opts to do a double (lets say lutz) instead of the third 2Axel i have to wonder if the judges would change how they score her on PCS.

  2. #22
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    In her Olympic FS, her two repeated triples are 3Lutz (3Lz/3T and solo 3Lz) and 3T (3Lz/3T and 2A/3T). She already has a solo 3S. If she changes the 2A/2T/2Lo to 3S/2T/2Lo and still keeps the 3S, she'll have repeated three triples and will be in violation of the Zayak Rule (max two repeated triples).

    In her Olympic FS layout, the solo 3Lz would be the third repeated triple and would get no credit.
    "'Is this new BMW-designed sled the ultimate sledding machine for Langdon and Holcomb?' Leigh Diffey asked before the pair cruised to victory. I don’t know, but I know that sled is the ultimate Olympic Games product placement.." -- Jen Chaney

  3. #23
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    ooooo...basically you can't do 3 repeated triples. OMG I had no idea until now that it was part of the Zayak rule

    With the new rules, I don't think it will be the change of point values that will affect her as it does everyone else, but that she is now faced to do a 3loop (or 3axel) in the LP now and most importantly how it will affect her consistency. Given her being olympic champ already i don't see her going for even easier elements than she did in Vancouver, so i'm pretty sure she will try to push herself technically and try these new jumps.
    But overall, i don't think she will be affected a bit by these new rules. she+brian have always done a good job at maximizing her scoring potential.
    Last edited by Fallcolor; 05-18-2010 at 05:47 PM.

  4. #24
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    I can't tell you the number of times I've miscounted the triples in trying to come up with alternate plans that don't violate the Zayak rule.
    "'Is this new BMW-designed sled the ultimate sledding machine for Langdon and Holcomb?' Leigh Diffey asked before the pair cruised to victory. I don’t know, but I know that sled is the ultimate Olympic Games product placement.." -- Jen Chaney

  5. #25
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    I think the following would be the best layout for Kim without a 3loop (not in that order of course):

    3lz-3t
    3lz-2t
    3flip
    3flip-2t-2r
    3sal
    2axel
    2axel

    By making her 3 combos be with lutzes and flips, she's maximizing her base value by taking advantage of that 10% combo bonus.

    She'll still be fine without the 3loop.

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by IceJunkie View Post
    I think she'll stay in another year and then retire, but even then I really worry about her keeping the motivation up. I imagine its hard to stay focused when you've already won the big prize.
    Some skaters (i.e Kwan) can stay motivated to win repeated world titles, especially if they love skating and competing - though that seems to be becoming less the case under CoP.

    I do agree though that it might be hard for Yunah to keep the motivation up - but because of the huge amount of pressure and expectation she has to bear. Her use of the word 'horrendous' was telling. And so was her comment (sad in my opinion) that she would like to not worry about eating too much because if she gained weight her face looked bloated in her pictures - but she didn't even know what she wanted to eat. It was if she is not really allowed to be just human. .

    Perfection and brilliance were expected of Yunah at the Olympics and she delivered. She is certainly the best in the world at the moment, but I question whether she was motivated more by a true love of the sport of by her sense of obligation to her nation as its 'queen' (Orser has emphasized that obligation). Or, if the burden that came with her huge celebrity and wealth at such a young age dwarfed and perhaps undermined her love of the sport.

    I expect she will stay in a year because she feels obligated to do but wonder if we will ever again see the same fire and perfection we saw at the Olympics.

    I would really be sad to see her go. Mao is my favourite and in contrast to Yunah, she has plenty of drive and for her, the best (or better) may still be yet to come. But she thrives on competition (before Worlds she said she just wanted to beat Yunah one more time).

    Without Yunah, the field would definitely deflate. Miki and Mao need to be pushed, Mirai is not yet ready IMO to move up a full level. Kostner's best days are behind her and Rochette will likely not return to competition. That leaves. . . well, Markova is one bright light I guess.

  7. #27
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    True and great champions are those who can also adapt to the rules and work with them, not against them. I'm getting sick of the comments negatively debating about the fact that this or this skater won thanks to rules that were favorable to them and won't help them in the future so they will lose, blahhh...

    If a skater has managed to play with given rules I don't see why this skater couldn't play with other rules.
    There is no absolute truth about what is real perfect skating, especially under the current system that has set criterias for points that can be changed. There are a lot of variables and many different opinions.
    Athletes who adapt the best become the bests. Yu Na proved it and I don't see why she could'nt adapt the same with changing rules. She has specific qualities but she worked very hard too, and that work is a huge part of her success. She would work the same in the future if she wants to.
    Same for Mao, she hasn't showed the best adaptation to the system this past season, but she can do it. She has her strenghts as well and the capacity to maximize points.
    So, it will be to the skater who adapts the best next year and who is the most motivated for it.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Japanfan View Post
    Some skaters (i.e Kwan) can stay motivated to win repeated world titles, especially if they love skating and competing - though that seems to be becoming less the case under CoP.

    I do agree though that it might be hard for Yunah to keep the motivation up - but because of the huge amount of pressure and expectation she has to bear. Her use of the word 'horrendous' was telling. And so was her comment (sad in my opinion) that she would like to not worry about eating too much because if she gained weight her face looked bloated in her pictures - but she didn't even know what she wanted to eat. It was if she is not really allowed to be just human. .

    Perfection and brilliance were expected of Yunah at the Olympics and she delivered. She is certainly the best in the world at the moment, but I question whether she was motivated more by a true love of the sport of by her sense of obligation to her nation as its 'queen' (Orser has emphasized that obligation). Or, if the burden that came with her huge celebrity and wealth at such a young age dwarfed and perhaps undermined her love of the sport.

    I expect she will stay in a year because she feels obligated to do but wonder if we will ever again see the same fire and perfection we saw at the Olympics.

    I would really be sad to see her go. Mao is my favourite and in contrast to Yunah, she has plenty of drive and for her, the best (or better) may still be yet to come. But she thrives on competition (before Worlds she said she just wanted to beat Yunah one more time).

    Without Yunah, the field would definitely deflate. Miki and Mao need to be pushed, Mirai is not yet ready IMO to move up a full level. Kostner's best days are behind her and Rochette will likely not return to competition. That leaves. . . well, Markova is one bright light I guess.
    I find it amusing how some people manage to dig out negativity from whatever Yu Na Kim says.

    Of course, she has a lot of pressure on her shoulders.
    But it shouldn’t be overlooked that all her pressures stem from the fact that she is a great skater and a fabulous individual.
    High expectations and love of her adoring fans is a prize for all her hard work and achievements, not a burden.
    She has everything going for her, and she should soke it all in.
    From observing her recent activities, i.e. Time 100 party, cheering for World Cup, promoting Korea’s bid for winter Olympics, etc., she seems happy and just fine.

    I also don’t understand what makes you think she can't handle pressure.
    She had the most pressure by far during the Olympics but we all know Yu Na Kim was not the skater who choked badly.
    Didn’t you see her smirking at her closest competitor’s SOHL before she entered the ice for her SP?
    Do you actually think she will give up her life’s prize just because it brings her a little more pressure that she has no problem dealing with?
    Her competitors might be dying to fill her shoes, but they should earn it with hard work, rather than wishing for her early retirement. LOL

    Let me add that I’m not a bit surprised by her using “horrendous” in response to questions regarding her intent to compete in Sochi.
    It was a cruel question to ask a girl who has just finished long and grueling over 10 year long campaign to achieve her ultimate goal.
    She should really be given some breathing room.

    Also, what's the big deal about her being concerned about gaining weight?
    Before making a fuss, just go out in the street and ask any 19 year old girl if she was concerned about looking slim.
    Although degree may vary, Yu Na Kim is not the only person wanting to eat delicious food but worried about getting out of shape.

    Yu Na Kim tends to be very candid when she gives interviews.
    IMO, people should appreciate her openness and willingness to interact.
    I hope some people are not trying to twist her words in an effort to paint a negative image.
    Last edited by RumbleFish; 05-18-2010 at 11:31 AM.

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by sk9tingfan View Post
    http://www.universalsports.com/news/...id=473126.html

    In a new article on Universal Sports' site, Kim indicates the following:

    "It's only been three months after the Olympics, and to think of four more years down the road is just horrendous," the carefree Kim told Reuters in an interview last week.

    "I am not thinking of the next Olympics yet because I haven't yet made a decision on next season"

    She also communicates some interesting stuff on her relationship with Brian Orser and the whole issue of trust.
    The article above was released by Reuter.

    The photos by Reuter during the interview with Yu-Na.

    photo 1. South Korean figure skater Kim Yu-na looks at her mobile phone during an interview with Reuters in Seoul May 14, 2010.

    photo 2. South Korean figure skater Kim Yu-na smiles during an interview with Reuters

    photo 3. South Korean figure skater Kim Yu-na smiles during an interview with Reuters 2

    photo 4. South Korean figure skater Kim Yu-na reacts as she speaks to the media during an interview with Reuters
    Last edited by eyh201; 05-18-2010 at 11:36 AM.

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by RumbleFish View Post

    Even if she wins, she will never be free from pundits criticizing her inability to win without being gifted through rule changes.
    If she fails to win, she will be deemed as a perennial loser who couldn't win despite having the system blatantly rigged for her.



    I think you are just keeping your eyes closed and your ears stuffed about how much the old rules were made to benefit Yuna highly and disadvantage other ladies and made them sunken. And did you forget the fact there were actually some rule changes in the past (from Torino to Vancouver) that nearly ruined Mao's jump arsenals and almost killed her?

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by RumbleFish View Post
    I find it amusing how some people manage to dig out negativity from whatever Yu Na Kim says.
    I find it amusing you are saying this when all you do is to find negative things to say about Mao and her fans.

  12. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by galaxy View Post
    I think you are just keeping your eyes closed and your ears stuffed about how much the old rules were made to benefit Yuna highly and disadvantage other ladies and made them sunken. And did you forget the fact there were actually some rule changes in the past (from Torino to Vancouver) that nearly ruined Mao's jump arsenals and almost killed her?
    Most of the rules were in place before Yu-na was a Senior. The only thing that was not in place was the edge rules, but that's something people were clamoring for awhile, and Yu-na also had to make changes due to those rules as well.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by bek View Post
    Most of the rules were in place before Yu-na was a Senior. The only thing that was not in place was the edge rules, but that's something people were clamoring for awhile, and Yu-na also had to make changes due to those rules as well.
    But the edge rules were a big disadvantage to Mao, and probably led her to make the changes to the layout that we see currently. I don't believe they were made to target Mao specificially but couldn't we say the same for the new rules? These are also changes that people have wanted for awhile. I just don't understand why these rules have to be seen as favoring one and disadvantaging another skater.

  14. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by miki88 View Post
    But the edge rules were a big disadvantage to Mao, and probably led her to make the changes to the layout that we see currently. I don't believe they were made to target Mao specificially but couldn't we say the same for the new rules? These are also changes that people have wanted for awhile. I just don't understand why these rules have to be seen as favoring one and disadvantaging another skater.
    But the edge rules were only fair, and should have been instituted a long time ago. And Kim was essentially hurt by the edge rules herself.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by galaxy View Post
    I think you are just keeping your eyes closed and your ears stuffed about how much the old rules were made to benefit Yuna highly and disadvantage other ladies and made them sunken. And did you forget the fact there were actually some rule changes in the past (from Torino to Vancouver) that nearly ruined Mao's jump arsenals and almost killed her?
    I firmly belong to the purist camp in regards to jumps.
    Rule changes leading up to Vancouber were perfectly fair and I strongly believe it has restored some decency back to sport of figure skating.

    Ando and Joannie fixed their flip, and Rachel and Mirai fixed their lutz.
    Many ladies like Laura Lepsito, Elena Glebova, worked hard to achieve solid triple-triples, not to mention girls fresh off the junior circuit like Ksenia Makarova and Sarah Hecken.
    I don't know what Asada was doing while all this was going on, but she certainly had plenty of time to fix her jumps.

    Having said that, I want to point out that I'll have no choice but to deem you as a conspiracy theorist unless you could come up with credible evidence to back up your statement saying;

    "how much the old rules were made to benefit Yuna highly and disadvantage other ladies"

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by bek View Post
    But the edge rules were only fair, and should have been instituted a long time ago. And Kim was essentially hurt by the edge rules herself.
    I am not saying the rules were not fair. I am just saying a similar case can be made for the new rules, which don't just affect one skater either.

    Also, this not to you bek, but I just wanted to say for those who keep on saying that Mao did nothing to correct her flutz. She spent a whole season (2008-2009) correcting it. I believe she would have continued had the next season not being an Olympic season. Also, just because a skater doesn't use it in competition doesn't mean she is not practicing the jump.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by miki88 View Post
    I find it amusing you are saying this when all you do is to find negative things to say about Mao and her fans.
    I will ridicule stupid conspiracy theories regardless who says it.
    Likewise, I will show my displeasure for skaters being held up unfairly via bad judging and/or manipulation of rules.

    Let me also make myself clear that I find your comments extremely offending.
    By alleging that I only post here to saying negative things about Asada and her fans, you are unfairly trying to discredit me and opinions I have.
    You have completely failed to come up with any grounds, and I find your post no different from any other cheap-shot like PR stunts certain group of people in this board like to pull.

    BTW, I can promise to be one of the first one to praise Asada if she manages to land a clean 3Lz, 3S, and a well rotated triple-triple.

  18. #38
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    Go mao! Go mao! I hope Mao RULES! new season!

  19. #39
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    Goodness. This is about Yuna's future. And now we're heading to another Mao vs. Yuna debate.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by bek View Post
    Most of the rules were in place before Yu-na was a Senior. The only thing that was not in place was the edge rules, but that's something people were clamoring for awhile, and Yu-na also had to make changes due to those rules as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by miki88 View Post
    But the edge rules were a big disadvantage to Mao, and probably led her to make the changes to the layout that we see currently.
    The edge rules have been there from the beginning of CoP; it was in this cycle that they decided to enforce them by making the call the responsibility of the technical team instead of the judges, who weren't taking the deductions for blatantly wrong edges.

    If anyone thinks this was an anti-Asada crusade, talk to Joubert and Weir.

    On the other hand, it's hard to see how a rule that allows the 3A in the SP for Ladies isn't specifically to address the old rule that helds one specific Ladies' skater back, but I think the rules for Ladies and Men's FS's should be the same: same length, same jump rules, same step/spiral rules.
    "'Is this new BMW-designed sled the ultimate sledding machine for Langdon and Holcomb?' Leigh Diffey asked before the pair cruised to victory. I don’t know, but I know that sled is the ultimate Olympic Games product placement.." -- Jen Chaney

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