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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by caseyedwards View Post
    Chan also places a premium amount of jumps in the second half of his free skate. He basically does two short programs and then the second half of his free skate is jump time. It is probably much smarter for him to get those triples consistent. It's not like he has major problems doing any jumps-no bad technique there but to try to get a quad now that is risky.At this point he could probably ease up on transitions and still get high marks because of his rep. That is really cynical but he can start winning if he got those jumps and of course doing less stuff before them would help.
    Chan has problems with the triple axel (it may be getting better) but its clearly still an issue jump for him. Also, I brought up Brezina because I think with his quads, (if he does them consistency) and he can continue to get the decent levels he was getting, I think that he could become very dangerous for everyone. He was 3rd in the free skate without a 3/3 and without his quads, if he puts them in his TES will shoot way up, as will his PCS. Plus with the new rules about being able to do two quads in the short (although I don't think he's ready for it now...)

  2. #22
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    4 years ago who would have ever predicted Lysacek to be the 2010 Olympic Champion though.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    4 years ago who would have ever predicted Lysacek to be the 2010 Olympic Champion though.
    Maybe one should have watched his "Carmen" fs from 2006 Olympics with more thought? Anyway, that was a clear indication of his huge fighting spirit (now in hindsight, LOL).

  4. #24
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    Takahiko Kozuka, Yuzuru Hanyu, Javier Fernández, Denis Ten, Adam Rippon, Florent Amodio, Patrick Chan, Michal Brezina, etc. I hope Nobunari stays until 2014!


  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    4 years ago who would have ever predicted Lysacek to be the 2010 Olympic Champion though.
    Talk about Ilia Kulik in 1998, but not about Lysacek in 2010.
    Lysacek was already World medalist in 2005 and was already a medal contender in 2006. He bombed his SP but skated very LP in the LP. So, his Olympic Gold in 2010 is not such a surprise.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by briancoogaert View Post
    Talk about Ilia Kulik in 1998, but not about Lysacek in 2010.
    Lysacek was already World medalist in 2005 and was already a medal contender in 2006. He bombed his SP but skated very LP in the LP. So, his Olympic Gold in 2010 is not such a surprise.
    ITA. He was also world champion last year so he was clearly a favorite to win, if Plushenko and Lambiel had not come back he probably would have been the biggest favorite to win OGM.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zokko! View Post
    Amateur Lysacek was just lucky 'cause the judges had a "favour" for him ... he'll still remain as one of the most ridiculous ..."... Olympic ... "Champion" ..." ... for decades.
    yeah, but who did deserve to be named an Olympic Champion in Vancouver anyway? that men's event was the most disappointing thing in skating for me in years.

    as for the guys aiming for Sochi, they're all fresh air, capable of achieving a lot in the future, but to be honest none of them makes me anyhow excited. Well, Fernadez, yes, but I guess he's the only one. I guess it's just difficult for a male skater to win me these days I would say none of them stands out yet, not in a way to take your breath away with his own extraordinary style. But that's just my opinion - I'm still waiting for these boys to develop.

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by bek View Post
    Chan has problems with the triple axel (it may be getting better) but its clearly still an issue jump for him. Also, I brought up Brezina because I think with his quads, (if he does them consistency) and he can continue to get the decent levels he was getting, I think that he could become very dangerous for everyone. He was 3rd in the free skate without a 3/3 and without his quads, if he puts them in his TES will shoot way up, as will his PCS. Plus with the new rules about being able to do two quads in the short (although I don't think he's ready for it now...)
    I am sure Brezina is not changing his free skate for next season choreographically to see what happens if he adds a quad or a 3/3 or does more jumps after the halfway point. All of these are possible technical advancements or for more bonus points. I would be surprised if many skaters added quads to the short when so few do quads in the long successfully. Short program seems to be for most the time to be conservative.

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by caseyedwards View Post
    I am sure Brezina is not changing his free skate for next season choreographically to see what happens if he adds a quad or a 3/3 or does more jumps after the halfway point. All of these are possible technical advancements or for more bonus points. I would be surprised if many skaters added quads to the short when so few do quads in the long successfully. Short program seems to be for most the time to be conservative.
    Brezina has said that he will be adding the quad next season. (maybe both). I don't see why the eventual plan couldn't be to put the quads in the short, but I"m thinking if he does that it won't be next season. As for jumps in the second half, he already does a lot of those...


    Talk about Ilia Kulik in 1998, but not about Lysacek in 2010.
    Lysacek was already World medalist in 2005 and was already a medal contender in 2006. He bombed his SP but skated very LP in the LP. So, his Olympic Gold in 2010 is not such a surprise.
    It's not just that, but Lyseck also was one of the most consistent skaters too and one of the better competitors. He struggled with the short early in his career, but he was very good at shooting up in the standings in the long. He was on the world podium for two years in a row before Daisuke. Once Lambiel and Joubert started struggling with consistency/whatever else. It really shouldn't be that surprising that Lyseck started taking advantage. Sure the guy had luck, and no he's not as good as Yagudin. But I think that a guy winning all of the major international competitions from Worlds to the Olympics is pretty darn dominanting. Or its more of a sign that a lot of these guys struggle with consistency/delivering under pressure.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by mia joy View Post
    yeah, but who did deserve to be named an Olympic Champion in Vancouver anyway? that men's event was the most disappointing thing in skating for me in years.
    Agree, it was devastating to watch how my most favourite (Olympic) discipline ended in such a disaster.

  11. #31
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    I'm with you Fandango; it should have been brilliant and it was mediocre and disappointing. I hope these guys on the way up can raise the bar.

  12. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by bek View Post
    Brezina has said that he will be adding the quad next season. (maybe both). I don't see why the eventual plan couldn't be to put the quads in the short, but I"m thinking if he does that it won't be next season. As for jumps in the second half, he already does a lot of those...

    .
    I think the only way Brezina would do something like that is if many skaters did it. Maybe quads only work to win in a mostly all quad environment.

  13. #33
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    My pick is Brezina, but we'll see. I'm not sure right now if Chan is headed upward - he may not get that much better. There's Amodio, Ten, Kozuka (I have a feeling he'll be very strong), the usual suspects who everyone's mentioned. I think though if Jeremy Abbott stays around, and gets over his nerves, he could do something big.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    4 years ago who would have ever predicted Lysacek to be the 2010 Olympic Champion though.
    I'm not sure about champion, but he was a good bet for a medal after coming from 10th in the SP skating sick as a dog and placing third in the FS.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  15. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by caseyedwards View Post
    I think the only way Brezina would do something like that is if many skaters did it. Maybe quads only work to win in a mostly all quad environment.
    I don't think so. If Brezina could do the quads consistently and get decent levels, than his base values will be huge compared to everyone elses. The point is nobody right now can do the jumps and levels consistently.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    I'm not sure about champion, but he was a good bet for a medal after coming from 10th in the SP skating sick as a dog and placing third in the FS.
    4 years is a long time and it is not like he was one of the best skaters at the time of the 2006 Olympics either. In the FS he and Plushenko were the only two who didnt crash and burn and in fact skated absolutely clean which is how he placed 3rd in the FS. Had everyone skated their best he would have been about 7th in Turin.

  17. #37

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    At the 2004 Nationals in Atlanta, I remember not being very impressed with Evan. In fact, a lady in front of me said that "he will be Olympic champion 1 day" and I totally rolled my eyes. I just didn't see it then and the only reason I see it now is because it happened

    So, based on that, perhaps Rippon will be Olympic champion because the first time I saw him skate live, I was really let down. The subsequent times, however, I really warmed to his skating. The difference could be Morozov versus, well, not Morozov, but I'm not sure.

    I like Brezina and all, but I just don't see him as Olympic champion. In all honesty, no one is screaming Olympic gold medalist to me right now and that is actually kind of exciting. I like that there is such a large group of up and comers. I really like Fernandez despite the Morozov factor. Denis Ten is a really exciting skater that I think will really mature with Frank Carroll. I don't know why exactly I've never warmed to Patrick Chan, I generally like arrogant athletes and he has beautiful basics, so I'm not sure what it is.

    I don't remember ever being excited about the men for an upcoming cycle, but it definitely feels the most exciting to me out of the four disciplines.
    Logic is in the eye of the logician --Gloria Steinem

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Had everyone skated their best he would have been about 7th in Turin.
    The reason Lysacek has been a perpetual contender is that he regularly skated his best or close to it, while his main competition routinely did not. Plushenko was the only consistent champion among his competitors, and within a year or so after Turin, he was not in good shape nor was he considered a likely skater to come back.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  19. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    The reason Lysacek has been a perpetual contender is that he regularly skated his best or close to it, while his main competition routinely did not. Plushenko was the only consistent champion among his competitors, and within a year or so after Turin, he was not in good shape nor was he considered a likely skater to come back.
    Exactly. The whole point is what can you do under pressure, not what can you do in practice. Evan is sort of like a Katerina Witt (although in fairness to Witt, Katerina did introduce the 3flip although she wasn't doing it when she was dominating) Really not the best skater technically of his day in age, but the best competitor.

    This is a sport, and if you want to win you have to be able to compete. Its about what you can deliver under pressure, not what you can do in practice.

    It would be wonderful if the champions we got all the time were people like Asada, Kim, Yagudin, but those types of skaters are special because they are rare.
    Last edited by bek; 05-18-2010 at 04:02 PM.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    The reason Lysacek has been a perpetual contender is that he regularly skated his best or close to it, while his main competition routinely did not. Plushenko was the only consistent champion among his competitors, and within a year or so after Turin, he was not in good shape nor was he considered a likely skater to come back.
    Evan was not that consistent a skater either himself back in 2006. He pretty much never did 2 clean programs. The only times he did clean longs are when he had screwed up the short. There was no reason to believe he was suddenly going to morph into that at that point in time, nor that mens skating was going to become the chaotic mess it has been the last 2 years.

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