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  1. #781

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    The first lift they used it in 2007 circa I would say. An adaptation of Marina and Gwendal olympic lift or the one in "Danse mon Esmeralda".
    The second is a variation they used two seasons ago and never used again after the first grand prix.
    The third one is new to me, for them.
    poths Void: MarieM carries a rusty old blade in her handbag!

  2. #782
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    P/B's FD is very well built IMO. It's just that I don't find it that exciting considering they don't bring anything dramatically new compared to what has been done before.
    On this music it is necessary that the program is compared to what Grishuk/Platov did. Unfortunately I don't find P/B's choreography and interpretation much surprising nor anyway better than G/P. The fact that they start the program almost the same way doesn't help neither.
    The program is "first degree" which is a problem to me, because it's been done already by others. Had they tried something different, with mixes of other rythms or other references, it would have been more exciting to me.
    After watching this program the thing that comes to my mind is that I want to watch G/P's version to see the best interpretation of the music.
    At P/B's level I'm expecting probably more than an adaptation of an old program to the new judging system.

  3. #783
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asli View Post
    Pechalat/Bourzat being whom they are, I was fully expecting their "Egyptian" FD to be about the Arab Spring.
    See, that would be awesome, assuming this is their last Worlds, because they made their Worlds debut with their Che Guevera FD in 2004. Nice symmetry.

    I just can't help be disappointed. I love The Feeling Begins and most programs to it, whether it be G&P, Yagudin, Engi & Toth, Baiul, N&K. P&B's doesn't particularly wow me. It's not bad, but it doesn't stand out at all.

    They have always been such a creative team, getting ideas from outside of skating, using dance choreographers and so on. Considering the Worlds are in France and this is their best shot ever at a medal, and maybe the last, I expected something grand, like the culmination of all of their voidy ideas from over the years. Instead, it kinda feels like they ran out of ideas.

    I agree that the program is packed, and the arm movements are very well done, but I think all the stops do not serve them. The choreo doesn't highlight the beautiful edges and flow they developed under Zhulin, especially last season. That will hurt them vs the Shibutanis.

  4. #784

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    I didn't mind P&B's FD but I wish they would have used The Feeling Begins for the whole program. I notice some people are comparing them to G&P - what's the point!? There's no point in comparing pre-CoP programs to CoP ones.

    Looking forward to seeing P&B at Skate Canada.

  5. #785
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherub721 View Post
    I just can't help be disappointed. I love The Feeling Begins and most programs to it, whether it be G&P, Yagudin, Engi & Toth, Baiul, N&K. P&B's doesn't particularly wow me. It's not bad, but it doesn't stand out at all.

    They have always been such a creative team, getting ideas from outside of skating, using dance choreographers and so on. Considering the Worlds are in France and this is their best shot ever at a medal, and maybe the last, I expected something grand, like the culmination of all of their voidy ideas from over the years. Instead, it kinda feels like they ran out of ideas.

    I agree that the program is packed, and the arm movements are very well done, but I think all the stops do not serve them. The choreo doesn't highlight the beautiful edges and flow they developed under Zhulin, especially last season. That will hurt them vs the Shibutanis.
    That's my feeling () too. The program is good but it's not outsanding, it's not refreshing, it's not new. And yes, it doesn't highlight their qualities enough to appear clearly superior to the americans. They open a door for other dancers to pass them.

  6. #786
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rafter View Post
    I notice some people are comparing them to G&P - what's the point!? There's no point in comparing pre-CoP programs to CoP ones.
    It may be because P&B use the same choreography at the beggining than G&P. Or also because they choreographed the program with the same spirit as G&P, they used the same persective while others did it differently. And also because G&P are the reference on this music and to get recognition on this music it is important that skaters choose a very personal perspective rather than getting too much inspired by what did the best in the past. Just a few reasons why it is legitimate to make a comparision.

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    Why do so many of you think these will be P/B's last Worlds? Have they said so?
    I think they will definitely aim to Sochi, also the Team France will need them in the team event.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Artifice View Post
    It may be because P&B use the same choreography at the beggining than G&P. Or also because they choreographed the program with the same spirit as G&P, they used the same persective while others did it differently. And also because G&P are the reference on this music and to get recognition on this music it is important that skaters choose a very personal perspective rather than getting too much inspired by what did the best in the past. Just a few reasons why it is legitimate to make a comparision.
    That might be true to a point, but for their 1997 FD G/P (or whoever choreographed that programme) quite mercilessly ripped off Engi/Toth's 1992 FD. Of course, no one remembers poor Engi/Toth

  9. #789
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    Quote Originally Posted by IceIceBaby View Post
    Why do so many of you think these will be P/B's last Worlds? Have they said so?
    I think they will definitely aim to Sochi, also the Team France will need them in the team event.
    They've said a number of times now that their going on after Worlds 2012 would depend on their results at said World. There a little chances they'll aim for Sochi if they're not medal contenders.
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  10. #790

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    Oh please lol, P/B have been threatening they will retire since 2006, its the oldest trick in the book ;-)

  11. #791
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    That's why I was so surprised when they said they were aiming for Sochi.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  12. #792
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    That's why I was so surprised when they said they were aiming for Sochi.
    They never said they would definetely retire after Worlds 2012. They will compete there, but their further career will depend on the results and judges opinion: they won't go to Sochi if they are not able to fight for a medal.

  13. #793

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    Quote Originally Posted by IceIceBaby View Post
    Why do so many of you think these will be P/B's last Worlds? Have they said so?
    I think they will definitely aim to Sochi, also the Team France will need them in the team event.
    The US, Canada, and Russia are the huge favorites for that competition. France has a small chance of getting the bronze if the Canadian ladies are weak that season. Japan and China don`t have strong ice dance teams and Zahorski-Miart would probably finish 4th in that field if P/B weren`t there. I doubt that the team competition would affect their decision at all.

  14. #794
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    Their original comments were that they were definitely aiming for Sochi, without the caveat of their placement at 2012 Worlds. I was surprised that they didn't say originally they would take it a year at a time, but lots of teams are very enthusiastic and inspired after an Olympics. I was expecting them to keep the suspense up and to at least hint at retirement regularly.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  15. #795
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLIVER View Post
    Oh please lol, P/B have been threatening they will retire since 2006, its the oldest trick in the book ;-)
    Really ? I didn't know. I can talk only about what they told me when I interviewed them last year and last spring and about what I read and heard in other interviews. It certainly didn't sound like any sort of threat or trick but much more like a carefully thought out and reasonable consideration. Which, by the way, seemed pretty logical to me, considering their age and career.
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  16. #796

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    Quote Originally Posted by kirkbiggestfan View Post
    The US, Canada, and Russia are the huge favorites for that competition. France has a small chance of getting the bronze if the Canadian ladies are weak that season. Japan and China don`t have strong ice dance teams and Zahorski-Miart would probably finish 4th in that field if P/B weren`t there. I doubt that the team competition would affect their decision at all.
    I think the bigger obstacle for Japan would be the lack of an Olympic-eligible pair. But yes, I agree, France has an outside shot at best.

    I don't recall P/B saying they'll retire in recent years. Obviously they were unhappy with their training situation before leaving Lyon, but that's hardly the same thing. IIRC, there was an interview back in 2009 in which Pechalat said she was very committed to continuing their competitive career, ice dance was her passion etc; I believe it was implied they were going to stick with it for some time.

  17. #797
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    Quote Originally Posted by kirkbiggestfan View Post
    The US, Canada, and Russia are the huge favorites for that competition. France has a small chance of getting the bronze if the Canadian ladies are weak that season. Japan and China don`t have strong ice dance teams and Zahorski-Miart would probably finish 4th in that field if P/B weren`t there. I doubt that the team competition would affect their decision at all.
    Surely Carron/Jones would be selected for the team competition before Zahorsky/Miart?

  18. #798
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    Does Jones have/will he have citizenship for Sochi?
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  19. #799
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    In theory, he probably won't, since he needs to have lived in France for five years and he didn't team up with Carron until the spring of 2009.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_...Naturalisation
    http://www.isuresults.com/bios/isufs00012355.htm

    Of course, he might have moved to Lyon long enough before officially teaming up with Carron to meet the residency requirement.

    OTOH, Vanessa James obtained citizenship after living in France for only two years, and she doesn't appear to have the criteria listed on the Wikipedia page linked above. Go figure.

  20. #800

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    In theory, he probably won't, since he needs to have lived in France for five years and he didn't team up with Carron until the spring of 2009.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_...Naturalisation
    http://www.isuresults.com/bios/isufs00012355.htm

    Of course, he might have moved to Lyon long enough before officially teaming up with Carron to meet the residency requirement.

    OTOH, Vanessa James obtained citizenship after living in France for only two years, and she doesn't appear to have the criteria listed on the Wikipedia page linked above. Go figure.
    He was in France quite some time before that, IIRC he went there in Spring 2008. I don't know if he was officially resident, but he definitely trained in Lyon and had a couple of brief partnerships, I think Danielle Bennett, and then a French girl - I think her name was Elodie? (That is from memory so might be completely wrong!)
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