2010-2011 US Senior Ladies

[Polymer Bob]

Perhaps you mean "ratings", not "rankings".

[Sylvia]

Vanessa Lam, who turned 15 in June and was 8th in Junior at 2010 U.S. Nationals, won the Senior Ladies event at the Golden West club competition this past weekend with a total score of 158.19, which happens to be the second highest score this summer.

For those who like to keep track of summer competition scores , here is the current Top Ten:
Christina Gao 159.07 (Skate Detroit) - bye to Nationals
Vanessa Lam 158.19 (Golden West) - SWP
Kristiene Gong 153.92 (Glacier Falls) - SWP
Agnes Zawadzki 153.82 (Liberty) - SW; bye through Mids to Nationals
Ashley Wagner 153.17 (Skate Wilmington) - bye to Nationals
Rachael Flatt 149.33 (Glacier Falls) - bye to Nationals
Samantha Cesario 147.26 (Liberty) - NA
Lindsay Davis 135.77 (Glacier Falls) - SWP
Karen Zhou 135.03 (US Collegiates) - SWP
Yasmin Siraj 131.48 (Liberty) - NE

The Southwest Pacific (SWP) region is shaping up to be the deepest/most competitive of the 9 Regionals for Senior ladies this October.

[jlai]

I see what you're saying, but IMO, if a skater is good enough, has earned a spot or has been chosen to represent the U.S. on the Grand Prix series, they're worthy of a direct bye to Nationals. I know it can get tricky with people withdrawing from GP events at the last minute, but that's more of the exception rather than the rule.

Theoretically I think skaters with 2 gps should get a bye, but USFSA doesn't seem to require good summer monitoring as a condition for fall assignments, so we occasionally end up with gp skaters who get byes but have rather poor international performances. Then fans grumble. Perhaps a stricter monitoring system could take care of that?

I also wonder about skaters like Carriere. He competes at SA, so he gets a sectional bye right? Yet he withdrew from last year's nationals, so in a way, the ISU assignments are "dictating" to an extent who gets to compete at US nationals. Not sure if there's a way around that though.

[pinky166]

Vanessa Lam, who turned 15 in June and was 8th in Junior at 2010 U.S. Nationals, won the Senior Ladies event at the Golden West club competition this past weekend with a total score of 158.19, which happens to be the second highest score this summer.

For those who like to keep track of summer competition scores , here is the current Top Ten:
Christina Gao 159.07 (Skate Detroit) - bye to Nationals
Vanessa Lam 158.19 (Golden West) - SWP
Kristiene Gong 153.92 (Glacier Falls) - SWP
Agnes Zawadzki 153.82 (Liberty) - SW; bye through Mids to Nationals
Ashley Wagner 153.17 (Skate Wilmington) - bye to Nationals
Rachael Flatt 149.33 (Glacier Falls) - bye to Nationals
Samantha Cesario 147.26 (Liberty) - NA
Lindsay Davis 135.77 (Glacier Falls) - SWP
Karen Zhou 135.03 (US Collegiates) - SWP
Yasmin Siraj 131.48 (Liberty) - NE

The Southwest Pacific (SWP) region is shaping up to be the deepest/most competitive of the 9 Regionals for Senior ladies this October.

What did I tell people about Christina? It seems to me that she is living up to her hype, and what's better is that score she posted was at the very beginning of the summer and she achieved it without using all her jumping passes (she did two combos only, and each one only had 2 jumps, had she done another 3 jump combo her score would have been even higher)

[Sylvia]

What did I tell people about Christina? It seems to me that she is living up to her hype,

You mean YOUR hype? Some fans like to hype the younger generation of skaters, while other fans, like me, prefer to take a "wait-and-see" attitude as the season progresses. I am pleased to see Christina Gao's improvements in her skating so far this summer, and am really looking forward to seeing how she does at her first international (JGP Austria) in 2 weeks.

(jlai, yes re. Carriere. I've listed the known sectional byes in the Senior Men's thread: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/show...8&postcount=29 )

ETA:

Theoretically I think skaters with 2 gps should get a bye, but USFSA doesn't seem to require good summer monitoring as a condition for fall assignments, so we occasionally end up with gp skaters who get byes but have rather poor international performances. Then fans grumble. Perhaps a stricter monitoring system could take care of that?

But I don't think a "stricter monitoring system" by USFS in the summer should result in Grand Prix assignments (which are based primarily on the previous season's international results) being taken away from skaters? USFS can only control which U.S. skaters are assigned to Skate America, and at least they have been leaving SA TBA spots open to reward skaters/teams that monitor well in the summer.

[haribobo]

What did I tell people about Christina? It seems to me that she is living up to her hype

Yes, all hail the might pinky. You are sooooo amazing and prognostic! Please pinky, tell us the sekret of your ways?

[gracieboo]

What did I tell people about Christina? It seems to me that she is living up to her hype, and what's better is that score she posted was at the very beginning of the summer and she achieved it without using all her jumping passes (she did two combos only, and each one only had 2 jumps, had she done another 3 jump combo her score would have been even higher)

Vanessa had a fall in the short and two falls in the long and still received the highest score in the competition by over 44 points. Her artistry has immensely improved from what I saw last season.

http://allyearfsc.com/events/GOLDEN_...orLadiesFS.HTM

does anyone have a link to Gao's program? I would love to see her new program!

[jlai]

But I don't think a "stricter monitoring system" by USFS in the summer should result in Grand Prix assignments (which are based primarily on the previous season's international results) being taken away from skaters? USFS can only control which U.S. skaters are assigned to Skate America, and at least they have been leaving SA TBA spots open to reward skaters/teams that monitor well in the summer.

As I said, there's no good way around the issue, as the byes due to GP assignments are shaping the US nationals competitor list and are not completely within USFSA control. (Which I think is a bit weird. USFSA should have complete control over who compete at their own nationals to make sure the best get there.)

The only things I can think of is 1) closer monitoring prior to international assignments and 2) being more stringent with byes. Or a combination of both.

ETA: Here's another thought: USFS could spread out the sectionals through two weekends, so a lower-ranked skater going to, say, Skate America, will still go to a sectionals the weekend before or after (eta: if that skater does poorly in the gp, say 10th, 11th or sth). In those cases, that skater isn't required to be in any skating club within that region. That would be a drastic reform of the regional/sectionals/bye system though.

[pinky166]

Vanessa had a fall in the short and two falls in the long and still received the highest score in the competition by over 44 points. Her artistry has immensely improved from what I saw last season.

http://allyearfsc.com/events/GOLDEN_...orLadiesFS.HTM

does anyone have a link to Gao's program? I would love to see her new program!

SP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qldotckIovU
FS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMsz5...eature=related

[pinky166]

Yes, all hail the might pinky. You are sooooo amazing and prognostic! Please pinky, tell us the sekret of your ways?

Well, my predictions about nationals and the Olympics actually turned out to be correct - Mirai going, Sasha not going, Alissa bombing, Christina beating Caroline....

Further, I've seen Christina skate live, so that makes a difference.

[oleada]

Further, I've seen Christina skate live, so that makes a difference.

So have a lot of people on this forum.

The only thing you are doing with your incessant hyping of Christina is:

a. setting her up for failure if she doesn't meet the lofty expectations you've set out of her.
b. disappointment and criticism when/if she does falter, or when people see her and she's not the next savior of figure skating like you've described her to be
c. create animosity toward her from people who haven't even seen her skate because you won't shut up about her.

I like Sylvia's wait-and-see approach.

[sk9tingfan]

So have a lot of people on this forum.

The only thing you are doing with your incessant hyping of Christina is:

a. setting her up for failure if she doesn't meet the lofty expectations you've set out of her.
b. disappointment and criticism when/if she does falter, or when people see her and she's not the next savior of figure skating like you've described her to be
c. create animosity toward her from people who haven't even seen her skate because you won't shut up about her.

I like Sylvia's wait-and-see approach.

I absolutely agree with you and Sylvia. That would apply not only to Gao but also every other skater. IMO, it's those skaters and their coaches who are circumspect and promise little but deliver much and/or the unexpected who are in the best position. I can think of a particular coach and skater(s) who haven't learned that lesson and have consistently set themselves up for relative failure.

[JerseySlore]

I absolutely agree with you and Sylvia. That would apply not only to Gao but also every other skater. IMO, it's those skaters and their coaches who are circumspect and promise little but deliver much and/or the unexpected who are in the best position. I can think of a particular coach and skater(s) who haven't learned that lesson and have consistently set themselves up for relative failure.

Word.

[pinky166]

I hope you guys know that I say all this lightheartedly - it's fun to pick favorites or up-and-comers and then wait and see what happens, if you're predictions are right, then it's a nice bonus, but if they aren't, then it's still interesting to see the outcome and try to understand why it turned out that way.

So if Christina bombs at nationals this year, it will be just as interesting to see as if she wins nationals this year, I personally think she won't bomb, but things happen and all that. If anything the summer results show just how unpredictable skaters can be, seeing Gong ahead of Flatt, etc. But I like to make predictions/wishes in advance because if they turn out to be right then it's cool. I always liked Yuna better than Mao but watching them back in 05 and 06 I never thought Yuna would ever surpass Mao, but then she did, so it was fun to see.

[sk9tingfan]

Word.

[JerseySlore]

Meant 'well said'

[chipso1]

I hope you guys know that I say all this lightheartedly - it's fun to pick favorites or up-and-comers and then wait and see what happens, if you're predictions are right, then it's a nice bonus, but if they aren't, then it's still interesting to see the outcome and try to understand why it turned out that way.

So if Christina bombs at nationals this year, it will be just as interesting to see as if she wins nationals this year, I personally think she won't bomb, but things happen and all that. If anything the summer results show just how unpredictable skaters can be, seeing Gong ahead of Flatt, etc. But I like to make predictions/wishes in advance because if they turn out to be right then it's cool. I always liked Yuna better than Mao but watching them back in 05 and 06 I never thought Yuna would ever surpass Mao, but then she did, so it was fun to see.

Yes, we understand why you're hyping her, but it's beginning to sound like a broken record at this point.

[sk9tingfan]

Meant 'well said'

Thank you, JerseySlore!

[gkelly]

As I said, there's no good way around the issue, as the byes due to GP assignments are shaping the US nationals competitor list and are not completely within USFSA control. (Which I think is a bit weird. USFSA should have complete control over who compete at their own nationals to make sure the best get there.)

How do they know who are the best? The skaters have to have competed in the past to earn that consideration. If they were top 5 in seniors at Nationals last year, then they're in. Otherwise, they have to prove themselves. If they really are the best, they'll get there.

By "complete control," are you talking about trying to get the very best skater in to Nationals, or trying to keep the not-good-enough skaters out? Because in between there's a whole group of skaters who are more or less as good as each other, good enough not to embarrass themselves at Nationals or senior B/JGP events and to defeat any other skater in that group depending who's having a good day whenever they compete against each other. If you're using several months of results from different events with different fields and different judging panels at different times of the season, there may not be a clear way to tell who's the "15th-best US senior lady" and who's the "25th-best." You'd have to let them all compete against each other directly to sort it out, and even then they might switch places between short program and long.

If some are qualifying to Nationals through JGP or senior B or Grand Prix byes and others are qualifying through sectionals, and if the number of slots at Nationals and the number of byes is limited, it's always possible that any given deserving skater will miss out this year.

The only things I can think of is 1) closer monitoring prior to international assignments and 2) being more stringent with byes. Or a combination of both.

Closer monitoring will help in deciding which skaters to send to JGP and senior B internationals and to Skate America. Thinning out deep sectional fields could be one consideration in deciding whom to send where, but it's not the only factor.

For foreign Grand Prixs it won't help much. If USFS thinks a skater with a foreign GP assignment didn't look good in monitoring, forbidding them to accept the invitation isn't going to guarantee that the host federation will replace them with another US skater. It might just mean one less US skater on the Grand Prix and one less skater at Nationals.

ETA: Here's another thought: USFS could spread out the sectionals through two weekends, so a lower-ranked skater going to, say, Skate America, will still go to a sectionals the weekend before or after (eta: if that skater does poorly in the gp, say 10th, 11th or sth).

Again, that's not going to help get any other deserving skaters to Nationals -- if anything, it could mean that someone who otherwise could have gone will have to stay home.

All this "closer monitoring" would achieve in these cases would be to keep some borderline-national-quality skaters out of Nationals. Which could make Nationals slightly smaller and less expensive. It won't do much to help other borderline skaters that by some criteria might seem more deserving.

[LilJen]

I have hearsay information that Kimmie is not planning on competing this season. I guess we'll have to wait until the qualifying season begins for an official confirmation.