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  1. #361
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    Quote Originally Posted by her grace View Post
    I wonder if the reason that byes aren't automatically given to each skater with 2 GPs is to reduce the number of total skaters at nationals. The more skaters, the more expensive the event.
    Maybe. I would sort of feel sorry for the 5th place finisher at Midwestern sectionals though if she didn't make it to nationals because Alissa with 2 GPs competed and "took up" one of the spots that qualify for nationals. This potentially could be Kiri and it would be sad if we didn't see her at nationals.

  2. #362
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    I think what her grace posted actually is on target.

    The "name" (ISP) skaters in the Midwestern section that currently don't have a bye to Nationals are 3 -- Czisny, Kiri Baga (unless she qualifies for the JGP Final) and Becky Bereswill (who has started pairs this season). It's not a very deep section in this regard compared to Easterns and Pacific Coasts.

    Quote Originally Posted by RFOS View Post
    If she [Alissa Czisny] qualified to the Grand Prix final then she would get a bye to Nationals.

    ETA: Well, I didn't check the dates of her GP events first.
    Actually, even though Czisny's 2nd GP -- TEB -- is after Mids, she still technically could receive a bye to Nationals if she qualified for the GP Final even in the unlikely event of not qualifying though Mids.
    Last edited by Sylvia; 09-05-2010 at 03:30 PM.

  3. #363
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    I think what her grace posted actually is on target.
    It seems like every year, the season starts with a lot of hand-wringing about the cost of running Nationals, especially additional byes that increase the number of practice groups, and then by the time things get underway, the logic of making a skater with two GPs show up at Sectionals in between the GPs sets in, and skaters usually seem to end up with a bye. (Yes, adding additional skaters to Nationals can cost money, but so does sending a skater to a GP: giving the bye to Nationals is protecting the investment in the GP, but this is fall reasoning; summer reasoning is "How can we cut the size of Nationals?")

    Actually, even though Czisny's 2nd GP -- TEB -- is after Mids, she still technically could receive a bye to Nationals if she qualified for the GP Final even in the unlikely event of not qualifying though Mids.
    Hmm, I'm not sure that's actually true. Technically, a skater who has a bye through a competition and competes anyway, placing below fourth, loses their bye. I can't recall a situation in which a skater earned their GP bye after not qualifying. Let's hope we don't have to find out!

    Of course, Mids is 70 minutes from Czisny's homebase. She has a tendency to do a lot of small competitions and may be just as happy to show up at sectionals!

  4. #364
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5Ali3 View Post
    Of course, Mids is 70 minutes from Czisny's homebase. She has a tendency to do a lot of small competitions and may be just as happy to show up at sectionals!
    True... She could also sprain an ankle the day of Sectionals, be unable to compete, and therefore not qualify to Nationals while all the other skaters who were assigned 2 GPs are home without a care in the world about having to qualify.

    I realize it gets more expensive the more skaters you have at Nationals, but it also needs to be as fair as possible. Just about all of the skaters with 2 GPs are going to end up with byes anyway... Why not just make it an actual rule so nobody gets left out due to the luck of which GPs they get?

    Qualifying to Nationals is supposed to be an accomplishment... It would feel like more of an accomplishment to receive a bye because you are talented enough to represent your country internationally in 2 GPs rather than because you lucked out with a scheduling conflict.

  5. #365

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    I'm sure they are giving a bye at the junior level to skaters with 2 JGPs to make the group of potential stars as big as possible.

    At the senior level, perhaps they feel if someone was going to emerge they would have done so already. Their incentive is less to make the pool as large as possible.

    But they don't have to "guess" about that if they switch from a "top 4 @ regional" qualification system to qualifying score system. Just saying...

    Maybe they'd consider something similar to a PGA cut for determining the field at nationals, like the highest 20 scores from the previous 12 months. They'd take 24 skaters over all, with four spots reserved for injury byes or skaters ranked 21-24. The added plus of this system is the various fields are ALWAYS 24 skaters.

    They also wouldn't have to lock themselves into a formal rule that gives a skater a bye to nationals if he/she/they have 2 GPs. 9 times out of ten, someone with two GPs will have earned a qualifying score, but in the event they haven't, then they don't go to Nationals.

    And for the qualifying score system, they'd have to figure out a formula that takes into account the variances between judging panels, even though they shouldn't exist.
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  6. #366

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coco View Post
    I'm sure they are giving a bye at the junior level to skaters with 2 JGPs to make the group of potential stars as big as possible.
    They are giving (or have in the past, at least) byes through regionals to all the 2-JGP skaters. They still have to do sectionals unless they make the JGPF.

    5Ali3- that instance has never occurred where a skater placed out of the top 4 at Reg/Sec then made GPF. I'm sure that in the wacky event it ever does happen, USFS will move heaven and earth to get that skater to Nationals. I'm not sure if there's an actual rule in the book for that instance, but I think we all know what would happen.

  7. #367

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    Quote Originally Posted by haribobo View Post
    5Ali3- that instance has never occurred where a skater placed out of the top 4 at Reg/Sec then made GPF. I'm sure that in the wacky event it ever does happen, USFS will move heaven and earth to get that skater to Nationals. I'm not sure if there's an actual rule in the book for that instance, but I think we all know what would happen.

    It would be so strange if that happened.

  8. #368
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    More of the same for Sasha?

    Quote Originally Posted by longingfornia View Post
    Sasha would Def be a huge threat to be US National Champ if she is injury free
    After last year's results? Seems like more of the same from her past competitions, to me anyway.

  9. #369
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    Quote Originally Posted by haribobo View Post

    5Ali3- that instance has never occurred where a skater placed out of the top 4 at Reg/Sec then made GPF. I'm sure that in the wacky event it ever does happen, USFS will move heaven and earth to get that skater to Nationals. I'm not sure if there's an actual rule in the book for that instance, but I think we all know what would happen.
    Somebody posted on another board that making the Grand Prix Final is an automatic bye to Nationals.

  10. #370

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    Quote Originally Posted by haribobo View Post
    5Ali3- that instance has never occurred where a skater placed out of the top 4 at Reg/Sec then made GPF. I'm sure that in the wacky event it ever does happen, USFS will move heaven and earth to get that skater to Nationals. I'm not sure if there's an actual rule in the book for that instance, but I think we all know what would happen.
    Very true. But remember when Doug Razzano was an alternate for the JGPF, and everyone knew that a Russian skater who qualified was withdrawing, giving Razzano a bye to Nats? Razzano had to compete at Sectionals, made the top 4, and then went to the JGPF. The 5th place finisher did not get to take his 'spot' at Nats. That's what would suck. If Czisny placed in the top 4 at her Sectional, then made the GPF. The 5th place girl would be left home, even though she was rightly the 4th place girl.

  11. #371

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    What's even more crazy is that the 5th place lady in seniors at Mids will likely be outskated by the 5th place junior lady there. And the 5th place Mids junior lady may end up outskating ALL the junior ladies at Easterns. So I guess that's why I can't get too worked up over Czisny taking up a spot...even the 4th place Mids senior lady will be lucky she wasn't at Pac Coasts this year.

  12. #372
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    Quote Originally Posted by haribobo View Post
    What's even more crazy is that the 5th place lady in seniors at Mids will likely be outskated by the 5th place junior lady there. And the 5th place Mids junior lady may end up outskating ALL the junior ladies at Easterns. So I guess that's why I can't get too worked up over Czisny taking up a spot...
    Yeah I know, Mids for junior ladies will be intense. I would be worried about Nina but she's doing much better now and plus the judges love her.

  13. #373
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    I thought the bye situation got a little out of hand last year, so I'm not surprised USFSA is more cautious with byes whether it is due to costs or past criticisms.

    That said, I don't thnk people will put up a fuss if skaters like Czisny get a bye.

  14. #374
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    It's looking like some of the Grand Prix Senior ladies with byes through Sectionals still may have to compete at heir respective Regionals -- Dobbs (CP), Musademba (SA), Gilles & Zawadzki (SW). Fortunately, as long as they place in the top 4 of their Regional (to be eligible for their bye from Sectionals to Nationals), none of them should take a Sectionals spot from the 5th or 6th (in SW) place finisher at Regionals.

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    I would hope that the USFS would give any skater with 2 SGP events a bye to Nationals. That's a lot of competition in a short amount of time, and to have to skate at a Regional event on top of that seems a little excessive, IMO.

  16. #376
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    jgp final qualifiers deserve a bye. They earn them.

    GP byes are tricky. On one hand, it's too much to compete at 2 gps and do regionals and/or sectionals, but once in a while, people gripe over skaters who get gp slots --and therefore earning a bye--when their results aren't so spectacular,so we don't know if they would have made it out of their sectionals.

    Quote Originally Posted by 5Ali3 View Post
    I can't recall a situation in which a skater earned their GP bye after not qualifying. Let's hope we don't have to find out!
    There's that situation with Megan Oster, but she withdrew from both GPs after not qualifying for regionals. I remember much talk about that, and a lot of discussion about Emily Hughes another year doing gps and earning byes after doing rather poorly at regionals one year. And also last year, should Meissner get a bye to nationals after not competing at nationals the year before? She eventually lost the bye, but the rule would have allowed her to compete in Spokane had she done her gp. In cases like this, it should be either bye all the way (because that gp withdrawal eventually cost her the spot at nationals) or no bye at all (making her prove herself from the getgo).
    Last edited by jlai; 09-06-2010 at 01:33 AM.

  17. #377
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    Didn't the USFSA send Emily to Skate America last year because they knew there was a good chance she wouldn't get out of sectionals considering the score she put up at regionals? But it would be good for rankings if she competed at nationals where she is a former Olympian, and rankings/drama matter I guess.

  18. #378

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    I think her score at Regionals (139+) would have put her in 3rd place at Sectionals. She only scored about a point higher at Nats (140+). Both of which were slightly better than her score at SA (135+). Not sure what you mean about rankings, though.
    My job requires me to be a juggler, but that does not mean that I enjoy working with clowns.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jlai View Post
    GP byes are tricky. On one hand, it's too much to compete at 2 gps and do regionals and/or sectionals, but once in a while, people gripe over skaters who get gp slots --and therefore earning a bye--when their results aren't so spectacular,so we don't know if they would have made it out of their sectionals.
    I see what you're saying, but IMO, if a skater is good enough, has earned a spot or has been chosen to represent the U.S. on the Grand Prix series, they're worthy of a direct bye to Nationals. I know it can get tricky with people withdrawing from GP events at the last minute, but that's more of the exception rather than the rule.

  20. #380
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nomad View Post
    I think her score at Regionals (139+) would have put her in 3rd place at Sectionals. She only scored about a point higher at Nats (140+). Both of which were slightly better than her score at SA (135+). Not sure what you mean about rankings, though.
    I just meant it would add to the intensity/drama if Emily was at nationals where she had already gone to the Olympics and was making a "comeback".

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