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  1. #101

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    Quote Originally Posted by *Jen* View Post
    Are you able to take your sister or a friend to the meeting tomorrow?
    She's a grown woman! If she needs a witness for any reason, it should be an employee or someone like than. To take a friend, relative, or spouse reeks unprofessionalism and emotional instability. People shouldn't take relative and friends to meetings at their work, not for emotional support or any other reason. This goes for mature aged, working there for ages employees, and college kids work experience. The work place is a place you need to stand on your own two feet, they're paying you, not your relative.

    Don't forget, they may have a legitimate reason to fire BaileyCatts, she was accessing information that she wasn't supposed to be accessing. And she lied about it. The first would be cause for dismissal in many work places, the latter combined with the first? Not much leg to stand on.


    Quote Originally Posted by BaileyCatts View Post
    No I was still at home since I don't work until 9am, so it was basically to prevent me from coming to work.
    Spend this time writing the letter of explanation instead of working out what you want to take with you. It will not make any difference to the decision, but the longer you wait (it should have been done as soon as you were sent home IMO), the harder it will be and the less it will matter. You have had ample time now to send the letter/email, have you? You should send it before the meeting. You need to take responsibility for your actions, while still explaining (as unemotionally as possible), that they were accidental.

    (((((BaileyCatts)))))) I really feel for you.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelskates View Post
    She's a grown woman! If she needs a witness for any reason, it should be an employee or someone like than. To take a friend, relative, or spouse reeks unprofessionalism and emotional instability. People shouldn't take relative and friends to meetings at their work.

    I thought it was a very strange suggestion as well, but then I just figured I at first misunderstood and Jen meant have someone drive her to the meeting and wait in the car, or in a close by coffee shop or something. I couldn't imagine she really meant actually attend the meeting with her, or even enter the building. I wouldn't suggest having someone even wait outside for me, if it was me, but maybe Jen was just thinking of how Baileycatts handled this last week?


    Baileycatts, I agree now that your focus should be on preparing for a calm, professional meeting tomorrow. Since you've had this job for so long, it is really your only reference for any future job prospects, and you want to leave with as little trouble as possible, if that's what it's coming to tomorrow.

    Worrying about your stuff probably isn't the most productive use of this time. I'm sure you'll get back anything of value. And whatever the other people in your office might be gossiping about is probably the absolute worst waste of your valuable prep time right now.


    And if you are let go tomorrow, which seems quite possible considering how they are handling this, I agree with those who are saying in the long run, this might be one of the best things that ever happened. For as much as you say you loved this job, and looked forward to going to work each day, it doesn't sound like a very healthy environment. It actually sounds horrible, what with the personality conflicts you've mentioned.


    Get a good night's sleep, be prepared for tomorrow, stay calm and good luck.

  3. #103
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    What about my stuff? I know that's not really the important thing anymore, but I have 22 years worth of stuff there.
    If you are going to request that you clean out your desk yourself, then you also need to protect yourself by getting a receipt/letter from them that you returned everything belonging to them in working order. Get the receipt/letter while you still have their keys or some other property of theirs in your hand. Shady employers have been known to falsely claim that an ex-employee made off with some workplace equipment, especially when said ex-employee has filed for unemployment and/or the parting was under bad terms which is how this deal sounds.

    I second the other sentiments that you be very careful what you sign. Don't fall for the line that, "You're only signing this list of accusations to verify you received them." Nuh-uh.

  4. #104
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    Best of luck with the meeting tomorrow. I hate that you are having to go through this. But looking on the bright side....at the least the waiting will be over tomorrow. You should know one way or another. There is some comfort i knowing vs. the unknown.

    I hope that it works out for the best for you. However, if it does come to termination, it is not the end of the world. People have survived worse for centuries. You never know what is waiting on you just around the corner. It might be a better job...a new adventure...meeting the people you've always wanted in your life. Sometims things happen in life to get us out of our comfort zone and force us to make the changes that make us the happiest in the long run.

    Try your best to remain calm during the meeting and get your side of the events out. If they want you to sign anything or demand some sort of decision on the spot from you, calmly tell them that you have not been in this position before and would like some time to think about it. You can even say you want 24/48 hours to consider it. They have kept you waiting for an answer so the fate of the world won't be in shambles because you won't sign something immediately.

    If they do announce that they are letting you go, it is appropriate for you to ask about how they will respond to inquires for references. They don't want to have you out there saying bad things about them and vice versa.

  5. #105
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    I've had to terminate people over the years. My gut reaction to this is that even if they do not fire you, find something else. I agree that they are trying to slow things down and cooler heads are prevailing, but this is a giant ball of shit.

  6. #106

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    Great ideas here. Seems we have a couple of key "to do" items.
    - Be calm and professional
    - If you will be staying (probably on probation), thank them, then read your written statement and give it to them for your file. Then clarify the return to work rules and the process for getting off probation.
    - If you are being fired, they will give you papers to sign, including your COBRA notices. Make sure you understand the process for signing up for COBRA. DO NOT waive your COBRA rights until you are absolutely sure you will not need to sign up. Then, read your statement of circumstances and hand it to them. Finally, ask these questions. 1) May I have a copy of the termination notification that is going to the State unemployment office?, 2) How will the company handle requests for verification of employment, 3) May I make an appointment to get my personal belongings from my work area?

    I can't stress enough to stay calm and professional. Take deep breaths and make sure you FOCUS on what's being said. They're not looking forward to this meeting, either. When it's over, you want them saying "Well, she handled it professionally."
    AceOn6, the golf loving skating fan

  7. #107

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    Quote Originally Posted by Norlite View Post
    I thought it was a very strange suggestion as well, but then I just figured I at first misunderstood and Jen meant have someone drive her to the meeting and wait in the car, or in a close by coffee shop or something. I couldn't imagine she really meant actually attend the meeting with her, or even enter the building. I wouldn't suggest having someone even wait outside for me, if it was me, but maybe Jen was just thinking of how Baileycatts handled this last week?
    I am, and haven't we passed the point of professionalism here? The ship has sailed and Baileycatts has said that she's not feeling very emotionally secure. I rather think that HR have that idea from her being in tears and the nurse coming to care for her.

    If it were me, I'd take a lawyer friend in, or even a lawyer, and would have sought legal advice last week. I wouldn't take a friend in, either. But Baileycatts has said she's not coping, not eating, not sleeping, can't stop crying so I don't agree with Angelskates at all in this case. There's professionalism, and there's common sense. Anything that helps her to pull through the meeting is fine, since she (and everyone else here) seems to be expecting that she'll be let go.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure it's worth watching.

  8. #108

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    Quote Originally Posted by *Jen* View Post
    I am, and haven't we passed the point of professionalism here?
    No. She still hasn't been fired, and even if she is, how that is taken by the employee is important - for references, for word of mouth, and for life. She's had time to regroup, if she needs the nurse, or even a friend waiting outside, then perhaps, she should take some counselling for coping methods. I'm serious - learning to cope with situations such as this is a life skill. The first time, it was a shock, the second, she's had time to prepare. The reality is, the workplace is not a place for friends and relatives to be offering you support.

    If BaileyCatts absolute needs someone there for support, I would suggest them parking a block away or something, as Norlite said. There is something to be said about people who are fired and don't handle it well - whether that be by crying their eyes out, or getting violence and defensive, and neither look good. Professionalism doesn't end with the job. It's a life skill. BaileyCatts wants to keep a good impression for a reference, but also because word of mouth and news travels.

    If I were BaileyCatts, I would have sought counselling (both for coping skills and possibly career/life) rather than a lawyer last week, and written this initial letter of explanation BaileyCatts first asked about, as well as looking into unemployment benefits and the like. It doesn't sound like that letter has been sent, and to me, this is a problem. I certainly wouldn't take a lawyer or lawyer friend in, I wouldn't suggest taking anyone in. What would be your reaction as a boss?

    BaileyCatts knows she hasn't handled this well from the start, but she has a chance to redeem herself in some small way by regrouping and going to the meeting prepared. To me, that means going it alone, composed, as calm as possible, and with a letter of explanation already written, and preferably already sent.
    Last edited by Angelskates; 05-18-2010 at 02:38 PM.

  9. #109

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrr50 View Post
    I've had to terminate people over the years. My gut reaction to this is that even if they do not fire you, find something else. I agree that they are trying to slow things down and cooler heads are prevailing, but this is a giant ball of shit.
    Without question - if they do not fire you, you have to start looking for another job, immediately.
    Use Yah Blinkah!

  10. #110

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    You are in my thoughts.
    Stay strong and calm.
    You are not alone.

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by BaileyCatts View Post
    Is it okay for me to ask if I can be escorted to my desk AFTER HOURS when no one is there so I can make sure I get everything back?
    My company terminated someone a couple of Fridays ago, and they offered to let him come in on Saturday to gather his things to save him any embarrassment he might have felt over the situation. Unfortunately, he opted to pack his desk right then and there and be disruptive to the office on his way out. Sigh...

    Crying and getting emotional does nothing but fuel the fires and make them think, "Wow, we're glad she's gone!" Whatever happens, hold your head high and walk out of there with some pride.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by BaileyCatts View Post
    I have worked there for 22 years!!!! Yes, I admit to having an attitude problem and I don't get along with the other girls, and people think I am 'unapproachable' when I am not. I am just very very introverted so people think I'm a bytch. Frankly I don't talk to people unless they talk to me. Yes, I have a sucky personality, I admit it. But I am a good, hard worker, I show up on time for work every day (unlike the other girls who seem to get away with showing up whenever they want), I do my job, I do it well, I get good performance reviews, I was even rated a 1 (the best) in 2008! Am I really going to get fired over this??????
    This has really struck a cord because I have had very similar experiences when I first started working.

    At the end of the day you might be the best worker in the world but it doesn't mean a thing if only you know that.

    What counts at the end of the day is how you come across to other people.

  13. #113

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    This has really struck a cord because I have had very similar experiences when I first started working.

    At the end of the day you might be the best worker in the world but it doesn't mean a thing if only you know that.

    What counts at the end of the day is how you come across to other people.
    There was a book that came out a few months ago on traits of successful people - and the author's conclusion was that what other people thought of you was the most important factor in acheiving success. Having the *right people* think you are skilled or work hard is crucial to opening doors, moreso than actually being skilled or working hard.
    What would Jenny do?

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by snoopy View Post
    There was a book that came out a few months ago on traits of successful people - and the author's conclusion was that what other people thought of you was the most important factor in acheiving success. Having the *right people* think you are skilled or work hard is crucial to opening doors, moreso than actually being skilled or working hard.
    At the same time, you have to come across like you're actually competent and not just a good salesperson who only talks about him/herself. Many scientists, unfortunately, are the latter. Which is why it was so refreshing when a speaker came into our workplace and seemed really genuinely interested in our work and at the same time it was clear she was at the top of her field because she was so knowledgeable.

    You have to approach it via collaboration, not "I have to remind everybody what a great job I'm doing," because people can see through that. But collaboration definitely means being able to talk with other people, not being closed in. A company is not a one-person show. If you're self-employed, you can do that. But if you're working with others, you have to be open.

  15. #115

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    This has really struck a cord because I have had very similar experiences when I first started working.

    At the end of the day you might be the best worker in the world but it doesn't mean a thing if only you know that.

    What counts at the end of the day is how you come across to other people.
    Indeed, my first work experience was pretty much like that, I learnt that it's much more important to seem like you are working hard than to actually work hard and be competent, I've never been very good in the pretend department so I didn't play the way I should have i just did my work without bullshits. Lesson learnt, now I work for myself but if that ever changes I'll know in advance what to do.

  16. #116

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    I think it's more than that. The people who get the best reviews and advance fastest at our company fall into the "competent and helpful" category. They are seen by their peers as people who can be counted on for genuine help in a crunch, for useful information, and for getting work done without disrupting the entire organization. Those that get pushed aside may be very competent, but they don't come across as people who pitch in. Many of our most introverted folks are seen as key contributors, mostly because they make their knowledge available and stay aware of where there skills may be needed. They may not stand on top of the desk and yell, "I can help", but they are noticed!
    AceOn6, the golf loving skating fan

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by snoopy View Post
    There was a book that came out a few months ago on traits of successful people - and the author's conclusion was that what other people thought of you was the most important factor in acheiving success. Having the *right people* think you are skilled or work hard is crucial to opening doors, moreso than actually being skilled or working hard.
    Quote Originally Posted by joeperryfan View Post
    Indeed, my first work experience was pretty much like that, I learnt that it's much more important to seem like you are working hard than to actually work hard and be competent, I've never been very good in the pretend department so I didn't play the way I should have i just did my work without bullshits. Lesson learnt, now I work for myself but if that ever changes I'll know in advance what to do.
    Further to what Aceon said above, it's not one or the other - it's both. To get ahead, in most cases, you need to be good at what you do *and* be a team player who contributes positively to the greater good.

    In a previous position where I managed a branch office of a larger firm, my staff knew that two key factors were at play in their performance reviews (and thus promotions and raises): how well they did individually, and how well the company did. They were actually measured on how much they helped others do a good job, as much as what they contributed on their own.

  18. #118

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    Been thinking of you all day. Hope you are doing OK!
    -Brian
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  19. #119
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    Same here, had been thinking about your situation today, hope everything´s fine for you!

  20. #120
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    I am thinking of you as well!!

    HUGS!!!
    Peace & Love, Gypsy
    Even a man who is pure in heart and says his prayers by night, may become a wolf when the wolfbane blooms and the autumn moon is bright.


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