Skating UP????

[Firefly123]

Ok. Just double checking if I understand this right. (Sorry, I tired to find a thread with this in it but haven't had any luck. I know you've probably explained it before but I just can't find it.....)

Let's say that on a wing and a prayer (OK, wide wing and long prayer ), I am able to pass Intermediate MITF and FS. Then, I understand that I am able to skate Masters Intermediate/Novice. So far, so good.

I heard you can skate "up" one division. Is this right? So, in my case I would be allowed to skate Masters Junior/Senior and make any corresponding changes I want in my program (ie. add 2flip, another spin etc.) to compete at this new level. Right?

So..... which competitions allow this? I would guess you can't do this at sectionals or adult nats....But do all local competitions allow this? Or only some? Is it common? Are there any restrictions? (eg. Can not skate up one level unless you are signed up to skate your own level etc.)

[Skittl1321]

You can't skate up at qualifying competitions or Adult Nationals (even in the non-championship events, I think).

I THINK that the adult sectional competitions also offer non-qualifying competitions (for example Bronze is a non-qualifying level, so I would think at sectionals a bronze skater could go to Silver if they wanted), but it's possible they don't for the qualifying levels, so maybe you couldn't skate up there either. I honestly don't know... so just pretend I didn't answer that part of the question. Because Intermediate/Novice is combined, I'm not sure if you were an Intermediate test level you'd be allowed to skate up to Junior/Senior. You can only skate up 1 level, and that seems to be 2 levels, even though since they are combined it's only 1. I don't know that either.

However- this is the part I meant to answer- I have never seen a local competition that offered adult events past Gold. If you wanted to skate Intermediate/Novice/Junior/Senior, you would skate with the kids. And yeah, you could skate up a level, but honestly, with the kids, I wouldn't want to skate up. (I have seen an adult compete open juvenile before. I think he's passed his Intermediate now.)

Your program should fit the level you are competiting in.

[overedge]

Look at the competition announcement. If skating up is allowed, the competition announcement will say that.

Obviously you are talking about the US system and I'm not in the US....but where I am, there is no firm policy that applies to all competitions, and allowing skaters to skate up is the decision of the competition organizers.

[sk8er1964]

I believe if you are novice you can skate either champ int/nov or champ jr/sr at adult sectionals. I don't think that applies to intermediate, though, and you should check with your section adult chair to be sure.

[Firefly123]

Yikes!!

Thanks for the good points, skittl. To be honest, I never even considered half of those problems/circumstances....

1. If Masters Intermediate/Novice is combined then do I get to skate Junior/Senior with only the Intermediate (not novice test)???????

2. I just assumed all adult levels were offered at every competition. If they only offer to Gold, then where would a skater who passed Intermediate skate? They couldn't/shouldn't skate "down" right? (Or is that because no one at the Masters level signed up? So if I signed up there would only be.......me???)

3. Even if I were to skate against the kids (at Intermediate) is it permitted? (Since I passed the MITF at the lower adult average?) And skating up one level would make me Novice, then, right? (No, don't want to try THAT without at least a clean 2axel and 1or 2 triples.)

4. The program can change to fit the level. Yes, that is what I was thinking. The program can change to fit the level.

[Firefly123]

Look at the competition announcement. If skating up is allowed, the competition announcement will say that.

Obviously you are talking about the US system and I'm not in the US....but where I am, there is no firm policy that applies to all competitions, and allowing skaters to skate up is the decision of the competition organizers

Oh, so it's up to the individual competition, then. (Except qualifying competitions like Sectionals and Nationals.) I wonder if this a common practice (skating up, I mean) or if it is unusual?

[gkelly]

There are a few nonqualifying adult competitions that do hold masters events.

Here are the IJS results for the one in the Washington, DC area: http://wfsc.net/docs/NYI_2010/index.htm

I can't find a copy of the announcement online any more.

If I remember correctly, the wording of the prerequisites allowed skaters who qualified for Gold by test level to compete in Masters Intermediate/Novice but did not have a similar provision for Int/Nov skaters to compete in Junior/Senior.

However, if you did find yourself in that situation and would only be interested in entering if you could enter Junior/Senior, you could write to the referee and request permission to skate up to that event. Worst that could happen would be they'd refuse.

And there might be a point, e.g., next year, where you would have tested only as far as gold but would want to compete in Int/Nov, so that should be possible.

Peach Classic in Georgia is another adult nonqual that offers all levels of adult events. Look for the 2010 announcement on their website probably later this spring: http://www.gafsc.org/peachclassic/

I'm not sure if there are other adult competitions closer to where you are. There used to be one in the Philadelphia area at IceWorks, but it was canceled last year and I don't know if they're planning to revive it.

[Skittl1321]

2. I just assumed all adult levels were offered at every competition. If they only offer to Gold, then where would a skater who passed Intermediate skate? They couldn't/shouldn't skate "down" right? (Or is that because no one at the Masters level signed up? So if I signed up there would only be.......me???)

As far as most clubs are concerned the adult levels are PreBronze, Bronze, Silver and Gold. And even those aren't always offered- sometimes the category is just 'adult'. If you wanted to skate intermediate, you would just skate intermediate. If there are other Master's skaters in your area you might be able to petition a club to add the level to their competition.

No- you definetly aren't allowed to skate down.

3. Even if I were to skate against the kids (at Intermediate) is it permitted? (Since I passed the MITF at the lower adult average?) And skating up one level would make me Novice, then, right? (No, don't want to try THAT without at least a clean 2axel and 1or 2 triples.)

From what I've read online people are saying that if you pass the moves test at any standard you are eligible to take the standard track freeskate test. The freeskate test qualifies you to skate in the level. So if you passed the intermediate freeskate test you are eligible to compete in that level. The majority of non-qual competitions allow you to skate up one level, so you could skate novice if you wanted to. But since most won't offer "adult novice" I doubt you would want to- kids skate much higher than their test level, where adults tend to stick to the elements near their test.

Another option for you would be to go standard track. You could compete Open Juvenile, and it would likely be against older teens (since Juvenile has an age limit Open Juv is for those who have aged out before they get to intermediate. I've seen adults in this level.) No triples are permitted in open juv, but you'd get the full range of doubles and you must have a flying spin.

I really think competiting intermediate would be tough for an adult.

[sk8er1964]

1. If Masters Intermediate/Novice is combined then do I get to skate Junior/Senior with only the Intermediate (not novice test)???????

I don't think so, but the best source for this is individual competition chairs or your section adult chair for sectionals/AN.

2. I just assumed all adult levels were offered at every competition. If they only offer to Gold, then where would a skater who passed Intermediate skate? They couldn't/shouldn't skate "down" right? (Or is that because no one at the Masters level signed up? So if I signed up there would only be.......me???)

Quite often I have skated against masters skaters at local (non-adult only) competitions. I'm usually doing those competitions as a warm up for sectionals, so I don't really care if I get my backside kicked because I'm more interested in getting a judge's critique. Occasionally, though, I have beaten the masters skater.

[Skittl1321]

Quite often I have skated against masters skaters at local (non-adult only) competitions. I'm usually doing those competitions as a warm up for sectionals, so I don't really care if I get my backside kicked because I'm more interested in getting a judge's critique. Occasionally, though, I have beaten the masters skater.

What level are you? Are you saying that master's skaters entered lower levels? A ref shouldn't allow that.

Or was it the case of an "adult" event. (We get that here a lot- everyone will be shocked to know that the skaters tend to place according to their tests. It's also supremely unfair that the high level adults get more TIME for their programs- so even if the Bronze skater could do more elements, they aren't allowed the same amount of time as the Gold skater in the event, and the Bronze skater is restricted from flying spins, while the Gold one is not. Competitions in my area have issues.)

[Firefly123]

If I remember correctly, the wording of the prerequisites allowed skaters who qualified for Gold by test level to compete in Masters Intermediate/Novice but did not have a similar provision for Int/Nov skaters to compete in Junior/Senior.
However, if you did find yourself in that situation and would only be interested in entering if you could enter Junior/Senior, you could write to the referee and request permission to skate up to that event. Worst that could happen would be they'd refuse

Thanks for that advice, gkelly. Yes, I could do that.

And there might be a point, e.g., next year, where you would have tested only as far as gold but would want to compete in Int/Nov, so that should be possible.

Yes, that is what I am thinking. Maybe I can get up through Gold by next year and see how things are there. Then, I can skate up to Masters Intermediate if it is offered. It is only the difference of the 2loop.

Or was it the case of an "adult" event. (We get that here a lot- everyone will be shocked to know that the skaters tend to place according to their tests. It's also supremely unfair that the high level adults get more TIME for their programs- so even if the Bronze skater could do more elements, they aren't allowed the same amount of time as the Gold skater in the event, and the Bronze skater is restricted from flying spins, while the Gold one is not. Competitions in my area have issues.)

I agree with skittl, that is unfair if only because the higher levels are allowed more skating time and more items.

[Debbie S]

What level are you? Are you saying that master's skaters entered lower levels? A ref shouldn't allow that.

I think sk8er1964 is referring to when, due to lack of entries, Gold and Masters skaters are combined into 1 event - so technically, the Gold skater(s) is/are skating up to Masters. In a non-qual comp, such decisions are the discretion of the ref and the LOC. I've seen compulsory moves and spins events with combined levels (like Pre-Bronze/Bronze or Silver/Gold) but not FS, but I don't think there's a rule against it.

At most adult comps (other than Sectionals and AN) "Masters" is offered as an all-encompassing level for anyone who has passed Int FS or higher (and Gold skaters can skate up, since it is non-qual). There usually aren't enough entries to split levels and at that level, it makes more sense to have as big a group as possible. I believe at AN, Masters skaters can skate up 1 level, so in order to skate Champ Junior/Senior, a skater would have to have passed at least Novice FS.

[Skittl1321]

I think sk8er1964 is referring to when, due to lack of entries, Gold and Masters skaters are combined into 1 event - so technically, the Gold skater(s) is/are skating up to Masters.

Okay that makes sense. The way it was written it made me think they were entering lower levels. Combining levels makes a lot more sense (and like I said happens way too frequently, with levels way too far apart, here)

[Firefly123]

At most adult comps (other than Sectionals and AN) "Masters" is offered as an all-encompassing level for anyone who has passed Int FS or higher (and Gold skaters can skate up, since it is non-qual). There usually aren't enough entries to split levels and at that level, it makes more sense to have as big a group as possible. I believe at AN, Masters skaters can skate up 1 level, so in order to skate Champ Junior/Senior, a skater would have to have passed at least Novice FS.

OK. So let's say that a skater who is gold level is skating up at one of these competitions. And let's say said skater is capable of 2flip/lutz for example. Now, the skater is prohibited from using this item in his/her routine as a Gold level skater, but since the skater is skating up a level (to Masters Intermediate which would STILL prohibit 2flip/lutz) and since all the Masters Levels are combined into one.....then, technically, this skater could use 2flip/lutz even though they are, technically, a Gold level skater? Right? Wrong? Help!!

So....for adult nats, a Masters Intermediate/Novice skater would at least need to be Novice to skate up to Junior/Senior.....Yes, that makes sense (unfortunately). For a minute there I thought I found a loophole. Take MITF up to Intermediate and skate Masters Junior/Senior. Should have known it was too good to be true.

[sk8er1964]

I think sk8er1964 is referring to when, due to lack of entries, Gold and Masters skaters are combined into 1 event - so technically, the Gold skater(s) is/are skating up to Masters.

Yes. The announcements usually say gold/masters or that gold and masters can be combined. It doesn't bother me. It would at an all adult competition, but not at the regular ones.

Skittl - I'm at the gold level.

[Debbie S]

since all the Masters Levels are combined into one.....then, technically, this skater could use 2flip/lutz even though they are, technically, a Gold level skater?

Theoretically, yes, but it depends on the rules of the competition. Check the announcement.

[Firefly123]

I will have to be very careful about reading the announcements....What is allowed, isn't allowed etc.

Wow!! This whole skating thing is a lot like law school. No wonder everyone says get a lawyer...(I mean a coach.)

[coskater]

To skate champ jr/sr (Adult sectionals and nationals) you must have your nov fs test, period. That means Nov FM then Nov FS passed.

Locally non qual comps are different, some events combine gold and masters others do not. If you find an event with a masters level event it may be open and you can skate a 3;40 program with no jump limit. As everyone has said read the announcement, that will tell you the rules for that event.

[Stormy]

Here's the thing with adult skating, I don't find skating up very common. With most of us having limited time and money, you want to concentrate your efforts on the level you actually can skate at. I did skate up to Gold at Non-qual Easterns once, but that was because it was basically my Silver program with an extra 30 seconds in the middle. It was easy to switch the two programs, but I was still Silver for the rest of that season.

I understand what you're getting at, and I supposed if you really wanted to skate up at non-quals to Masters Jr/Sr after passing Intermediate MIF and FS you could. But since you couldn't skate at ANs or Sectionals under Masters Jr/Sr, I don't much see the point of it. I'd honestly suggest to you to try to pass the Intermediate MIF/FS first and try your hand at Masters Int/Novice and see how you fare before jumping in to the "big time". A lot of the Jr/Sr ladies are former competitive Senior level skaters and they skate like it. I know this sounds blunt and I don't mean it to be, but just because you have some doubles doesn't mean you'd be competitive in Jr/Sr at all, at the National (and sometimes Sectional) level, at least. For someone who hasn't passed any USFS tests at all, I think you might be putting the cart before the horse trying for Jr/Sr. Int/Novice sounds like a much more realistic goal, for the short term, at least.

[gkelly]

Here's the thing with adult skating, I don't find skating up very common. With most of us having limited time and money, you want to concentrate your efforts on the level you actually can skate at.

Well, it's not common, but there are several reasons it can happen.

*Skater is new to USFS competition, switching over from ISI or another country or roller, and hasn't yet had time to pass all the tests to compete at the appropriate/desired level

*Skater is returning as an adult whose last test was prelim, pre-juv, or juvenile, can still do flying spins, axel, and/or various double jumps and skate with good power but hasn't yet passed and doesn't currently have the skills to immediately pass gold or intermediate or novice MITF to test to the level where his/her favorite elements are allowed in adult competition, where the program length allows including more skills, or where IJS feedback is available

*Skater started as an adult and can and wants to compete with some elements from higher levels (flying spins, axels, doubles) but can't yet pass the necessary MITF tests or maybe can't pass the freestyle test (can't achieve a recognizable sitspin position for the bronze test, can't sustain a camel spin long enough for the silver test, can land one or more doubles but not axel for the gold)

*Skater could just barely pass the next freestyle test but chooses not to test up because then she or he would be stuck at that level and not allowed to drop back to the most appropriate competitive level as skills decline with age, but would like the challenge of competing at the higher level during the brief window when the body can handle longer programs and harder jumps they're likely to "have" only for a brief period of time

*Convenient local club competitions to enter tend to have a good field at the next higher level and no one to compete against at the skater's test level -- given the choice to skate up or get their entry fees refunded and not compete at all, they choose to skate up