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  1. #81
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    Good changes IMO for jumps, the under-rotation and downgraded rule is really what was expected. Finally quads will be really rewarded and the risk will be taken into account.

    And for spins what a change as well, it's going to be very very hard now ! Variety will be the key word.

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artifice View Post
    Finally quads will be really rewarded and the risk will be taken into account.
    People said the same thing after Joubert whined his way into higher values for 3axels and quads after 2008 Worlds. They started to whine again when Joubert lost the 2009 Worlds and Plushenko lost the 2010 Olympics. What makes you think they will be satisfied this time?

    Whiners will always be whiners.

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    So if people argue that more difficult jumps are important and should be rewarded more, they're whiners - but if others express the view that, say, TR and step sequences are important and should have a major effect in determining who wins, that's a legitimate opinion and really, just what's best for figure skating?

    I like most of the proposed changes. I hope they'll encourage more risk-taking but also more creativity and variety in program construction. And I'm thrilled that we'll no longer be subjected to all those catch-foot death spirals.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Rewarding difficulty is one thing. Not rewarding quality is another. I would probably be OK with either one or the other proposal but not both at the same time.

    Now I think Kim is doomed.

    I wish the coming Worlds is won by Stojko-esque and Bonaly-esque skaters. Difficulty my arse.
    Well, I think this rule changes are so evident that it's quite easy to know who are the ISU's favored skaters. You win, Elvis!
    Last edited by eyh201; 05-07-2010 at 12:27 PM.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    People said the same thing after Joubert whined his way into higher values for 3axels and quads after 2008 Worlds. They started to whine again when Joubert lost the 2009 Worlds and Plushenko lost the 2010 Olympics. What makes you think they will be satisfied this time?

    Whiners will always be whiners.
    I didn't say that the changes will satisfy them for sure. I said that this is a good change and that quads will be rewarded in a better way and risk taking will be more valued.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artifice View Post
    I didn't say that the changes will satisfy them for sure. I said that this is a good change and that quads will be rewarded in a better way and risk taking will be more valued.
    Risk-taking?

    I don't think it's no more risk-taking given the under-rotated jumps will get 70% of the base value of the intended jump.

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by eyh201 View Post
    Risk-taking?

    I don't think it's no more risk-taking given the under-rotated jumps will get 70% of the base value of the intended jump.
    It is, since under current rules under-rotation means downgrad wich means quad attemp counted as a triple, therefore worthing less than 70% of a quad !
    70% of a quad value is more than the value of a triple.

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by HisWeirness View Post
    I think 1611 is already decided for the 2010-11 season and beyond. Looking at the ISU Congress Proposals (1609) I found this proposal from the French federation:

    So it looks like the ISU members (federations) do not get to vote on changes to the scale of values under the current rules.

    Right now the rules just let the ISU directly issue the Scale of Values without going through the proposal and decision process involved in changing Technical Rules.
    I am not offensive to all the ideas of this communication but feel so weird that they dicided it without discussing and voting about it while the annual congress are so close. Why are they making haste to decide?

  9. #89

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    70% of 8.5 is 5.95...that is almost the value of a lutz. We are going to see 3A galore in the ladies competition. It might be a total mess at first, but it will make the competitions more exciting.

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by RunnersHigh View Post
    Do you guys remember the poll "When will Yuna Kim's record score(228.56) be broken"?

    Now, no one has chance to close the record..
    I don't think I'm alone in thinking scores were somewhat inflated at the Olympics. I never thought I'd say thay about an ISU event, but they were handing out points like Halloween candy.

    So if Yu-Na's record is safe, so are Daisuke's and Caroline's. I'm not sure about the dance and pair's records.

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by RunnersHigh View Post
    What my friends said over .
    - Soccer fan: Hit the goal post then it's an intermediate goal and 0.7 point.
    - Basketball fan: Hit the rim out of 3 points line then it's an intermediate goal and 2 point. Hitting the back board, 1 point. Out of half line?? Well.. 4 and 3 each.
    - Baseball fan: Fly out near the warning track... It's an intermediate home run and (1 + Runner(s)) * 0.7 point.
    - Football fan: Failed touchdown 5yds away from the opposite end zone.. It's an intermediate touchdown and 4.2 point.
    I love it!

    That's exactly how I feel about the intermediate value for jumps.

    Rotate it or GTFO.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    I haven't seen a step sequence done with natural flow and actual musicality in quite some time.
    Yeah, I was talking to Monika about it and she said that hardly any step sequences are performed to the rhythmic beat ever since they are called. And it used to be the norm in pre-COP era.

    It's just really hard to both perform difficult steps/turns and focus on skating to the music.

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by RunnersHigh View Post
    What my friends said over .
    - Soccer fan: Hit the goal post then it's an intermediate goal and 0.7 point.

    Easy! easy! Just jokes from other sport fans.
    In Soccer is "The God's Hand". Maradonna, Henry... do you remember them?

  13. #93
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    I just don't understand why they took down some of the triple jumps' base points, especially that of 3F. On the other hand, what is the rationale behind raising the base value of 2Lo by 0.3??? Totally nonsensical to me.

    And ISU's dissing of 3-3 combos continues... Even though they raised the base value for 3-3 combos, not much difference will be realized pointwise because of the marked-down GOE scale. Why did they raise the base value in the first place then?
    Last edited by amaro; 05-07-2010 at 04:15 PM.

  14. #94

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    Quote Originally Posted by amaro View Post
    And ISU's dissing of 3-3 combos continues... Even though they raised the base value for 3-3 combos, not much difference will be realized pointwise because of the marked-down GOE scale. Why did they raise the base value in the first place then?
    But how many 3-3 combos actually get positive GOE?

    Especially for the ladies, smaller negative GOE increments, the combination bonus, and the intermediate base score instead of downgrades for moderate underrotations will make it much more attractive to attempt 3-3 combos.

  15. #95

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    Quote Originally Posted by amaro View Post
    I just don't understand why they took down some of the triple jumps' base points, especially that of 3F.
    I imagine it's to make it closer to the value of a 3F, as I would guess that they didn't feel that a 3F was .5 points more difficult than a 3Lo.
    Adelina Sotnikova is the 2014 Olympic champion!

  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by gkelly View Post
    But how many 3-3 combos actually get positive GOE?

    Especially for the ladies, smaller negative GOE increments, the combination bonus, and the intermediate base score instead of downgrades for moderate underrotations will make it much more attractive to attempt 3-3 combos.
    To promote more 3-3 being attempted, implementing the new 70% underrotation rule would be enough. Assigning the same GOE scale to 3-3 combo as that of a stand-alone triple while acknowledging the difficulty of 3-3 by giving an x1.1 weight to it doesn't make any sense to me.

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by oleada View Post
    I imagine it's to make it closer to the value of a 3F, as I would guess that they didn't feel that a 3F was .5 points more difficult than a 3Lo.
    There are far more skaters who have consistent 3Lo but not 3F than the other way around. I don't think now the 0.2 point difference separating the two base values reflects that.

  18. #98

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    I think the 1.1 multiplier is a good idea. It was ridiculous before that a triple-triple was given the same value as both triples being done independently (and there have been lots of complaints about that in the past), when the 3+3 is a more difficult skill.
    Adelina Sotnikova is the 2014 Olympic champion!

  19. #99

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    Quote Originally Posted by amaro View Post
    There are far more skaters who have consistent 3Lo but not 3F than the other way around.
    Is it really? It's been noted that the loop takeoff is a difficult one and wrecks havoc on hips. A lot of female skaters have struggled with the 3Lo including some at the very top - Kwan, Kim, Liashenko, Sarah Meier, Mira Leung, Emily Hughes, Aliona Savchenko (who can't do a 3LoTh). The list goes on.

    In this thread, it's discussed that statistically, many women leave out the 3Lo. But granted, that might just be the sample.
    Adelina Sotnikova is the 2014 Olympic champion!

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by oleada View Post
    Is it really? It's been noted that the loop takeoff is a difficult one and wrecks havoc on hips. A lot of female skaters have struggled with the 3Lo including some at the very top - Kwan, Kim, Liashenko, Sarah Meier, Mira Leung, Emily Hughes, Aliona Savchenko (who can't do a 3LoTh). The list goes on.

    In this thread, it's discussed that statistically, many women leave out the 3Lo. But granted, that might just be the sample.
    I didn't say 3Lo is an easy jump, but definitely easier than 3F with all the crazy edge complications and frequent underrotations. The 0.2 difference does not reflect that.

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