Changes to Base Values, Under-rotations, and Levels - ISU Comm. 1611

[HisWeirness]

Is this communication 1611 already decided or just a proposal which will be discussed at the congress in June?

I think 1611 is already decided for the 2010-11 season and beyond. Looking at the ISU Congress Proposals (1609) I found this proposal from the French federation:

161. FRANCE
ISU Judging System – General
a) For Single Skating and Pair Skating, Ice Dance and Synchronized Skating competitions the Technical Rules include ISU issues a Scale of Value for each and every element that currently compose the events of Figure Skating, i.e. Short Program, Free Skating, Compulsory Dances, Original Dance, Free Dance for Single Skaters, Pairs, Couples and Teams.

Reason: the elements required for the programs, which are currently included in the Technical Rules, and the Scales of Values, which are currently published in ISU Communications, form a single package which should have, as a whole, the status of a Technical Rule with the decision making process attached to it. If this proposal is accepted, Rule 353, paragraph 1 a) should be adapted accordingly.

So it looks like the ISU members (federations) do not get to vote on changes to the scale of values under the current rules.

Right now the rules just let the ISU directly issue the Scale of Values without going through the proposal and decision process involved in changing Technical Rules.

[jane80]

This Change of the MAO, by the MAO, for the MAO(3A, 3LO, etc.)

Congrats to MAO(Japan)

[RunnersHigh]

This is a whole NEW sport!
BTW, players still put on the skates?

[Sparks]

Thank you, Hisweirness! you rock my world!
Seeing it broken down helps people like me who cannot stomach all the new info in one huge dose.

I'd like to think the new "underrotated" guidelines should be the Sparks Rule. I have been saying this forevah!

[RunnersHigh]

I think 1611 is already decided for the 2010-11 season and beyond.

In an article from Sports Navi of Japan, "ISU announced rule changes."

And it read "Good for Mao and Dai."

[RunnersHigh]

This Change of the MAO, by the MAO, for the MAO(3A, 3LO, etc.)

Congrats to MAO(Japan)

Don't forget Miki!!!!
Now, it's Miki's era to come. Her 4S.

[tarotx]

This helps Mao depending on what they do with her jumps. Nearly everyone could be called under rotated.

[miki88]

This rule could benefit a lot of skaters. Strict and inconsistent UR calls are not good for anyone, including Yuna. Lol. I still remember how so many people got mad at the tech panel "unfairly" downgrading her 3-3 in the fall.

[LilJen]

Hm. I don't know if I like the smaller GOE values. I would MUCH rather see elements done high quality than eked out. Now those that are done very, very well won't be rewarded as nicely. Although I guess that balances out the dropping of a step sequence (if indeed all these changes are in fact happening).

[Polymer Bob]

This Change of the MAO, by the MAO, for the MAO(3A, 3LO, etc.)

Congrats to MAO(Japan)

Not quite. That would be a rule that says Mao can so a triple axel instead of a double.

[bek]

Hm. I don't know if I like the smaller GOE values. I would MUCH rather see elements done high quality than eked out. Now those that are done very, very well won't be rewarded as nicely. Although I guess that balances out the dropping of a step sequence (if indeed all these changes are in fact happening).

But people can still get GOE points just not as much as before. And I think its a good thing because it was just way to easy for the judges to pad their favorites scores. Not to mention the double axel GOE really needed to be lowered. Everyone at that level should be able to do a high quality double axel. And it was ridiculous that a high quality double axel with +2 would be getting half of its value back, whereas a high quality triple axel with +2 would be getting no where near half its value back.

I think its a really good thing that they are starting to recognize that a high quality quad or triple axel should be worth more GOE points than an easier triple/double axel.

My only issue is I don't like the idea of falls and stuff being penalized less to be quite frank. IF they are going to have those rules ,they need to start arguing that messy programs need to be punished more in PCS.

Also while I support the idea of Mao being allowed to do her triple axel in the short. However, I will say that I really don't think 1.1 bonus is enough of a reward for combinations. And I also think that 3/3s should be able to get the same kind of GOE that a triple axel or a quad can get-at least for women.

Plus, a lot of women are struggling with the 3lutz, so if they are going to raise the triple axel-again maybe the 3lutz should be raised a bit more.

[FSUSF]

Congrats to the Japanese skater!

[RunnersHigh]

This rule could benefit a lot of skaters. Strict and inconsistent UR calls are not good for anyone, including Yuna. Lol. I still remember how so many people got mad at the tech panel "unfairly" downgrading her 3-3 in the fall.

Hmm.. It may be benefit for a lot of skaters but, I think the most beneficiary of the rule is Mao, 5-time-3A-DGed in ISU International competitions during 2009-2010.

[miki88]

Hmm.. It may be benefit for a lot of skaters but, I think the most beneficiary of the rule is Mao, 5-time-3A-DGed in ISU International competitions during 2009-2010.

Actually, if Mao's 3A gets the underrotation, she will be rewarded GOE according to the jump that it was intended. This means she will be hit with greater negative GOE than she is getting now, because now the GOE for a downgraded 3A goes by a 2A standard. The end result will give her little more than a point than she is getting now. She will be getting some benefit but not so much more than now. Also, don't you think a rule that benefits many even if you think it benefits one the most is a good one? Majority rules in most cases.

[bek]

Hmm.. It may be benefit for a lot of skaters but, I think the most beneficiary of the rule is Mao, 5-time-3A-DGed in ISU International competitions during 2009-2010.

I actually think a lot of these rules are quite fair. The triple axel should be worth more and if a lady can take advantage of having a 3/3 in the short, another lady should be able to take advantage of having a 3axel. (only fair)

However, I do think that a lady with a 3lutz/3toe should be able to get high level GOE on that theoritically. That's an incredibly difficult combination for women and I'd like to see 3/3s treated a bit higher on GOE than just regular triples.

However, I think a lot of these rules aren't really about Mao. I think they were concerned about the downgrades and it was clear the callers at the Olympics was going easy on most besides Flatt. I also think it was clear the double axel thing was getting very much abused. Even with the men you had someone like Lambiel who could theoratically make up a lot of points on GOE doing a double axel in the short, instead of a triple axel.

A lot of these rules changes truly needed to happen.

[RunnersHigh]

Do you guys remember the poll "When will Yuna Kim's record score(228.56) be broken"?

Now, no one has chance to close the record..

[Aussie Willy]

I love it. I find out about these things sooner on FSU than from my own skating organisations.

I hope they have updated the IJS software.

ETA - no they have not updated the software yet.

[RunnersHigh]

Actually, if Mao's 3A gets the underrotation, she will be rewarded GOE according to the jump that it was intended. This means she will be hit with greater negative GOE than she is getting now, because now the GOE for a downgraded 3A goes by a 2A standard. The end result will give her little more than a point than she is getting now. She will be getting some benefit but not so much more than now. Also, don't you think a rule that benefits many even if you think it benefits one the most is a good one? Majority rules in most cases.

I actually think a lot of these rules are quite fair. The triple axel should be worth more and if a lady can take advantage of having a 3/3 in the short, another lady should be able to take advantage of having a 3axel. (only fair)

However, I do think that maybe the ISU could do something about making the rules seem-to favored to Mao. For example, I really think Yu-na's 3lutz/3toe should be able to continue getting the same type of GOE as it was always getting. Very few women are able to do 3/3s like that. Maybe though they figure that the combination bonus evens things out but...

Don't get me wrong.
I don't have any objection to the rule changes. (And I don't give any shit on it.) I just said my opinion on whom the most beneficiary is, IMO.

And one more! Rule change is one thing and fair or unfair is another in Figure Skating. Isn't it?

[Spazactaz]

Wow, it's going to be harder to get level 4 for all spins now. COE only counted once, as well as DV?? In addition to the bwd entry still.

[sequinsgalore]

Yay! They deleted "difficult variation of lady's position" as a feature for death spirals, and clarified that both man and lady must be in low position for level features! No more ugly catch-foot spirals.

Again, does anyone know what a Pivot Figure is? The base value is lower than a level1 death spiral, so it must be easy, right?

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