View Poll Results: Who medals in 1996 womens gymnatics AA if all hit- pick 3 options

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  • Podkopayeva

    39 90.70%
  • Gogean

    1 2.33%
  • Milosovici

    1 2.33%
  • Amanar

    8 18.60%
  • Huilan

    32 74.42%
  • Kochetkova

    5 11.63%
  • Galieva

    1 2.33%
  • Miller

    12 27.91%
  • Dawes

    21 48.84%
  • Khorkina

    9 20.93%
  • A BelaRussian Boginskaya or Piskun

    0 0%
  • an absent person from AA finals (Marinescu, Grosheva, Strug, Phelps, Yuanyuan)

    0 0%
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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    I don't know if LiliaPod was clearly the best. When it came to Beam, UB, and VT, I thought Mo was clearly better. Don't get me wrong, though, I am extremely happy she was the 1996 Olympic AA champ because LiliaPod is probably the best Olympic AAer we had until Nastia Liukin graced the top of the podium.
    My opinion is that Lilia was clearly the best because she was able to score very high at every event, was unbeatable at FX, and was very solid.
    I know the thread is about everyone being perfect, but I can't imagine Mo Huilan without any mistake, though she is one of my favorite gymnast ! lol

  2. #42
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    I give an edge to Mo Huilan. There was a lightness and ease to her gymnastics that Podkopayeva didn't quite have, especially on UB & BB (especially on BB, it was like a walk in the park for her and she did everything with supreme amplitude). I wasn't the biggest fan of Podkopayeva but I do admire her beautiful form and power. It's just that I found that there was a slightly 'heavy' quality to her gymnastics and her FX choreography seem to consist of a lot of poses (whether it be faux-Arabian or of a ballerina). Many called her style balletic but IMO, she seemed to be imitating a ballerina rather than truly embodying the style. Here are my scores if everyone hits cold (which would never happen though, especially with Huilan who always faltered under pressure). Also, if Dina Kochetkova went with her pike Barani rather than the Yurchenko 1.5, she could've walked away with the gold (she was my other favourite for the gold medal). She had such a smooth and velvety quality to her gymnastics and I thought her FX choreography was superiour to that of Podkopayeva (just in terms of basic construction). But I'm also a little puzzled as to why she didn't throw her full difficult during the AA on the other events but my scores below are based on what she was capable of doing (which i believe is the point of this thread). As for the Americans, I wasn't impressed with Dawes' form and I didn't like Miller's lack of amplitude on both UB and FX (I also couldn't stand her prissy dancing). On UB, her release moves and dismount were much too low for my liking but then again, I've always had that problem with her. As for Galieva, I'm not sure as to how to score her on FX and she had amazing posture and flexibility and power but she was really struggling with her double layout (I don't ever recall her having problems with it before). However, Podkopayeva was definitely the deserving champion in the long run because she could hit when it counted and that's what champions do.

    Mo Huilan
    V - 9.900 UB - 9.850 BB - 9.875 FX - 9.825 Total - 39.450

    Dina Kochetkova
    V - 9.750 UB - 9.850 BB - 9.850 FX - 9.900 Total - 39.350

    Roza Galieva
    V - 9.800 UB - 9.750 BB - 9.850 FX - 9.850 Total - 39.250

    Svetlana Khorkina
    V - 9.800 UB - 9.850 BB - 9.800 FX - 9.800 Total - 39.250

    Lilia Podkopayeva
    V - 9.825 UB - 9.775 BB - 9.800 FX - 9.850 Total - 39.250

    Dominique Moceanu
    V - 9.800 UB - 9.825 BB - 9.825 FX - 9.750 Total - 39.200

    Dominique Dawes
    V - 9.775 UB - 9.800 BB - 9.775 FX - 9.825 Total - 39.175

    Simona Amanar
    V - 9.850 UB - 9.750 BB - 9.700 FX - 9.850 Total - 39.150

    Shannon Miller
    V - 9.725 UB - 9.750 BB - 9.850 FX - 9.800 Total - 39.125

    Lavinia Milosovici
    V - 9.750 UB - 9.750 BB - 9.750 FX - 9.825 Total - 39.075

    Gina Gogean
    V - 9.800 UB - 9.650 BB - 9.750 FX - 9.850 Total - 39.050

  3. #43

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    Yeah that was my problem with LiliaPod's FX choreography as well. It was just a bunch of poses with no real flow or cohesion. Her compulsory FX on the other hand showed off an excellent dancer so I have no idea why her optional FX choreography was so bad.
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  4. #44
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    Oh giving the scores you would give yourself rather than what the judges would give with them all hitting cold is fun. Here are the scores I would have given if everyone had hit cold with their top difficulty:

    Podkopayeva- Vault 9.850, Bars 9.700, Beam 9.85, Floor 9.900
    Amanar- Vault 9.900, Bars 9.800, Beam 9.70, Floor 9.900
    Miller- Vault 9.700, Bars 9.800, Beam 9.850, Floor 9.600
    Milosovici- Vault 9.600, Bars 9.600, Beam 9.650, Floor 9.700
    Gogean- Vault 9.850, Bars 9.75, Beam 9.75, Floor 9.850
    Moceanu- Vault 9.65, Bars 9.60, Beam 9.70, Floor 9.60
    Huilan- Vault 9.875, Bars 9.95, Beam 9.95, Floor 9.75
    Khorkina- Vault 9.75, Bars 9.90, Beam 9.80, Floor 9.55
    Galieva- Vault 9.825, Bars 9.775, Beam 9.85, Floor 9.70
    Kochetkova- Vault 9.725, Bars 9.85, Beam 9.90, Floor 9.875
    Dawes- Vault 9.70, Bars 9.80, Beam 9.75, Floor 9.80

    My final AA results with all doing their best:

    Gold- Huilan 39.525
    Silver- Kochetkova 39.400
    Bronze tie- Podkopayeva 39.300
    Bronze tie- Amanar 39.300
    Gogean- 39.200
    Galieva- 39.150
    Dawes- 39.050
    Khorkina- 39.00
    Miller- 38.950
    Milosovici- 38.550
    Moceanu- 38.550

    Huilan is the queen IMO. If she had hit cold she should have won the AA by a landslide. Her bars and double yurchenkos were grossly underscored all Games long too. How her stunning bars set with tiny steps on landing were only getting 9.8 is beyond me. Of course like often she still did herself in in the end largely. Such a shame as she was by far the most overall talented gymnast of the time IMO.

    Podkopayeva was always overscored on bars. She had so many form breaks on that event and few spectacular moves. I actually found her vault and beam underscored often though. Of course she unfortunately never truly fully hit a beam set in Atlanta, lots of small breaks and little errors in all her routines there.

    Miller was a bit underscored on bars in Atlanta I thought. I actually liked her bars set in Atlanta. I never liked her floor much and she looked even worse by 96 with all the super power tumblers and more interesting floor choreography. Other than beam the field had passed her by for the most part by 96 IMO, she was nowhere near the threat she had been from 92-94 anymore. Strangely a year or two earlier I had been thinking Milo was standing the test of time better than Shannon, but by Atlanta Shannon' gymnastics looked alot better than Milo overall.

    I love Amanar's vaulting and tumbling, and her tumbling in 96 was so sensationally not only powerful but exquisite in form and execution it nearly made me ignore her much weaker dance, nearly but not quite totally. Her bars in Atlanta was actually quite good unbelievably enough.

    I actually thought Gogean's form on bars was excellent even if her routine was a basic one with no amplitude. I would have scored her a bit higher there then she was at the Games. Her beam was overscored thoughout the Games. I thought her yurchenko 1 1/2 was excellent and underscored throughout the Games.

    Milosovici was SO bad by 96. I actually liked her from 91-94, but she looked like a generic has been by Atlanta. Her scores were still low for a top gymnast even when she hit but she wouldnt have even been a top gymnast anymore by then if I were a judge. I would say she wouldnt have even made the AA except Belu would have pulled Marinescu out for any of his 3 darlings no matter what, so she would have been in the AA regardless I guess. The only thing I liked about her gymnastics by 96 was her tumbling on floor and beam.

    Young Moceanu was one of the most overscored gymnasts in history IMO. Her form was horrible and she got hardly any deductions for it. That is why I regret leaving her out of this poll by accident, like it or not she was definitely a big threat for an AA medal if she hit all her events due to her blatant overscoring at the time. Probably more than Miller and as much as Dawes.

    Kochetkova was so underrated and underscored on nearly every event. IMO she was by far the best Russian but I wouldnt be surprised if they were campaigning for Galieva and Khorkina over her. She messed up her vaults in the AA and didnt hit her best sets in event finals so it might not have mattered much though, still was robbed of a beam medal in event finals though IMO even with her mistakes.

    I liked Galieva's gymnastics more in 92 than 96 but she seemed more a contender in 96 than 92. It is amazing what experience and more favortism from the powerful head coach will do for you. Unfortunately her bad karma in the Olympics continued and she was not able to give her best to capatilize and win any medals. I liked her beam and vault despite the herky jerky dance she had on beam by Atlanta.

    Dawes was a somewhat overscored and overrated gymnast with flawed form I felt. Still better than Moceanu IMO.

    Khorkina's vault was undermarked in Atlanta, but her tumbling on floor was so weak this year.

    I would like to do some of my scores for the gymnasts who werent in the AA if they hit their best routines too:

    Strug- Vault 9.65, Bars 9.55, Beam 9.30, Floor 9.55
    Marinescu- Vault 9.55, Bars 9.75, Beam 9.90, Floor 9.75
    Grosheva- Vault 9.80, Bars 9.80, Beam 9.75, Floor 9.80
    Phelps- Vault 9.75, Bars 9.825, Beam 9.825, Floor 9.70
    Borden- Vault 9.55, Bars 9.70, Beam 9.850, Floor 9.80

    I feel bad in a way dumping on America's gutsy heroine of the Games, but Strug's scores throughout the team event in Atlanta made me laugh. She has the worst form from a noteable gymnast I have ever seen, and while her floor tumbling was powerful her dance and landings were like a huge elephant out on the mat. I actually hated her gymnastics much more by 96 than I had back in 92, and I didnt even like her back in 92. I came up with her beam score thinking of Mo Hulian or Shannon Miller fell on beam should Kerri and her pitiful excuse of a beam set outscore them and my answer was no.

    I loved Marinescu on beam and liked her on every event except vault. I wish she had been in the AA instead of the generic past her prime Milo. I wish she had hit her best set in beam finals too, I am sure the judges would have given her a medal atleast if Gogean got one.

    I actually like Grosheva's gymnastics alot. Too bad she was inconsistent. She was a better AA gymnast than Khorkina this year and I wish she had been in the AA instead of her.

    Phelps was underrated IMO. Too bad in Atlanta all her beam routines were wobbly and off. However she was one of the only ones to do the Phelps vault properly with perfect form and execution and got no credit for it. She didnt have the power on vault but her execution of the Phelps outside of her lack of amplitude was much better than the Romanians. Her bars was terrific. Her form on every event was excellent and underappreciated.

    Borden had wonderful routines on beam and floor in the team finals which were both undermarked IMO.

  5. #45

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    I would still have gone a bit higher on floor for Strug because of her power but not much higher than say 9.700 Her beam set was just AWFUL. Those layouts! Where is the vomit emoticon when we need it!? The sad thing is, I don't think Mocheanu had much better form on beam on her layouts.
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  6. #46
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    I remember being stunned that Kerri went last for the U.S on compulsory floor and event more stunned when the judges went along with that and gave her the highest U.S score by half a tenth (Miller was the 2nd highest U.S score). The compulsory floor routine was more of a dancy and balletic routine and yet Kerri thudding around the floor and doing those ungraceful leg lifts and pivots somehow getting the 2nd highest compulsory floor score of anyone (behind Lilia). Compulsory vault I could see her as anchor and getting the highest U.S score, but compulsory floor!? Then in optional floor it was pretty funny when Moceanu and Dawes were put in the middle of the lineup and still got 9.837 for Moceanu and 9.850 for Dawes, and Strug went last up and could only get a 9.837. Dawes should have been the anchor in optional floor for sure, and if she had I bet her score would have been alot higher than Strug's. Miller should have been the anchor for compulsory floor. She didnt have the tumbling power or personality to be a great optional floor worker by 96 standards but the compulsory floor routine was perfect for her.

    I would have actually left her off beam altogether if I were the U.S coach. Especialy compulsory beam.

  7. #47

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    I think they only left Kerri on optional beam because Chow had so much difficulty and therefore a much higher chance of falling. Kerri was atrocious but would stay on beam. I haven't ever seen Chow's compulsory beam, or if I have I don't recall, but she probably wasn't so good. The poor thing has no presentation whatsoever and she probably looked completely awkward up there. I'm going to have to see if I can find a video anywhere. I miss compulsories.

    I came across this video of Shannon's beam gold medal routine. I have never seen it from this angle, and no commentary.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3UO-...eature=related
    Last edited by BigB08822; 05-15-2010 at 02:59 AM.
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  8. #48
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    Yeah back in 96 Chow's form outside of bars was almost as bad as Strug's, and her actual presentation was even worse (I was not surprised at all she was left off floor where she showed zero personality or flair then even when she actually tried to). Still I much prefered watching her on beam than Strug since she actually threw exciting things rather than Strug who didnt even have any great or interesting skills in her routine ugly than her ghastly performed 4 tumbling series. I agree she was probably left off beam since she was so inconsistent though, and you couldnt afford putting someone who was a decent risk to fall. 96 Nationals AA was about the only time I saw Strug actual fall on beam.

    Chow's compulsory beam at the Trials was better than anything I have seen from Strug actually but Chow herself wasnt any masters of compulsories and much better at optionals.

    It is interesting to compare Strug's scores (in the context of the very high scoring at those Worlds) at the 95 Worlds when coached by relative unknowns the Forresters while competing on foreign turf to what she was getting on U.S soil coached again by Bela Karolyi. I am almost relieved she couldnt compete in the AA as with the scores she was getting and all the mistakes that night there is a decent chance she would have medaled.

  9. #49

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    I think it was also wise to leave Amy Chow off of the FX since her optional FX music was to "Dixie". That may have caused some controversy though the idea of seeing a teenaged Asian girl from California with no real dance/performance talent perform a routine set to a song about the good ol' days of the South before the Civil War at one of the most watched Olympics ever would've been a funny sight to see.
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  10. #50
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    Sigh. All this talk reminds how sad I was the night of AA (I was 8 years old but already very emotionally attached lol) The mistakes by Dawes and Huilan LITERALLY made me cry.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loves_Shizuka View Post
    Sigh. All this talk reminds how sad I was the night of AA (I was 8 years old but already very emotionally attached lol) The mistakes by Dawes and Huilan LITERALLY made me cry.
    LOL, I watched it live on TV and was very, very happy with the results !
    This competition was so interesting with Shannon Miller in 1st after two events. Kochetkova and Mo also in the top 3. So much pressure and the final results were not at all the same !
    Sad for Khorkina, never in contention.

  12. #52

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    You actually like Simona Amanar, a dead-eyed Gina Gogean, and a past-her-prime-can't-afford-a-bra Lilo Milosoveci making the podium?

    Not to be snarky, but yikes.
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  13. #53
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    I wouldnt have minded Amanar. She was young, fresh, and exciting her own way back then. Her double yurchenko was the best vault I had ever seen by a women at that point. Her floor tumbling was amazing, the best in the World probably. Not only powerful but impeccable form and technique. Her bars was pretty good then actually, the best of the Romanians. Even with her crummy dance on floor and beam I liked her gymnastics. It was a shame she didnt perform her best that night she got a silly deduction for not doing a double turn on floor. Actually my prefered AA podium probably would have been some combination of Mo, Lilia, Dawes, Kochetkova, or Amanar.

    Gogean less excited about. Milo I definitely didnt want on the AA podium at those Olympics. She was way past her prime.

  14. #54

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    Yeah, I wouldn't have minded Amanar that much either. I just keep remembering how boring she was in 2000, but that has nothing to do with the way she was in 1996.
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  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    Not to be snarky, but yikes.
    Yikes indeed. Pod was the queen of Atlanta. I would have loved Mo for silver and Dawes or Dina for bronze.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    Yeah, I wouldn't have minded Amanar that much either. I just keep remembering how boring she was in 2000, but that has nothing to do with the way she was in 1996.
    I find all the Romanians got worse as the years went on. I actually liked Milo and Gogean back in 92, even 93 and 94 somewhat. By 96 I couldnt stand them. Amanar by 99 and 2000 was just a fridge break for me. Her form was much worse, her tumbling didnt stand out as much anymore, and her bars was a horrid mess by then, and she didnt have any intangible appeal anymore that she had a bit of when younger. Bontas was ok in the late 80s when she first emerged, but by 92 I was glad to see her surprisingly overthrown as the top Romanian by Milo during the competition. I suspect alot of it is coaching, but then again if you dont get coached by Bela full time you get blacklisted by him like Marinescu was.

  17. #57

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    Shame because the Romanians were truly one of the bests in all the areas (dance, form, difficulty, creativity, etc.) of gymnastics prior the take over by Belu and Bitang.
    "Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility." - Ambrose Bierce

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    Yeah, I wouldn't have minded Amanar that much either. I just keep remembering how boring she was in 2000, but that has nothing to do with the way she was in 1996.
    I really liked her in 96. By the time 2000 rolled around, she was everything detestable about Romanian gymnastics.

  19. #59
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    One amazing thing to realize about Romanian gymnasts is the only two to win a World AA title are Maria Olaru and that flash in the pan Aurelia Dobre. That is just amazing. Commaneci couldnt do it, Eberle couldnt, Szabo couldnt, Daniela Silivas couldnt, Bontas couldnt, Milosovici couldnt, Gogean couldnt, Amanar couldnt, Raducan couldnt, Ponar couldnt. Yet Olaru actually did. Hard to fathom.

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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    One amazing thing to realize about Romanian gymnasts is the only two to win a World AA title are Maria Olaru and that flash in the pan Aurelia Dobre. That is just amazing. Commaneci couldnt do it, Eberle couldnt, Szabo couldnt, Daniela Silivas couldnt, Bontas couldnt, Milosovici couldnt, Gogean couldnt, Amanar couldnt, Raducan couldnt, Ponar couldnt. Yet Olaru actually did. Hard to fathom.
    In 76 years, the World AA title has only been awarded 28 times. Starting in 1934, Worlds was every 4 years, then in 1979 it went to every other year (odds). For example, though Comaneci medaled at two Olympics, only two World AA events (78, 79) were competed during her career. It gets really confusing in 96 because Podkopayeva was the reigning - 1995 - AA champ but Kotchetkova was the reigning - 1996 - beam champ. I used to wonder if the Ukrainian mafia had the 96 AA champ disappeared

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_A...ual_all-around

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