Just for Fun

[Firefly123]

Something kind of cool. Thought you might like it. Check out the pairs spins and the synchro footage.
Disclaimer: It is "roller propaganda"...but still kind of cool....

http://<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ufSjT4Tg4L8&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ufSjT4Tg4L8&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

The creator (a roller skater, obviously) is wrong. Ice skaters can do traveling camels and inverted camels. (They are just a little different from the roller ones.) Can't do heel camels on ice (back wheels). Can't do slides/lunges on roller. Can't do upright layback spins very well on roller (have seen a few, usually done on toestops which aren't supposed to count since they are not on edges.)

[kayskate]

http://www.youtube.com/v/ufSjT4Tg4L8...E%3C/object%3E

I'm going to throw this in. It's roller skating fours. Kind of like pairs but w four ppl. I think this used to be an ice discipline also. Our shared gold medalists also did something similar as an exhibition.

Kay
www.skatejournal.com

[Firefly123]

Kayskates,
Hi!! Yes, you used to be a rollerskater, too. I love to bring some of the "roller stuff" onto ice. It usually makes other ice skaters shake their heads and stare ....Sometimes in a good way.....Sometimes in a bad way...... As an ex-roller skater, do you do this too?

Currently trying: L traveling camel into LBI camel-sit-corkscrew camel (back up into LBI). Unfortunately, I can not seem to keep up the speed/balance needed to kick out the leg and make a good looking corkscrew. It just doesn't seem to work the same way on ice .....But I can manage (sometimes) to get back up into a decent camel by "curling" it (catch camel without the catch). I was messing around with this and saw upper level coach staring at it. (I think in a good way.) It is a "different" combination that hasn't been seen on ice in a long time and might make an upper level skater stand out to the judges if they included it in a spin combo. And with all the "cookie cutter" routines, I think this might be what the coaches are looking for...something "different" that will make their skater stand out from the pack......A "signature move" so to speak.

We have a lot of cool stuff like that on roller. If I ever do manage to test up and compete I will try to use some of it in my programs....For better or for worse. ...It might not get a lot of points, but at least it will be.....interesting...

[kayskate]

I do a version of the inverted back camel on ice skates. It is my sig move. Ppl love it. I used to do traveling camel too. I like to teach my students multi-jump combos. These are good exercises to keep momentum and to concentrate on 1 jump at a time.

Kay
www.skatejournal.com

[Firefly123]

Kay,

Inverted on ice??? Wow!! Good for You!!!!!! It's a lot harder to do on ice. (Yes, of course, I tried. Ouch!!! )

For the inverted: Ice skaters seem to keep the pressure on the ball and open up the free hip/upperbody vs. the way we did it (the sort of 3 turn "shift" of weight back on the skate). Is this right? I have tried to do some inverteds "ice style" but my hips are just so closed. Sigh.

I have a pretty decent layover camel. But no inverted (on ice.)

Besides the travels and long combos I also like the corkscrew camel I mentioned above and the ROB sit (or upright) jump into LIB sit. Ice skaters do this, but not as often. (Yaugudin's Olympic LP comes to mind. Awesome!! ) ...But I think elite roller seems to use it more.....

Interesting that I never saw a forward flying sit (BI) on roller (the tuck one), but I did see a pretty decent one done on inlines (where they are "allowed" to spin on the toestop). Now, I have seen (and can do) deathdrops, flying camels and butterflys on roller/inlines but for some reason no flying sits....um....

Was wondering....Have you ever known any skater to do the forward flying sit (IB) decently on roller quad?

Really glad to meet an ex-roller. Was going to ask you many, many things...but you've probably answered them all in your online journal. So it is probably a better idea to read that and THEN bother you with a bunch of questions/observations. May I pm you from time to time?

[kayskate]

Not sure what you mean by corkscrew camel. layover forward camel? These are not common on ice and hard to do. I can do one when I am in shape.
I do the invert like an ice skater. Never did one on wheels.
I have seen some forward sit-jump-back sit on ice, though they are not common. have never seen a roller flying sit, nor have I tried one on wheels myself. I never had a good one on ice anyway.

You are certainly welcome to PM me. Best to email through my email addy on my web site.

Happy skating.
Kay
www.skatejournal.com

[kayskate]

Quad roller flying sit:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcOWHz-gmdU&NR=1

Something else interesting. Inside edge double axel. I have never seen this on ice. Inside single axels can be added to footwork, but I have never seen a double.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4r6hF...eature=related

Kay
www.skatejournal.com

[Firefly123]

Wow!! Kay thanks for posting that roller flying sit. I have never, ever seen one. I honestly thought it couldn't be done.

Corkscrew is when they do a left sit and bring it back up into the IB camel (they usually pull the freeleg up around the back of the skating leg and shoot it out at the end). Back when I was a teen, the senior lady at our rink (Dee) had a georgous one!! She spun so fast it actually had enough speed to go 6-7 revs after it got back up into the camel!!! It was her best spin. I was so jealous!! Still jealous. But you hardly ever see it now on roller because the broken ankle is worth so much more. So everyone does that instead. It kills so much speed that it is hard to do both the broken ankle and the corkscrew so everyone picks the broken ankle instead.

Here is Natalie Motley doing one on inlines (at 1:50.)
http://<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/2udW9z2UxmY&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/2udW9z2UxmY&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

It's really pretty good for inlines (much harder to keep spin going than on roller).....But it is nothing like Dee's was.

Here is me trying to do something like it on ice (at 1:55): http://<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/701ezpZUy4Y&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/701ezpZUy4Y&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

Notice that I have to curl the camel in order to keep the balance/rotation going on ice. It's definitely not as dramatic as shooting the leg back out (like Dee did)....But it works this way on ice. Maybe if I ever get it strong enough I can start trying to shot the leg out straight.....But for now I think I'll keep the curl (or possibly a catch camel.) I think it is this part of the combo (LIB sit into LIB camel) that is what the coach was watching. It's difficult and.....different. It might make a skater stand out to the judges.

I do a (single) inside axel on ice....I usually call it a "bockel." I also do a "coolege" (one foot axel). Originally learned both on roller.
But I can't do the 2bockel. Wow!!

[kayskate]

tried the corkscrew today. Not easy. I lose momentum w/ the kick out into the camel position. Will keep trying.

Kay

[Firefly123]

I finally found it!!! 2 inside axel on ice. (at 3:39)

http://<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/XNP6VaJZzE0&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/XNP6VaJZzE0&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>


I knew I'd seen it somewhere.

Yes, that corkscrew camel is much harder on ice. Like I said I am adapting it by doing a "curl" position and/or a catch in order to help keep balance and speed. As soon as I can get back on the ice, I want to try an inverted tuck and keep the hold up into the camel. (That is, if my lower back can take it.) Maybe that will work......or at least look really cool. What do you think? I don't think I have ever seen this combination on ice.....at least not yet.

[kayskate]

Loved that vid of Julie Lynn Holmes! Her inside 2 axel is amazing. I also loved the backward split jump at ~4:15. i want to try this.

For the invert, are you going to do a back camel into an invert? If so, start w a basic layover bcamel and then open the hip and bend the free leg. her's a vid of Yu Na Kim doing one. this is how I do my invert on ice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9iy4Sr7TRo

Kay

[Firefly123]

Oooooops, sorry. All these names are so close. Inverted camel, inverted tuck sit...etc.

What I mean is much simpler..... Basic LBI sit with inveted tuck position (grabbing the blade from behind) and then holding that blade all the way back up into the LBI camel in order to preform the catch camel. This should help with balance and speed since the whole spin is keep close to the axis.

Inverted tuck sits at .24 and .41.

http://<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/_szKKfgFjTM&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/_szKKfgFjTM&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

My idea is to continue holding the blade behind you while trying to get back up into the camel. It should make it easier since your body is kept closer to the axis. (Unfortunately, it kind of kills the cool corkscrew effect that you get on roller.....But it would still be a unique and very cool spin combo.)

I also loved the backward split jump at ~4:15. i want to try this

Oh! Great catch!! I didn't even notice that. I want one too!!!!

For the invert, are you going to do a back camel into an invert? If so, start w a basic layover bcamel and then open the hip and bend the free leg. her's a vid of Yu Na Kim doing one. this is how I do my invert on ice.

Yup, that is the difference between ice and roller inverted camels. On roller we kind of do a 3 turn within the spin and "flip" the whole thing over while transfering the weight back to the middle/outside edge of the skate.
Here is a quick example (sorry about the title): http://<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/XJ0afrnJeao&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/XJ0afrnJeao&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

Look closely at her spinning foot. You can see the 3 turn within the spin. Of course, this doesn't work on ice. You have to keep the pressure constant on the sweet spot and use the body itself (open up the hip/upperbody). I wish I could do this, but with my closed hips.......

[kayskate]

Look closely at her spinning foot. You can see the 3 turn within the spin. Of course, this doesn't work on ice. You have to keep the pressure constant on the sweet spot and use the body itself (open up the hip/upperbody). I wish I could do this, but with my closed hips.......

Yup, I am familiar w the roller inverts. I have never done one on wheels or ice. As for the 3turn w/in the spin, the Lussi camel technique of the FO camel requires the skater to enter the basic forward camel then do a BI3 to an FO edge and continue the spin. Similarly for the FI back camel on ice.

FO camel : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKExX2pGEgc
FI camel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SE5TIGT1Zco&feature=fvsr
(~2:25)

Those vids you posted make the tuck sits more clear. It would look really nice to rise to a catch camel from this position. I think I will try it too.

Kay

[Firefly123]

Kay,
Yes, definitely try it and let me know what you think. My broken toes are not healing as fast as I had hoped. I don't know when I can make it back onto the ice. ........ And I really want to try that back split jump too. Sigh.

And you are right that is the secret behind the edge changes in the camels. Since they have eliminated this feature for the uprights (which I can do), I will have to start working on these. (If I ever get back onto the ice, that is. Sigh.)

[kayskate]

I stumbled upon this vid of Carrie Rugh doing a sit-camel combo on ice. Not quite a corkscrew, but interesting. It's actually camel-sit-camel all on one foot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THPVhwnX-q4&NR=1
~2:30

Kay
www.skatejournal.com

[Firefly123]

Oh good find Kay!!!
Yes, I see it at 2:40. The challenge is really to keep up the speed. I think the only way to do this is to keep it close to the axis. Probably the best way would be to pull up the inverted tuck sit up into the catch camel without letting go of the skate (if you are flexible enough.) I am not very flexible so this would really be pushing it for me, but when my foot heels I am going to try. At the very least, keep the free leg close (and "curled") around the spinning leg up until you get back into the camel position and then keep it "curled" (but not caught with the hand on the blade) while in the camel (like I did on the video). Of course, if you are flexible enough it would be much, much better and look a ton cooler to hold that blade all the way up from the inverted tuck.

I also like that sit spin with the jump sit that she does. I think I read in the new update that this is definitely now a feature (clear jump within a sit spin.) Think I may try to use it now that RIF sit is gone and you cannot repeat your features.

[kayskate]

When I learned camel-sit-camel my coach taught me basically how it is shown in this Rugh vid. He said the best you can really do is maintain speed b/c you are transitioning from a tight position (sit) to an open one (camel). I never learned the corkscrew. Since I am breaking in new skates right now, I have to wait a while before working on these spins again.

Yes, the sit-jump-sit is a cool element. It is not especially hard, but req's strong quads. i have seen multiple jumps w/in one sit. I have also seen this done as a back sit variant.

When I was learning the flying sit, I stumbled upon a version in the Lussi spin vid that intrigued me. The skater does a forward camel then jumps the transition to a forward sit. it looks like a flying sit w/in the camel-sit transition. It is also not hard to do esp if you already have a camel-sit combo and something resembling a flying sit. My flying sit was never high, but this combo is much easier, IMO. When you get back on the ice, give it a shot. You will enjoy doing this skill. Keep your free leg very straight and high in the transition and pass in the widest possible arc. This will give you the most speed, best position and highest lift. I warmed up for it by standing in the doorway to the players box, lifting my body up by my arms and assuming the aerial flying sit position. Do this w a really fast lift of the tucking leg. The faster the better. This skill is more strength than flexibility.

If you can, get your hands on the Lussi spin vids. Lots of good stuff that you can do yourself w your existing skill set.

have fun!

Kay

[Firefly123]

Speaking of really cool flying spins I will never be skilled enough to do ......I want this!! (at 3:48) Philippe Candeloro

http://<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/_woJJAcWXPY&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/_woJJAcWXPY&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

Flying sit (tuck) entry into flying camel. (Kind of a flying change sit but done so high and so well that he is able to catch it early enough to make a camel out of it instead of having to drop down into a sit like a normal human.)

[kayskate]

that spin is magnificent!

I saw a program by Kulik ( at least I think it was him) where he did what looked like it was going to be a flying sit. He kicked out in the air and landed in a forward camel. if I find the vid, I'll post or maybe someone else knows the link. It was incredible. I've never seen it again.

Kay

[Firefly123]

Flying. Forward. Camel. I have only dreamed of such a thing!!! It's like the skating version of a yeti or leprechaun. I've heard of it, but I don't think too many people have ever acutally seen one. Ditto with a Flying Layback (it's in the ISJ spin code, so theoretically, it exists.) Now, if they mean just doing a flying upright onto the left foot and then laying back the spin. No big deal ......But if they are talking about landing in a layback position (and I believe they are since most spins are designated by the landing position) then.......

Warning: Go hunting these creatures at your own peril. They could be horribly dangerous. (Especially the flying layback.)