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  1. #101
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    When they raised it, people had issues, not that they want to lower it back, people have issues.
    But they aren't the same people. So what's your point?

    Btw, I find it ironic that you don't like younger girls paired with older guys because of "inappropriate behavior" but are perfectly fine with that same team moving up to Seniors where the younger girl will be hanging out with even older men at competitions and training camps.
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  2. #102

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    Quote Originally Posted by reckless View Post
    Not a medical expert, but football is a very good example where the collective bargaining agreement tries to limit young athletes. They don't draw the difference between 21 and 23 year olds, but do between 18 and 21. Under the terms of the agreement, a player may not turn pro until at least three years after his high school graduation year. Since most players are 18 when they graduate, that means the early departures from college tend to be 21 before they play as pros. (There are a few exceptions where a player has graduated high school at 16 or 17, but generally this is the rule.) Both the NFL and the NFL Players Association have accepted this rule because they do not believe younger players are physically up to the rigors of football.
    And if you believe that, I've got a bridge to sell you.

    College football serves as pro football's farm team system, without the NFL having to pay for it, having to seek out and recruit the football players, dealing with the cost of injuries, ... The colleges get to keep players for at least a couple of years (because football doesn't have a one-and-done system like basketball). Everybody benefits financially from this decision to not allow younger players except the younger players. The NFL likes the college proving ground, the NFL players like the barrier to entry that keeps new players from knocking on the door too quickly, and the colleges like keeping athletes longer than they might otherwise. (See basketball.)

  3. #103

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    Quote Originally Posted by reckless View Post
    Except why is it fair to have 18-year old boys with 15-year old girl partners competing seniors who are 10+ years older? By collapsing the eligibility period for juniors, you are pushing more skaters into senior competition whey they clearely are not going to be ready physically for it. Do we need more senior pairs who cannot complete triple jumps or throw triple twists? And how are those young teams going to be able to get good national and international results if they cannot do anywhere close to the degree of difficulty in lifts and throws?

    And what about funding? Where are the new senior teams going to get funding when they are buried in the national and international ranks while they wait for the guy to get enough strength to become competitive with the top teams? How many of those teams are going to look at their options at age 18 and think, "hmmm, I could go to college now or I could struggle for 4 years without funding and then, maybe, Joe will have gotten strong enough that we can get some results."
    - No different than having fifteen-year-old swimmers competing against 45 (?) year-old Dara Torres. Senior is the highest level competition -- we don't kick people out because they're too old. (And just to eliminate any confusion, I have never argued that there is some kind of "inappropriate" behavior that is a result of wide age spread in junior pairs. Not my argument.)

    - Pretty minimal funding right now -- I doubt that would have a lot to do with whether or not a team would stay or go.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tammi View Post
    I would love to hear the opinion of someone in the medical field.
    I am not a medical expert either, but this is what I was told by those who are in figure skating coaching for years.

    Approach to pair skating in USSR was very serious. There were a lot of medical stuides conducted regarding the age for pairs. As a result, in USSR boys were not allowed to go to pais skating and to START training in pairs before they reach the age of 12. And the distribution of learning pair elements by years was also strict.

    I do not know what was the situation with dance at that time, but nowadays with all those difficult lifts, dance is closer to pairs in this area.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    If they have the strength to hold the landings and the abdominal strength to hold their bodies in lifts so that the boy is not doing a dead lift, I don't see why not. However, boys' shoulders, which are critical for lifts and throws, are not fully developed until their early to mid-20's.
    And the 13 year old girl's knees are developed enough to withstand the throw jumps? It seems there is a double standard here. Let's keep it safe for the boys, but let's not consider the health effects for the girls.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    Why not make it 72 for girls and 138 for the boys?
    Um, that's my point, there will always be someone who ages out and feels cheated. so, how high do we make the cut offs?

    Just don't change it. Leave it as it is. It is fine.
    If they leave it as is, That is fine. I was simply pointing out some issues that have arisen.

    And if you have issues relating to teenage delinquency, sexual abuse, parenting and what not, maybe you should seek professional advice instead of derailing this thread.
    Yeah, that's it. My "issues" are that I've seen some nasty stuff happen. I don't need advice, I really don't care that much. But, I know $hit happens and I offered another perspective on why they might want to lower the ages.
    Of course, everyone here over reacts if someone brings up a point that they don't want to hear. And of course, as in all aspects of life, we must protect the boys. If the girls are at a disadvantage, too bad, so sad?

    Maybe they should raise the minimum age for both, and make it 21 for both girls (women) and boys (men). If it's dangerous for the boy to be lifting the girl when he is 13, it's probably just as dangerous for a 13 year old girl to do some of the tricks. Even if the boy is strong enough, and even if she can do them.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by cruisin View Post
    And the 13 year old girl's knees are developed enough to withstand the throw jumps? It seems there is a double standard here. Let's keep it safe for the boys, but let's not consider the health effects for the girls.
    So having a boy with adequate upper body strength doing lifts, throws, and twists isn't safer for the girl?

    As far as a 13-year-olds knees, unless the entire juniors system is revamped to prohibit harder jumps and throws and to distinguish among skaters by quality of simple jumps and throws, making learning and practicing the harder ones have far less value, any concern for knees is at the coach/skater/parent level.
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  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    So having a boy with adequate upper body strength doing lifts, throws, and twists isn't safer for the girl?

    As far as a 13-year-olds knees, unless the entire juniors system is revamped to prohibit harder jumps and throws and to distinguish among skaters by quality of simple jumps and throws, making learning and practicing the harder ones have far less value, any concern for knees is at the coach/skater/parent level.

    Look, I have no inherent issue with age restrictions being higher. I actually think that could go a long way toward lowering injury risk. But, I think that if they keep the maximum higher, they should raise the minimum and make the age limits the same for girls. And I do think that there should be some limits to what skaters can/should do at younger ages. I said this in another thread, but I'll say it again: Just because they can do something, doesn't mean they should.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by cruisin View Post
    Look, I have no inherent issue with age restrictions being higher. I actually think that could go a long way toward lowering injury risk. But, I think that if they keep the maximum higher, they should raise the minimum and make the age limits the same for girls.

    This still will not help us in smaller country's. Finding partners is SO hard, finding them in a smaller group age group, well you may as well just wipe us from pairs and dance and I'm sure there are many countries in the same boat.

  9. #109
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    As I posted earlier, this rule will dry out Jr.pairs and dance. How many teams will be left for next season to compete JGP? Teams that have not done JGP and aged out next year will have no chance to compete internationally since they have to move up senior. JGP events will turn out to be juvenile/Novice competition. For the US skaters, next year, the senior teams will be way overcrowded and they all will be fighting for two or three spots of senior B events. Many teams will give up skating way sooner than they should.

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