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  1. #81

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    With the age restrictions for pairs and dance, it is unlikely they will have to worry about too many couples competing at ISU events for the next few years, at least. I can't believe they don't see the impact it could have on development.

  2. #82

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    Quote Originally Posted by OlieRow View Post
    Not just that, but the ISU shouldn't underestimate the impact going to Worlds (finishing last/not qualifying/etc) and seeing what it takes to be competitive firsthand can have. Ex: Bin Yao.
    Bin Yao could have learned just as much by going to a competition and watching every practice and competition segment. Competing in one qualifying round doesn't magically gift people with a certain level of knowledge. If he needed to know that he was terrible, I'm sure that he could have found himself judges who would have been happy to explain all of the places where he fell short.

    I don't need to compete in a skating competition to know that my skills aren't up to international competitive levels.

  3. #83

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    183 is ALL SORTS OF WIN!!!

    183. SPS (single and pairs skating) TC: Jump combinations are evaluated as one unit by adding the base values of the jumps included, multiplying the result by 1.1 and after that applying the GOE with the numerical value of the most difficult jump.
    Reason: to give more credit to jump combinations which are more difficult than the included jumps in isolation
    -Brian
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  4. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by barbk View Post
    Bin Yao could have learned just as much by going to a competition and watching every practice and competition segment. Competing in one qualifying round doesn't magically gift people with a certain level of knowledge. If he needed to know that he was terrible, I'm sure that he could have found himself judges who would have been happy to explain all of the places where he fell short.

    I don't need to compete in a skating competition to know that my skills aren't up to international competitive levels.
    That might be true, but he credits that experience as having a huge impact on his drive to create the Chinese pairs dynasty.

    From my rowing experience, I know I got far more out of racing a boat that won back-to-back NCAA Championships than I did going to watch NCAAs. It just doesn't compare to having them in the lane right next to you. I can see where being on the same ice as some of the World's best teams and being able to make direct comparisons could be a great learning tool. Not to mention what it would do to motivate younger skaters.

  5. #85
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    Some of these proposals don't make much sense to me........... Like the change in age limit for junior and the removal of the entire spiral from the short??? They don't even have to do one spiral?

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigB08822 View Post
    183 is ALL SORTS OF WIN!!!

    183. SPS (single and pairs skating) TC: Jump combinations are evaluated as one unit by adding the base values of the jumps included, multiplying the result by 1.1 and after that applying the GOE with the numerical value of the most difficult jump.
    Reason: to give more credit to jump combinations which are more difficult than the included jumps in isolation
    This should help Laura Lepisto and her 2sal/2toe/2loop combination get even more points.

  7. #87
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    I didn't realize that the 3A option for Ladies short program would be put forth in this manner. Is safe to assume that this is almost a done deal. I suspect that a higher base value for 3A and the mid-point will find their ways in sooner or later. With all the additional weight on 3A, I cautiously predict that Sochi will be a war of under-rotated 3A's for ladies.

    The restriction on 2A will not do much except widening the gap in score between better skaters and mediocre ones. The better ones easily find a way to live without it, but the mediocre ones cannot as they are not good jumpers in the first place, which is why they have not gotten many triples in their arsenal. This may shake up hardest those who fight to finish 19th. We may see a bigger splat fest.

    The additional 10% bonus on combinations makes sense. How is it to be applied on poorly done combinations (e.g., UR, wrong edges, etc.)?
    Last edited by key65man; 05-02-2010 at 05:24 AM.

  8. #88

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    Quote Originally Posted by shuilee View Post
    This should help Laura Lepisto and her 2sal/2toe/2loop combination get even more points.
    Can you imagine if she upgrades to 2flip/2toe/2loop next season. Can you say WORLD CHAMP!?
    -Brian
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  9. #89
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    I can't imagine the cutting down of skaters to last more than a few seasons, if making past next season at all.

    I have nothing to base that on of course, so carry on.

  10. #90
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    I get the idea of a 1.1 factor for jump combinations only if harder jumps base value is increased.
    Jumps combinations are already getting more points in a program since their number is limited to 3 and the skaters who can do 3-3 combinations get more base value than those who can only do 3-2.
    So this new factor will help skaters who tend to replace 3-2 by 2-2. Since it's easier to do a 2-2 than a 3-2 those skaters will get the 1.1 factor AND the positive GOE when skaters who do 3-2 or 3-3 will risk negative GOE and underrotation...
    Lepisto is going to love it !!
    But is it going in the right direction for sport ? I don't think so. For that the ISU would have to increase the base value of harder jumps, like quads. But obviously this is not in the pack.

    As for spiral sequence this is going to help skaters who are not good on this element and those who used to get level 4 won't get much rewarded for their skill.
    I don't think this is a good thing either. It's like the ISU was pulling FS down in doing a 180° after years of increasing skills level.

  11. #91
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    I haven't had time to read the entire document, so thatk you all for the summaries. I might have missed some proposals, so can you please enlighten me:

    1) It's great that finally jump combos are being recognised as more difficult than doing the jumps separately (you only now got that, ISU? wow). Has there been any suggestion to discard the 0.8 factor for jump sequences, on the basis that they ae at least as difficult as doing the jumps separately?

    2) It's nice that ladies will be allowed a 3A in the SP and that men (Ok, not men, just Reynolds) are allowed 2 quads in the SP, but has there been any more talk about raising the base values of 3As and quads?

    3) Any changes to the downgrade rules?

    4) I find it weird that they are dropping a step/spiral sequence from the SP. The SP has 3 jump elements with 4 jumps total, 3 spins and (had) 2 steps/spiral sequences. Dropping one of te latter skews the program in favore of the jump elements. I am one of those who care about jumps and want to see more emphasis put on the harder jumps, but I do not like to see the other elemnts dropped altogether. If they want to remove one SP element, drop the jump out of footwork, the Axle or one of the spins (which all look the same, anyway). I agree that most ladies spirals look the same these days (IOW ugly), but that is not reason enough to drop them.

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by barbk View Post
    Bin Yao could have learned just as much by going to a competition and watching every practice and competition segment. Competing in one qualifying round doesn't magically gift people with a certain level of knowledge. If he needed to know that he was terrible, I'm sure that he could have found himself judges who would have been happy to explain all of the places where he fell short.

    I don't need to compete in a skating competition to know that my skills aren't up to international competitive levels.
    It's absolutely ridiculous to assume that watching a competition is the same as taking part in it. It's a completely different experience.

    Skaters need competition experience. Competing at Ondrej Nepela Memorial is something completely, entirely different to competing at ISU Championships.

    Second Step Sequence not Called in FS

    That is a very very bad move.

    The fact both step sequences had levels meant the guys were doing something akin to figures. Now we're going to be back to one of the step sequences being three turns>toe-steps>hops>three-turns again.

    I'm going to try to put the ISU Championships cuts rules together in one place and am gonna to start another action thread once I am ready.

  13. #93

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    20. USA speed: 21 day advanced notice of any rule changes for competitors.
    With all these changes, if this passes, chances are they can't get the paperwork done for the official version before the JGP starts. A good thing, particularly when it comes to the pattern dance/short dance abortion combo.

    So of course:

    Council NOT in favor
    But is 21 days shorter or longer than current rules? Are there any time limits?
    Last edited by DORISPULASKI; 05-02-2010 at 03:30 PM.

  14. #94

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    This may be a dumb question but in regard to the Short Dance, is the required sequence (i.e., Golden Waltz for this season) going to change from year to year? I guess it should, if the purpose of it is to replace the compulsory dance. Same with the Pattern Dance the lower level skaters will have to do, that will change from year to year, right?

    Also, it was said that "Rhumba D'Amour" was removed from the list...that was the CD waiting to be approved created by T&D, wasn't it? It was never approved, afaik. Wonder if it will ever be now.

  15. #95

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    In some ways, Rhumba d'Amour is perfect for the new rules because it was something like 1.5 patterns, AFAIR? If they wanted to use it, just take the .5 pattern and off you go.

  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by DORISPULASKI View Post
    With all these changes, if this passes, chances are they can't get the paperwork done for the official version before the JGP starts. A good thing, particularly when it comes to the pattern dance/short dance abortion combo.

    So of course:



    But is 21 days shorter or longer than current rules? Are there any time limits?
    #20 is a speed skating proposal, not figure skating.

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    You're not really a bookworm, are you then?
    I read fiction, not legalese!

  18. #98
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    So after this a combination gets a 1.1 bonus, but a sequence still gets a 20% penalty

    If nothing else, sequences add to more interesting programs, and because many first jumps in combination lack flow out and the second (or second and third) jump(s) lack speed and flow and look tacked on, sequences very often look more powerful and more evenly performed. (But get no respect.)
    "'Is this new BMW-designed sled the ultimate sledding machine for Langdon and Holcomb?' Leigh Diffey asked before the pair cruised to victory. I don’t know, but I know that sled is the ultimate Olympic Games product placement.." -- Jen Chaney

  19. #99

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    I do not see how this 1.1 factoring of combinations is going to help Lepisto. As if she really plans on doubling her way to another World medal. The factoring of 1.1 is the same for all combinations so it does help those with the more difficult combinations because it will add more. If a jump is combo is worth 6 points total (so a really easy combination) then the factoring makes it worth 6.6 points. Someone doing a more difficult combination, say worth 10 points will now receive 11 points. They get .4 points extra from the same factoring method. I don't see how it would be worth more to do the super easy combo and hope for 2.5 GOE than to go for the more difficult combo and end up with 1 GOE. As long as you complete the combos, the factoring will benefit the harder jumps. Besides, Lepisto wont ever get close to a World podium again with that jump content.
    -Brian
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  20. #100
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    I think all new proposals are only for the big federations like USA, Canada, Japan and Russia, all smaller federations will be damaged with the new rules!

    The worst proposal for me is the minimum score!

    I very much hope that this proposal will be voted down from all smaller federations at the congress in june!
    Last edited by elfenblüte; 05-02-2010 at 06:18 PM.

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