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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by HisWeirness View Post
    318. ISU: Draws for starting order at ISU Championships. Update to reflect new format.
    Based on the result of the Short Dance,
    a) Competitors placed 1 to 15 in the ISU European Figure Skating Championships and the ISU Four Continents Figure Skating Championships will qualify for the final Free Dance.
    b) Competitors placed 1 to 16 in the ISU World Figure Skating Championships and the ISU World Junior
    Figure Skating Championships will qualify for the final Free Dance.
    DIE IN A FIRE ISU.

    Is this the same for singles and pairs?

    Thanks for killing figure skating.

    Novice age limit reduced from 15 to 13

    That's just idiotic. Junior SP requires a double axel and a lot of 13 year olds, let alone 12 year olds just don't have it ready yet.

    What is the harm in letting people stay in Novice a little longer. Especially considering that there aren't any high profile Novice competitions.

    Dumb dumb dumb.

    Quote Originally Posted by bookworm View Post
    Ughh, my head hurts from trying to understand this stuff.
    You're not really a bookworm, are you then?

  2. #62
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    I haven't seen this mentioned yet - is there once again no mention of rewarding skaters who do a complete set of jumps?

  3. #63
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    sorry, duplicate of one below.
    Last edited by kwanfan1818; 05-02-2010 at 12:57 AM.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  4. #64

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    Sorry if this has been asked/answered already...

    So if a skater does a 3Toe/half loop/3Sal sequence, would that count as their three jump combo (since the half loop would be getting the value of a jump)?

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by nlyoung View Post
    Yeah to limiting 2A in the long program to only 2. It was getting annoying that skaters without the full complement of triples were able to pad their score by filling up empty jump passes...
    Eight of the 24 Ladies at Worlds had three 2A's planned; several were singled:

    Kim, who had a 3/3 and thus earned an extra jump, the advantage of a 3/3 and because of the Zayak rule, she couldn't repeat another triple; she landed two 3Lz's. Two of the three planned axels were is separate combinations, including a 2A/3T She was missing only the loop.

    Sebestyen also skipped a loop, and two of her three axels were in a single sequence. She doubled the 3T in combination. Gimazetdinova was missing a flip attempt, but also did two of three axels in a single sequence.

    Of the remaining five, all but Lee had planned 2A's in combination or sequence: McCorkell, who also had no 3Lo planned, had one in the three-jump combination; Hecken, with no 3F or 3Lo planned, but opening with a 3T/3T which earns the extra jump pass, had one in her three-jump combo; Korpi and Kwak, who had all triples planned, had one planned 3S SEQ 2A and one 2A in the three-jump combo for Korpi and one 2A in a two-jump combo.

    Only Lee had 3 solo 2A's and no jump higher than a 3S.

    No Lutz Attempt:
    Asada
    Kostner
    Makarova
    Helgesson
    Lee
    Lafuente
    Glebova
    Gijsman

    No Flip Attempt:
    Ando
    Pfaneuf
    Lepisto
    Hecken
    Liu
    Lee
    Glebova
    Gedevanishvili
    Gimazetdinova


    No Loop Attempt:
    Kim
    McCorkell
    Hecken
    Sebestyen
    Lee
    Gedevanishvili
    Gimazetdinova

    No Sal Attempt:
    Asada
    Nagasu
    McCorkell
    Lafuente

    No Toe Attempt:
    Flatt??, doubled ??
    Kwak
    Gijsman

    Basic Five Planned:
    Suzuki
    Leonova
    Korpi

    Basic Five Landed:
    Suzuki
    Leonova

    3A landed
    Asada
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  6. #66
    The wiener takes it all
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    Quote Originally Posted by chipso1 View Post
    Sorry if this has been asked/answered already...

    So if a skater does a 3Toe/half loop/3Sal sequence, would that count as their three jump combo (since the half loop would be getting the value of a jump)?
    That's how I interpret it too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    Is this the same for singles and pairs?
    Here is a summary of the ISU Championships Entries rules:

    ISU Championships entries summary under new proposed rules

    Europeans and Four Continents
    Singles: 28 (Short Program) = 18 (direct entries) + 10 (QR)
    Pairs: 18 (Short Program = 12 (direct entries) + 6 (QR)
    Ice Dance: 20 (Short Dance) = 12 (direct entries) + 8 (QR)

    Free Skate/Dance
    Singles: top 18 after Short Program (10 cut from SP)
    Pairs: top 12 after Short Program (6 cut from SP)
    Ice Dance: top 15 after Short Dance (5 cut from SD)


    Worlds and Junior Worlds
    Singles: 30 (Short Program) = 18 (direct entries) + 12 (QR)
    Pairs: 20 (Short Program) = 12 (direct entries) + 8 (QR)
    Ice Dance: 25 (Short Dance) = 15 (direct entries) + 10 (QR)

    Free Skate/Dance
    Singles: top 20 after Short Program (10 cut from SP)
    Pairs: top 16 after Short Program (4 cut from SP)
    Ice Dance: top 16 after Short Dance (9 cut from SD)

  7. #67
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    Thanks a lot for that summary. I hope you won't mind me using it in the "Further Cuts to ISU Championships" thread/action (I will of course credit you).

    That is terrible. It's pretty much going to kill figure skating many places.

    Imagine you're an average level skater from a country which is far from being a skating powerhouse.

    Somebody like Martinec, Ostojic, Domanski, Kelemen.

    Under the new rules your chances of even appearing at ISU Championships, let alone qualifying to the final, become very small.

    Why bother then? At their age, they might progress a bit but they aren't going to make considerable progress on their technique. It's too late for that.

    I imagine a lot of skaters in their position are not going to bother anymore.

    I just feel like strapping explosives to my chest and blowing myself up inside ISU headquarters.

  8. #68
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    It is so sooo sad!

    Finally Austria has one pair in pair skating and they cannot compete the next season at Euros, Junior Worlds and Worlds, because he would be too old for Junior Worlds and they would never reach the minimum score in the SP and FP for Euros and Worlds!

    The bottom line is, that they will split

  9. #69
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    Yeah I think a lot of people might throw in the towel after seeing this...

    But then who cares. It's the Kims and Asadas that bring cash for the ISU, everybody else can go to hell for all they care...

  10. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    Yeah I think a lot of people might throw in the towel after seeing this...

    But then who cares. It's the Kims and Asadas that bring cash for the ISU, everybody else can go to hell for all they care...
    And neither of them came from a federation that has been consistently large and/or powerful in the past. Which speaks to the utter stupidity of rules that will do nothing but discourage skaters from those lesser federations, no matter how talented those skaters might be individually.

  11. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by taz'smum View Post
    The way the coaches at my daughter's rink have interpreted it is that the change of rythym is optional, so they are using just one piece of waltz music.
    It's pretty confusing at the moment, but it was explained to me that at least one additional rhythm needed to be included. Of course, the waltz is listed as one of those options. It's not clear yet if that means it can be the same tempo/beat, or if that has to change. (I'm trying to confirm this, so I'll post if I get a response).

    Quote Originally Posted by rhumba View Post
    Does this mean many junior pairs/teams will have to move up to senior this season? How many age eligible pairs/teams left for JGP this year?? I think almost all of the US junior pairs/teams won't be eligible for JGP??
    The age proposal is for next season, so if it passes, it won't affect anyone this year. As ridiculous as this proposal is, it would be even worse if it went into effect immediately, considering teams would have already had to inform the ISU of what level they were planning on competing at.

    I'm very surprised at the Russian counter-proposal which still lowers the age. Looking through the pairs list that Sammyf provided in the JGP 2010 thread, it appears that most of the Russian pairs teams would be forced out of juniors.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by overedge View Post
    And neither of them came from a federation that has been consistently large and/or powerful in the past. Which speaks to the utter stupidity of rules that will do nothing but discourage skaters from those lesser federations, no matter how talented those skaters might be individually.
    Yes.

    Developing skating in any given country takes a lot of time and a lot of hard work (of course it could be sped up if you had an unlimited amount of resources - but that remains purely theoretical).

    Motivation requires reinforcements. If the bar is set so high up, there aren't really any in sight, why should you bother.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by gkelly View Post
    As I understand it, they can use their best score from any international event in the current or preceding season.
    [...]
    So there's no need for a special extra event "in the beginning of the skating season- [to] have those skaters that didn't make it compete before the isu world technical panel and give them a whole year to work it out" -- they could use any senior B event or a junior event, including Junior Worlds, if they're age eligible.
    Can this really be any int'l event, like an ISU b one? When I was going through the proposals I thought by an international ISU event they meant (j)GPs, Euros, 4CC, Jr Worlds or Worlds and it got me kinda scared as that, IMO, would eliminate even more skaters...

    That is terrible. It's pretty much going to kill figure skating many places.
    [...]
    I imagine a lot of skaters in their position are not going to bother anymore.
    That's what I feared of, too.
    Last edited by gosia.douceur; 05-01-2010 at 09:18 PM.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by elfenblüte View Post
    It is so sooo sad!

    Finally Austria has one pair in pair skating and they cannot compete the next season at Euros, Junior Worlds and Worlds, because he would be too old for Junior Worlds and they would never reach the minimum score in the SP and FP for Euros and Worlds!

    The bottom line is, that they will split
    The same is true for many small federations.

    However small a federation, they have one vote in the ISU Congress. So I hope the Austrian Federation and all other smaller federations shall vote NO to this ISU proposition.

    This rule change would kill figure skating in many small countries. They have nothing worse to fear from the ISU. It's as simple as that.

  15. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by gosia.douceur View Post
    Can this really be any int'l event, like an ISU b one? When I was going through the proposals I thought by an international ISU event they meant (j)GPs, Euros, 4CC, Jr Worlds or Worlds and it got me kinda scared as that, IMO, would eliminate even more skaters...



    That's what I feared of, too.
    I took it as any ISU sanctioned competition -- thus including Senior Bs. No reason that there couldn't be more of them.

  16. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by elfenblüte View Post
    It is so sooo sad!

    Finally Austria has one pair in pair skating and they cannot compete the next season at Euros, Junior Worlds and Worlds, because he would be too old for Junior Worlds and they would never reach the minimum score in the SP and FP for Euros and Worlds!

    The bottom line is, that they will split
    The age limit won't take effect for next year -- I don't think that would be a problem for them.

    And isn't it just an SP qualification score for Worlds, as well as participating in a single ISU sanctioned event? If they can't meet the very low score shown in the proposal, might they not be better off staying home and working to improve their elements? (Most sincerely -- if they're really that weak on the elements then more practice is likely to do them a whole lot more good than watching Worlds because you didn't even make it out of qualifying.)

  17. #77
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    It's not about the minimum scores. In case of pairs, a lot of the teams will be able to meet them.

    But the number of people even being allowed to compete is reduced so drastically, they most likely will never get the chance.

    And you need both competition experience and daily work in order to improve.

  18. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    And you need both competition experience and daily work in order to improve.
    Not just that, but the ISU shouldn't underestimate the impact going to Worlds (finishing last/not qualifying/etc) and seeing what it takes to be competitive firsthand can have. Ex: Bin Yao.

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asli View Post
    The same is true for many small federations.

    However small a federation, they have one vote in the ISU Congress. So I hope the Austrian Federation and all other smaller federations shall vote NO to this ISU proposition.

    This rule change would kill figure skating in many small countries. They have nothing worse to fear from the ISU. It's as simple as that.
    I hope too! I will write a mail to the Austrian federation.

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by barbk View Post
    The age limit won't take effect for next year -- I don't think that would be a problem for them.

    And isn't it just an SP qualification score for Worlds, as well as participating in a single ISU sanctioned event? If they can't meet the very low score shown in the proposal, might they not be better off staying home and working to improve their elements? (Most sincerely -- if they're really that weak on the elements then more practice is likely to do them a whole lot more good than watching Worlds because you didn't even make it out of qualifying.)
    But if they skate at the QR for Euros and/or Worlds and doesn't qualify to the SP, they have the experience and motivation to train more and reach the SP and the FP in the next season's European and World Championships.

    The minimum score makes no sense to me, if they introduce a QR.

    The ISU should let all skaters/pairs at least to the qualifying rounds and not exclude skaters from competing at the ISU Championships with a minimum score.

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