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  1. #101
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    Why not? If you honestly think it is unfair and wrong. Why not fight it?

  2. #102
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    I don't think they are unfair or wrong. I think they honestly are a nice challenge and I do enjoy them. I can see how people might not like them especially kids, since I did not like them when I started pre-pre as an older teenager. I think of it like taking english classes in college (like 101, 102 etc.). I don't really enjoy it, but it has made me a better writer and that will help me with my papers in all of my classes. Just like learning MITF has helped my freestyle and my dance.

    I was just saying how they can be inconveniant. Not that I do not think we need them.

  3. #103
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    OK. I've checked out the scoresheets. There were a lot up there but I concentrated on what should be "the best" (Masters Ladies Senior 1 and Championship Masters Junior/Senior).

    There were no triple jumps attempted at all.

    There were 2 double axels attempted. The one done in Masters Ladies Senior 1 received negative GOEs. The one done in Championship Masters got a +1 GOE.

    There were quite a few 2Lutzes. (Some done in combinations). There were more 2-2 combos than I had originally thought. So that is good.

    There were some flying spins, but most were camels. Some flying sit attempts got 0 credit across the board. (Not sure if they fell or didn't do them or slipped off the takeoff or what.???) Even at the higher levels, most flying spins seemed to be camels.

    I'm sure that the transition marks were good. I only looked at jumps and flying spins.

    All in all it was better than I thought, but still not what I would expect given the relatively young ages (in Senior 1) and the quality edges (due to the high level MITF tests) .....

  4. #104

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly123 View Post
    I am 40 years old. It is embarrassing to skate against teenagers. Do any of you guys really want to skate against teens? Seriously. I'm not "afraid" to skate against them, but it's kind of embarrassing.....Don't you think?
    No more embarrassing than for a 60-year-old to skate against a 25-year-old. And that can happen all the time at club competitions or in men's events even at adult championships.

    The whole point is to find a competition level that matches your skills.

    There isn't a whole cohort out there of 40-year-old women who can do more variety of double jumps than double threes or brackets. You can call yourself a "freak" or just take it for what it is and recognize that your skill set is highly unusual for your age group.

    There is a cohort of teenage girls at that skill level.

    If they had more time, more money, more talent, and/or more favorable body type for skating, or if they'd started skating earlier, they'd be in intermediate at that age.

    Some will get there next year; others don't expect to. You might get to adult masters the next year, or you may find that you're not talented enough to get there even if you try.

    Some of them might be embarrassed not to be able to pass the intermediate tests. But if they love to compete, they enter the event that best fits their skill level. You could do the same.

    Can you skate a passing intermediate test program? Forget about the MITF, can you do with at least one axel, single-single combo, solo double toe or double sal, any double-single or double-double combo, flying spin (5 revs), combo spin (4 on each foot), and step sequence fully utilizing the ice surface all within a 2:30 program with no more than two mistakes, and correct any mistakes on demand immediately afterward?

    If yes, great, you'd do well in adult gold or open juvenile competition. If not, then you've got more to work on than just the MITF tests.

    It's worth looking into.

    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly123 View Post
    There were some flying spins, but most were camels. Some flying sit attempts got 0 credit across the board. (Not sure if they fell or didn't do them or slipped off the takeoff or what.???) Even at the higher levels, most flying spins seemed to be camels.
    Probably because the definition of what counts as a sitspin is not very forgiving for adult bodies. The buttocks had to be even with the top of the knee or lower; an inch or two higher and the spin gets no credit.
    Last edited by gkelly; 06-01-2010 at 12:03 AM.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly123 View Post
    I am 40 years old. It is embarrassing to skate against teenagers. Do any of you guys really want to skate against teens? Seriously. I'm not "afraid" to skate against them, but it's kind of embarrassing.....Don't you think?
    *raises hand* I've done it, and I know others have too. It was the only way to participate in a particular competition, so I did it. No one cared. I was honored to be there, to be eligible to compete at that level, and thrilled that I actually beat a few of them!!

  6. #106
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    Ok, If you say so. Still seems embarrassing to me, tough. Although, even skating ISI at high level I will still be skating primarily against teens, (unless I somehow scrape together enough $ to travel to Las Vegas for their Adult Championships which will probably never happen.)

    gkelly, Thanks for the info on the flying sit. I'll have to pay special attention to that.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly123 View Post
    Um....It's not an anti-me agenda....But I do find this requirement "unduly prohibitive" and so do MANY of the parents (and lower level skaters I have talked to). We would like to be included too. Many of us simply find your "standard" set just a little too high, but want to stay in the sport without "sucking it up." So sorry. And, no, I don't think gkelly is a nut. But I do think she is a very intelligent representative of the system.....
    The system is what it is. It's designed to promote all-round skating resulting in figure skating programs that look attractive and display good figure skating skills. If you don't have good all-round skills, you don't belong in the higher categories. Therefore, there is nothing unethical in entering competitions at the level you belong it--which in your case would be Pre-Bronze. If someone else has lower level jumps and spins but has good edgework, a well-balanced, well-thought out program, and does a good job interpreting the music, and you do nothing but jump and spin, you will probably get crushed like a bug, because you are not doing what is required by the competition! But since you indicated earlier on that all you want to do is make a point that should make you just as happy as if you won.

    If you are serious about thinking adults should not have to take MITF because adults should be able to choose what to spend their time on, instead of talking to discontented parents, you should engage in appropriate communications with the USFS's Adult Committee. Do try not to alienate them!

  8. #108
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    If you are serious about thinking adults should not have to take MITF because adults should be able to choose what to spend their time on, instead of talking to discontented parents, you should engage in appropriate communications with the USFS's Adult Committee. Do try not to alienate them!
    Believe me, I have tried.
    Last edited by Firefly123; 06-01-2010 at 12:26 AM.

  9. #109
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    The general age split in pro-am ballroom for the A age division is age 16 to 35. Some comps break it into A1 and 2, but mostly, it's just A. Meaning I can go up against girls who are literally half my age. It's not embarrassing. Especially if I win.

  10. #110
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    I hope I get used to it, too.

    I will have to, or I won't be able to skate ISI either.

  11. #111

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly123 View Post
    Many of us simply find your "standard" set just a little too high
    Who is this "your" you are talking about?

    I'm not the USFS. I don't set the USFS test standards. I'm not even American.

    Cut the patronizing cr*p about "the system" and don't assume that everyone who disagrees with you is a tool of the figure skating establishment, American or otherwise.

  12. #112
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    Who is this "your" you are talking about?

    I'm not the USFS. I don't set the USFS test standards. I'm not even American.
    I am not attacking individual people. I do not do that. I am very careful to only attack ideas (or a rules), not individual human beings. And, yes, I have spoken to other skaters who also believe the standard set by the USFS for MITF tests (not "you" personally) is prohibitive against skaters who would like to compete, but find they are discouraged/unable to because of these tests. That is true.

    And of course, you are allowed to disagree with me. Just like I am allowed to disagree with you (and still be treated with respect). That is what a forum is (supposed) to be all about.

  13. #113
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    DO YOUR TURNS AND STOP WHINING!

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly123 View Post
    There were no triple jumps attempted at all.

    There were 2 double axels attempted.
    Firefly, I think you have a bit of an incorrect idea of what adult skating is. Unless I missed something at an AN that I didn't attend (and I would probably have heard about if I did), the only triples landed ever at Adult Nationals have been landed by only a few Championship Masters (Jr/Sr) men. The only triple I have seen attempted by a woman was done at Adult Mids years ago (she may have tried it at AN - I wasn't there that year) and it was a 3T-fall. I don't know if they've been attempted in other sections, but I doubt it - and especially not under IJS. Too risky. Doing a 2A as an adult is DA BOMB! as far as I am concerned.

    As I am sure you know, being an adult skater has its own set of challenges. Work, parenthood, yada yada. It is very difficult to be training 2A's and triples unless one had them as a kid, and even then aging bodies makes them harder and harder to maintain.

  15. #115
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    Ziggy, Sigh.

    As I am sure you know, being an adult skater has its own set of challenges. Work, parenthood, yada yada. It is very difficult to be training 2A's and triples unless one had them as a kid, and even then aging bodies makes them harder and harder to maintain.
    I agree completely. So why deliberately make it harder for individual adults to compete? It simply doesn't make any sense. It would make more sense to drop as many requirements as possible so that all adults who want to enter can do so easily without jumping through hoops and paying $ and spending time they simply don't have.

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly123 View Post
    I agree completely. So why deliberately make it harder for individual adults to compete? It simply doesn't make any sense. It would make more sense to drop as many requirements as possible so that all adults who want to enter can do so easily without jumping through hoops and paying $ and spending time they simply don't have.
    Because it's a sport that includes more than just jump and spin elements.

    And it's not going to change for one person.

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly123 View Post
    So why deliberately make it harder for individual adults to compete? It simply doesn't make any sense. It would make more sense to drop as many requirements as possible so that all adults who want to enter can do so easily without jumping through hoops and paying $ and spending time they simply don't have.
    Actually, this has been argued by some people within USFS. I believe, and maybe Daisies if she checks in on this thread can affirm this, that it was decided that the value of MITF outweighed the value of being all-inclusive to the point of not having MITF standards.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    Because it's a sport that includes more than just jump and spin elements.

    And it's not going to change for one person.
    Firefly, I am not thrilled that they lowered the age to 21. I think that it has drastically changed the sport in favor of kid skaters coming straight from standard comps to college to adults - at least at gold and up. I think it ultimately will squeeze the older skaters right out of the the championship events, with the exception of those who were exceptional to start with. However, USFS wanted to be more inclusive for that age group. Fine. As an alternative, I think that maybe they should separate the championship events to under 35 and over 35 divisions. I have mentioned this to several members of the adult committee, to deaf ears.

    So what are my options? I might stop skating at sectionals in protest, but I enjoy competing with my fellow skaters. I enjoy the experience itself, even if I'm not really competitive any longer. So I go and I have fun. Because of my frustration with the freestyle rules, I have discovered another discipline of figure skating - ice dance - that I never thought I'd like. I'm successful at it - even competing against the younger adults - and I enjoy it quite a bit. (I just wish there were more men - I need a partner! )

    There's always options when working within the system. They may require changing your discipline, or changing your attitude, or doing something that you don't want to do. If you truly want to compete, then you will make it work - because Ziggy is absolutely right.

  18. #118
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    Actually, this has been argued by some people within USFS. I believe, and maybe Daisies if she checks in on this thread can affirm this, that it was decided that the value of MITF outweighed the value of being all-inclusive to the point of not having MITF standards.
    Thank you for this information. I was not aware of this. So, in the final analysis, the MITF were more important than the skaters. Nice.

    There's always options when working within the system. They may require changing your discipline, or changing your attitude, or doing something that you don't want to do. If you truly want to compete, then you will make it work - because Ziggy is absolutely right.
    Well.....It is obvious that if I want to participate I will have to follow the rules...... So I will just have to do that. I will participate, but I will not break any rules......stretch some maybe, but not break any.....
    Last edited by Firefly123; 06-01-2010 at 01:42 AM. Reason: Added observation that needed adding

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly123 View Post
    Thank you for this information. I was not aware of this. So, in the final analysis, the MITF were more important than the skaters. Nice.
    No. My son would like to eat candy all day long, but it isn't good for him. He has to eat his vegetables whether he likes them or not. We need to do our moves in the field, whether we like them or not. Seriously, MITF are way easier and more fun than figures. Be grateful you don't have to do those!

    Oh, and Firefly - all joking aside. I love to jump. It's the best thing about skating - it's flying! I hate to spin, and do them only when it's competition time and I have to. I pay for it, too. I did find MITF to be challenging, fun and worthwhile. I was grandfathered (by design) so only had to do Gold. Then I went and did Intermediate. I'd do Novice if I had the training time available, but I don't.

  20. #120
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    I did find MITF to be challenging, fun and worthwhile. I was grandfathered (by design) so only had to do Gold. Then I went and did Intermediate. I'd do Novice if I had the training time available, but I don't.
    I think maybe this is what a lot of this is about. Most skaters take it good naturedly. They don't seem to hate it at the level I do (because as I mentioned my edges are not ice edges and they never will be due to muscle memory.)

    I can see your point about the vegetalbes.....But as an adult I can (and pretty much do) eat candy all day long. (Well, not all day, but I certainly do eat a lot of it). Now, I may pay for this (and, believe me since age 21 I have done a lot of things that aren't good for me. But I am an adult. So that is my choice.) Why force vegies down an adult's throat?

    Like I said, I can and will play by the rules because this is the only game in town (unfortunately)......But I have a natural....antipathy...towards these rules (becuase like the vegies they were forced on me)....So, as any lawyer will tell you there are many, many ways to follow the rules.... If they want to force vegies on me, I just may spit them back up. (I've seen babies do this. Not pretty.)

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