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  1. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by timing View Post
    Someone else got them. I just paid.

    I did a google search and found that they are available from PSA online store and some other sites. The fourth edition is $10 and the fifth edition is $15 in the PSA online store. It looks like there is small extra charge for non PSA members.
    Thanks -- I'll need to get the new one too.

    Someone else got me the previous copy.

  2. #62
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    Here you can find standards and common errors for the new moves.

    Here you can find standards and common errors for the current moves.

    Diagrams and patterns and information for the new moves can be found here.

    Diagrams and patterns and information for current moves can be found in the test rulebook linked here.

    Hope that helps!

  3. #63
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    Purple Sparkles,

    Thank you for the links.

    I am going to try to get through as many of these things (MITF) as possible by Adult Nats. I think I have until Feb 1st. Will give it a try and see what happens (another foot surgery is scheduled for Fall, so this in going to be hard.)

    Queston: Do you think the judges are "harder" on adults who test the standard track MITF than adults who skate the adult track MITF? If I stay on the standard track I can take one less test (since I already passed prepliminary).

  4. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly123 View Post
    Queston: Do you think the judges are "harder" on adults who test the standard track MITF than adults who skate the adult track MITF? If I stay on the standard track I can take one less test (since I already passed prepliminary).
    Yes, because of the difference in the passing averages between the tests. For instance, the Five Step Mohawk Sequence appears on the Adult Bronze and Pre-Juvenile MIF tests. The Bronze test has a passing average of 2.5, while the Pre-Juv test has a passing average of 2.7. The skater taking the Pre-Juv test has to do the move better in order to pass. Another example - there are several moves currently on both the Intermediate and Adult Gold MIF tests - the forward and backward power circles, the back double threes, the inside slide chasse pattern, and brackets in the field. To pass Gold, you only need a 3.0 passing average, but when you do them again on the Intermediate tests (the one adults take after they pass Gold), you have to get a 3.2 to pass.

    Of course, if you take advantage of the new "adult standard" that will go into effect in September, you get a .2 break on the passing average. In that case, there should be no difference between the tests. How that plays out in practice with different judging panels, though, is anybody's guess.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clarice View Post
    Of course, if you take advantage of the new "adult standard" that will go into effect in September, you get a .2 break on the passing average. In that case, there should be no difference between the tests. How that plays out in practice with different judging panels, though, is anybody's guess.
    I think that only applies to standard track tests intermediate and above though.
    For tests below intermediate the adult standard is the adult track.

    /could be wrong...
    Last edited by Skittl1321; 05-24-2010 at 01:44 PM. Reason: because "above intermediate" does not include intermediate, and I meant to

  6. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skittl1321 View Post
    I think that only applies to standard track tests intermediate and above though.
    For tests below intermediate the adult standard is the adult track.

    /could be wrong...
    That is correct - I wasn't clear. The standard for the adult Bronze/Silver/Gold tests is already .2 below the corresponding standard track test, so if you want the "adult advantage" you take the adult tests. Starting at Intermediate, you'll be able to choose which track you're testing on.

    Of course, for those of us over 50, there will be the Masters option - .2 lower on the adult MIF tests, and .4 lower on the standard tests Intermediate and above.

  7. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clarice View Post
    That is correct - I wasn't clear. The standard for the adult Bronze/Silver/Gold tests is already .2 below the corresponding standard track test, so if you want the "adult advantage" you take the adult tests.
    That's not strictly true.

    E.g., the bronze test contains moves from both the preliminary and prejuvenile standard tests, and the passing average is the same as preliminary.

    The silver test contains moves from prejuvenile and juvenile, and the passing average is the same as prejuvenile.

    The gold test contains moves from juvenile and intermediate, and the passing average is the same as juvenile.

    So for each of those tests, some of the individual moves have the same passing average on both the standard and adult tracks, and some of the individual moves have a passing average that's 0.2 or 0.3* below on the adult track than it would be on the standard track.

    *The difference between prejuvenile/silver and juvenile passing standards is 0.3, 2.7 vs. 3.0.

    Starting at Intermediate, you'll be able to choose which track you're testing on.
    Starting at intermediate, the exact same collection of moves will be on the test, with the exact same name of the test, and you'll be able to choose which standard you want to take the test at.

    Before intermediate they're completely separate test tracks with different arrangements of which move is on which test. You can choose which of those tracks to test.

    Or if you're a slow learner like me, you could choose to do both, testing most of the moves twice.

  8. #68
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    Just wanted to throw in my 2 cents about passing averages. I took adult gold MIF and barely passed, then one month later took intermediate MIF and passed with lots of extra points. The judging panel was almost completely the same judges. I don't know how accurate it is that they give you lower scores just for being an adult, because that definitely didn't happen to me. But I also had a "bad" day on my gold test, and had a really "good" day when I took intermediate. The best thing you can do is be able to skate everything really strongly, rather than worry if you are .2 away from passing standard. The judges will look at you and be able to tell what level you are and give you appropriate scores in order to pass or not pass the whole test. They normally don't give too much above the average unless you are really amazing, so I wouldn't worry about it. I'd say unless you are really old, go ahead and give the standard moves a try if you make it past gold. If you can make it to the higher level MIF tests, then you probably don't skate timidly enough to need the .2 lower average anyway. That's just what I think - maybe others think differently.

  9. #69
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    Finally got back onto the ice. Tried some MITF. Wanted to put my head through boards to end the misery. Ended up skating off and doing jumps before my head exploded. There HAS to be a better way......I'm working on a way to "ethically" participate in USFS, but avoid MITF. I want to go and have fun, too.....But I understand that there are rules.....If I can find a way to follow the rules, but still avoid (most) of the MITF, and not act unethically by skating an event under my level, but still participate (at least in a small way), then it would be a win-win.

    Working on this idea.....Thinking.....Thinking.....

  10. #70
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    You know, I don't really know any kid skaters at least who liked MITF. But there wasn't (and isn't) a choice -- if you want to compete, you get through the moves. My coach made me go through whatever test I was on, to her standards, at least once per session before I was allowed to jump or spin. I hated it, but once I passed my senior moves I never had to do moves again. If you're capable of doing the jumps you say you are, you should be capable of doing the lower level field moves. If you're not, then working on the moves will dramatically improve your jumps -- solid 3-turns (or mohawks), for instance, will make your flips much more secure. And now with IJS, you actually get points for things like rockers and counters and brackets, and you learn those through the moves tests. I know how hard it was to learn loops in order to put them in my footwork -- I can't imagine having to learn all of the turns required for a L3 footwork sequence without having learned at least some of them through the moves tests.

    Why not use moves as your warm-up every day?

  11. #71
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    Actually, I do..... Kind of....

    Of course, I don't just skate onto the ice and start jumping. I usually do all 3 turns (in both directions) and a few brackets (the ones that are easy for me) and counters and a rocker or two. Then some spirals and pivots. Maybe some chaines and slides (I just LOVE slides!!!!) Then I usually spin. After spins, I do flying spins and jumps. And, as you mentioned, of course there are basic 3 turns and mohawks to set up the items. So, yes, in a sense I do moves.....They are just my version which usually go in my own direction and which don't need to be in a specific ("picky") pattern on the floor. And yes, you are correct. Under ISJ there is definitely a emphasis on transitions into jumps and moves are definitely needed to get higher levels on footwork.....But under adult rules, (even ISJ), you can just choose a spiral sequence instead so the MITF aren't that critical. From what I've seen of the jumps (even at Junior/Senior level on youtube) two or three good, solid 2-2 combos would definitely even up the playing field there. So, although, I certainly agree with you about the MITF for standard, I really don't think they are that critical in this area for adult. (At least that's what it looks like to me from youtube. Admittedly, I haven't had a chance to actually attend adult nats. I'm hoping to go this year even if I have to travel. Maybe to skate. Maybe just to watch. Will have to see. Could change my opinion then. It's hard to tell anything just by watching youtube.)

  12. #72
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    You may find it less frustrating if you start right out w/ a couple of lessons w/ a coach who can give you pointers on how to make things easier. There are definitely 'tricks' to some of the elements.

    Which moves did you try? If you post some videos I'm sure some people here would be happy to give you some pointers.

  13. #73
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    Firefly- it sounds to me like you only like to practice things you're good at. (Yeah- me too. Brackets are great fun on the ones I can do. Same with the moves I like- love running them. Hate doing the hard moves)

    But you know what- I do what's fun for me, because that's why I skate. I don't compete because I have no interest in continuing to hurt myself and pay out huge PT bills to work on jumps I don't care about. I work on the hard moves sometimes- I'd like to pass the next test, but I know it will be slow progress because I don't set aside the fun stuff and work on the stuff that needs to get done.

    For whatever reason, you seem to want to compete. And that means you can't just work on what's fun. You gotta do what the system requires.

    If you just want to do what's fun, join your club and participate in exhibitions. I even know of an adult who volunteered to be on her club's board to organize the exhibitions for the kids- and guess what, she gets to skate in them too. In an exhibition you can do whatever you want, no rules.

  14. #74

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    I like to make up my own MITF. To keep it challenging, I use both directions. I think this is fun. For ex: I do a version of forward power 3s w alternating back xovers so I do a different direction 3turn direction in between.
    CW back xover
    CCW back xover
    RFO3
    CCW back xover
    CW back xover
    LFO3
    repeat.
    Can also be done w FI3s.

    A friend of mine went to a former show skaters who taught her some basic MITF type patterns w expression of arms and head. They are extremely pretty and variations on simple skills. I want to learn these too.

    I also enjoy doing basic dance steps around the rink on lobes like chasses, change edge swing rolls, etc. Backward and forward. It mixes it up and keeps things fun while I improve my basic skating skills. Depending on how adv you are, you can add twizzles, loops, brackets, etc. I like to change directions all the way around the rink so i don't do the same side for half of the rink then change. This keeps me changing directions and working on my weak side. i will also complete a pattern w a jump or spin. This gives me the feel of MITF into an element. If you compete, this will definitely benefit your choreography.

    W a little ingenuity, MITF can be a lot of fun.

    Kay
    www.skatejournal.com

  15. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly123 View Post
    ... Under ISJ there is definitely a emphasis on transitions into jumps and moves are definitely needed to get higher levels on footwork.....But under adult rules, (even ISJ), you can just choose a spiral sequence instead so the MITF aren't that critical.(respectfully snipped)
    It's IJS, fyi.

  16. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by kayskate View Post
    I like to make up my own MITF. To keep it challenging, I use both directions. I think this is fun. For ex: I do a version of forward power 3s w alternating back xovers so I do a different direction 3turn direction in between.
    CW back xover
    CCW back xover
    RFO3
    CCW back xover
    CW back xover
    LFO3
    repeat.
    Can also be done w FI3s.

    A friend of mine went to a former show skaters who taught her some basic MITF type patterns w expression of arms and head. They are extremely pretty and variations on simple skills. I want to learn these too.

    I also enjoy doing basic dance steps around the rink on lobes like chasses, change edge swing rolls, etc. Backward and forward. It mixes it up and keeps things fun while I improve my basic skating skills. Depending on how adv you are, you can add twizzles, loops, brackets, etc. I like to change directions all the way around the rink so i don't do the same side for half of the rink then change. This keeps me changing directions and working on my weak side. i will also complete a pattern w a jump or spin. This gives me the feel of MITF into an element. If you compete, this will definitely benefit your choreography.

    W a little ingenuity, MITF can be a lot of fun.

    Kay
    www.skatejournal.com
    Amen, Kay - and if Firefly had read your journal, she would see that both MITF and dance made you a better skater, even though you already had mad skills.

  17. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by aster View Post
    You know, I don't really know any kid skaters at least who liked MITF.
    I do! A girl at my rink is really good at MITF. She just loves it. Most of her MITF tests were a whole point over the passing total. That means every element was at least 0.1 to 0.2 over the passing average. She learned and passed the senior MITF in 4 months with way above passing average. She is definitely an exception rather than norm.

  18. #78
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    Yes, I think that is the whole crux of the problem. If the MITF are so good for skaters and help their skating skills so much, then why force them on the skaters, (which is what they are doing by requireing them on tests)? I would think that skaters, themselves, would be desperate to take them in order to improve their jumps and spins. And, as many members mentioned, if you did't require them, then (most) skaters simply wouldn't do them. But then I guess it could be argued that if most skaters felt that way then maybe that is how the sport should evolve.....in that direction.....rather than enforcing a discipline to prop up an artifically imposed standard.

    Interesting observation: Is figure skatng a democracy? I have been advised to try to change the rules by getting others to agree with me. I have complained to more than a few parents, (not coaches, of course since they benefit financially by the present system), and many parents (and skaters) agree with me that MITF are unduly prohibitive. They even said they wouldn't mind signing a petition to see them made elective and remove them as a requirement for freestyle testing. How many signatures would I need? That is the problem. Even if I spend time, effort, and $ on a petition, (none of which I have), and got over 10,000 signatures and brought the whole thing to the USFS they would simply laugh and vote no. It is an oligarchy not a democracy. I guess that is where I get fustrated. And btw, I was actually suprised by how many skaters (and parents) hate the MITF and said they would be willing to sign my petition. I probaby could get a few thousand signatures in support of making it elective. Seriously. I could. But, as I wrote, what's the point.......

    And I really do disagree about skaters getting hurt. Obviously, the more a skater jumps the more stress is put upon their body. That is true. But there are so many other factors to consider. The strength and physical make up of the skater. How much practice time he/she is putting in to begin with. The skater's weight and jump technique. I'm sorry, but there are just too many factors involved to arbitrarily say that taking out MITF is going to injure skaters. (Unless, of course, you want to support MITF. I have written term papers too. It's the old eating white bread causes violent crime because 97% of all inmates inprisoned for violent crimes have eaten it argument.)

    But instead of insulting and arguing with me, maybe you guys should just consider this for a second. What is wrong with a choice? Especially at the adult level? Make MITF elective. If I get hurt, then, hey that's MY problem. I am an adult. I made my choice. There are enough adults that actually like the MITF and feel that it helps their overall skating that they will still take it. Why not make it elective at least the adult level? We are adults, after all. Choice is good.

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly123 View Post
    So, although, I certainly agree with you about the MITF for standard, I really don't think they are that critical in this area for adult.
    This is incorrect. Good skating skills can make up for lack of jumping skills at the adult level, and good skating skills coupled with good jumping skills will give the edge to that skater over someone who doesn't have as good of skating skills.

    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly123 View Post
    But instead of insulting and arguing with me, maybe you guys should just consider this for a second. What is wrong with a choice? Especially at the adult level? Make MITF elective. If I get hurt, then, hey that's MY problem. I am an adult. I made my choice. There are enough adults that actually like the MITF and feel that it helps their overall skating that they will still take it. Why not make it elective at least the adult level? We are adults, after all. Choice is good.
    There's nothing wrong with choice. You have a choice. You can refuse to do moves and therefore not compete, or you can suck it up, do the moves and compete. Those are your options, and they aren't going to change. The only way I see the moves requirement disappearing is by having a figures requirement come back, and trust me - you would like figures even less than moves.

  20. #80

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    Look at it this way: At least you don't have to do FIGURES!!!!

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