Need MITF info for USFS

[backspin]

It's not the turns themselves or even the edges so much that are the problem, but the pattern....That's why I "flunked" pliminary when I tried it. I had one bad 3 turn (nerves), but I the big problem was my patterns were "off" (judge wrote something like that. Can't remember exact wording. Guess it has to be a certain spot on the rink or on the "circle" for the waltz 8.) I'll have to pay more attention this time.

Exactly!! Moves patterns are very precise & even down to which way your toes are pointing when the foot sets down (toward the boards/down ice/away from the boards etc). That's a lot of the stuff that the diagrams don't really tell you. Also the free leg position (while technically optional) usually has a "preferred" placement which you won't know about from reading the rulebook. Things like that.

I didn't know you'd tried one of the moves tests before. It must have been pre-pre then? Do you still have the judges' comments? We may be able to help interpret them for you!

[danceronice]

Lol, you won't flunk! I *fell* on Preliminary (MAN, was I po'd--there were three of us testing the same time, I was on the three-turns, the other two girls were doing crossovers and came pretty close and I scared myself) but I just got up, the judge had me reskate that pattern immediately, I finished the test and passed.

And pointy shoes are evil. That's how I got bunions.

[Skittl1321]

On my pre-bronze test I only did 1.5 circles of the forward figure 8, not 2. I had no idea until my coach told me before I started the next move (why he told me is a different matter.)

They just had me reskate, and I think the reskate is why I passed- watching the video my reskate looks like how I skated at that time. My test looks like someone without knees skating- I was so stiff.

I also touched down on the back inside edges once- I had never done that before, but I'm not sure the judge saw, she didn't comment.


(I've also heard stories of upper level tests passing when the skater ran into the wall during the end patterns. The judge who told the story joked that the test was clearly passing anyway and running into the wall shows power- because their pattern took up more than the whole rink.)

[Firefly123]

backspin,
Yes, when I first switched over a few years ago I took Pre-pliminary MITF and FS and passed. Then, I took the Preliminary MITF. I thought I did ok, only one step out on a 3 turn, but I think it was the pattern thing that flunked me. (Back then, I did have a coach who signed me in but, I only took a few lessons from her and, admittedly didn't pay much attention to what she said about pattern placement.....But she did warn me. My bad. )

No, unfortunately I didn't keep the sheets, but thanks for offering to help figure out what they're saying. ....It was something like "unacceptable placement of move" or "unacceptable pattern" or something like that....The coach said it was because I didn't do the turns on the right part of the waltz 8 and on one of the other items (power 3s?) I think I let the whole thing "drift" too far into the middle. (It has to go back out to the edge. The 3 turns were OK though. ...But not in the right place. Like you said, it is very percise. That was several (3?) years ago. I really must pay more attention this time. (Also they might not have liked that I took both tests together. I'm not saying this for sure, but the judges may have thought it was a little "cocky." Maybe. I'm not sure. ...But I am going to separate the tests by at least 2 months and take them at separate rinks this time.....Just in case. )

danceronice,
Yes, it was those cute little pointy shoes. I used to love those low cut little pointy boots with the spiked heels and the pointed toes. Remember them from the 1980s (if you're old like me). Back in "the day" (high school) we would all wear them with cute lacy socks and mini skirts (a la zz Top). Back then I thought I looked really cool. I can't imagine dressing like that now (even if I could stuff myself back into one of those little lacy minis.)
Anyways, I am paying for it now.

You are right about the bunions. Got those too. Also have a very nice pediatry surgeon whose children I will be putting through college.

[Firefly123]

Skittl,
For some reason, I did not get to reskate. (Maybe the flubby 3 turn where I put my free foot down was worse than I thought?)

Thanks for giving me hope.... With a wing and a prayer and the new lower average for Intermediate I just might get there.

[backspin]

backspin,
(Also they might not have liked that I took both tests together. I'm not saying this for sure, but the judges may have thought it was a little "cocky." Maybe. I'm not sure. ...But I am going to separate the tests by at least 2 months and take them at separate rinks this time.....Just in case. )

I can pretty much guarantee that wasn't the case. It's not uncommon for people to take a couple of low level tests the same day. Higher level not so common, mainly because it's just much more difficult to have that much test-ready at the same time.

Re. the no re-skate--since moves only gets one reskate, if the foot down on the turns would have been one, plus you had additional non-passing errors (like the 3 turn placement issues) you wouldn't have been asked to reskate because it wouldn't have put you up over the passing mark overall. They'll only ask for a reskate if that's the only thing that is keeping you from passing the test.

[Firefly123]

backspin,

I can pretty much guarantee that wasn't the case. It's not uncommon for people to take a couple of low level tests the same day. Higher level not so common, mainly because it's just much more difficult to have that much test-ready at the same time.

Thanks. That is good to know. I doubt I will do this on MITF again. As everyone has said, I really need to get some instruction on each test, practice the patterns (not just the turns) etc..... But for freestyle, it would be easier for me to just take it pretty much all together (or in 2 sessions) once I get all the MITF passed.

the no re-skate--since moves only gets one reskate, if the foot down on the turns would have been one, plus you had additional non-passing errors (like the 3 turn placement issues) you wouldn't have been asked to reskate because it wouldn't have put you up over the passing mark overall. They'll only ask for a reskate if that's the only thing that is keeping you from passing the test.

O.K., That makes sense then.

[gkelly]

backspin,
Yes, when I first switched over a few years ago I took Pre-pliminary MITF and FS and passed. Then, I took the Preliminary MITF.

Oh, well if you've already passed the prepreliminary MITF, you might want to consider sticking with the standard track. That way you'd only have to pass preliminary, prejuvenile, juvenile, and intermediate (4 tests) moves to get where you want to be.

If you do the adult track, you'd have to do prebronze, bronze, silver, gold, and intermediate (5 tests).

Would you want to avoid one more required test and having to test the same moves from pre-pre and intermediate on two different tests?

Are are there specific moves from the standard tests that might give you trouble? By testing as an adult you would avoid some altogether (alternating threes and forward edge spirals on preliminary, back power threes on juvenile) or take them on a test with a lower passing average (eight-step mohawks and cross strokes from juvenile).

No, unfortunately I didn't keep the sheets, but thanks for offering to help figure out what they're saying. ....It was something like "unacceptable placement of move" or "unacceptable pattern" or something like that....The coach said it was because I didn't do the turns on the right part of the waltz 8

The waltz eight is on the prepreliminary test, which you said you did pass.

and on one of the other items (power 3s?) I think I let the whole thing "drift" too far into the middle. (It has to go back out to the edge. The 3 turns were OK though. ...But not in the right place. Like you said, it is very percise.

That move is not just about being able to do forward three turns OK. It's also about generating power with the turns, the crossover lobes, and the wide step between the lobes, and controlling the back inside edges and the pattern as a whole. So yeah, it takes more than just looking at the pattern in the book and vaguely approximating it on the ice. Then it depends how picky your judges are about the finer points of the pattern.

But you're only allowed to reskate one move. So if one of them had an incorrect pattern and another had a touchdown, the only way the test could pass would be if the remaining moves were far above the passing standard and then they gave you a reskate on one of the ones that wasn't.

[Firefly123]

Oh, maybe it wasn't the waltz 8. I thought it was something in a circle pattern????

I had planned to try to stick with adult tract and then cross over to Intermediate with the new passing average. It does add another test, but I just feel better about it being the adult tract. (Probably just a psychological thing.)

[Debbie S]

(I've also heard stories of upper level tests passing when the skater ran into the wall during the end patterns. The judge who told the story joked that the test was clearly passing anyway and running into the wall shows power- because their pattern took up more than the whole rink.)

LOL! When I tested Pre-Juv, I almost ran into the wall on the second end pattern of the forward perimeter stroking. I didn't actually touch the wall, but I did have to disrupt the crossover I was doing to make sure my free leg didn't hit the wall when I pushed outward (I basically just picked my foot up and stepped straight over my skating foot). 2 judges passed the move (both noted the near-miss) and 1 judge didn't - basically, their comments were all the same, but I guess some judges have a higher tolerance than others for near-misses, if the rest of the move is good.

Re. the no re-skate--since moves only gets one reskate, if the foot down on the turns would have been one, plus you had additional non-passing errors (like the 3 turn placement issues) you wouldn't have been asked to reskate because it wouldn't have put you up over the passing mark overall. They'll only ask for a reskate if that's the only thing that is keeping you from passing the test.

Yes, you basically have to be within 0.1 of passing. There are serious/fatal errors, like putting your foot down on a turn, falling, or not doing the correct pattern, that are automatic failure unless corrected in a reskate. Quality errors, such as skidding your turns, maybe doing 1 or 2 turns 'early' or 'late', or insufficient power or extension on a move, will cause the move to be marked below passing but don't automatically result in failure if you have another move (or 2) that were very good and can be marked above the passing level to put you at the passing total. You could be asked for a reskate to correct a quality error, if that would make the difference between passing and failing.

When I tested Prelim, I put my foot down on 1 of the FO alt 3's (which I never do in practice, I was like WTF) and got asked for a reskate at the end. I had no other mistakes and had done the other moves at a passing level. I reskated clean, and passed the test. I've had a couple other tests where I thought I might get a reskate - these are the ones where the judges have a conversation at the end. But I didn't, b/c it was obvious after looking at my papers that only 1 judge wanted to see the reskate - I think at least 2 judges have to agree. Generally, if the judges don't need to see anything again, they just look at the judge-in-charge and quickly nod their heads, and dismiss you off the ice as soon as you get back to your coach, lol.

Firefly, I highly recommend that if you want to pass the moves, you take lessons and listen to your coach. Pay attention to what they tell you about pattern placement and the lines/axes on the ice and understand what it all means - some of the terms you are using are incorrect. As backspin said, I doubt the judges thought you were "cocky" by taking 2 tests in the same session, but they probably didn't like how you disregarded the way the moves should be done. Skating is a tradition-minded sport with tradition-minded judges. If you want to advance in USFSA testing, you need to start following directions.

[Firefly123]

Yes, I guess that is the only way to pass the tests. I was kind of hoping to just skate ISI which has a um..."not so ridgid"...test structure. But, living in NY, there aren't too may ISI competitions around here. (It looks like it is much more active in the Midwest and South.) I did like the social aspects of the competitions (meeting new friends) when I was a teen (actually, a lot better than I liked the actual skating part.) It's kind of hard to see the other adult skaters at the rinks I practice at go off to competitons/nats etc. and I get left behind because I didn't take the tests.

I guess it has really started bothing me lately because I put together a really nice routine for the ISI Platinum. (Granted, I'm not thrilled about "dancing" the part of the crazy clown...but that's another issue. ) The routine, iteself is....good. I think it would have done really well at Adult Nats but, of course, I'll never know because I can't skate because I don't test. Yup, it bothers me.

Also, as a few posters pointed out. It's great to have an opinion, but if I'm not "part of you" (not even a USFS member, much less a "known" skater), then I've got no "street cred" so to speak. Even if I was, I doubt anyone would agree with me on certiain um...opinions...but at least I would have a bit more credibility......Maybe......

So, I did test ISI and earned the right to skate in their competitions. Now I have to do the same with USFS. On a personal level I don't like the idea that skaters have to "earn" this right (they don't on roller)....But that is how it is on ice, (at least for now). So I can choose to test or not. Like I said....it's been bugging me lately.... Right now, I have a really great routine that few (if any) people are going to ever see. Of course, I guess I could video it and put it up on youtube, but it's not the same and getting cute stuffed animals thrown and applause.

[timing]

You definitely want to work with a coach as others have said to be sure the moves you are doing match what the judges are expecting. At her coach's recommendation we got my daughter a copy of the PSA Moves in the Field Book when she started testing. It not only shows the patterns it also discusses the expectations and the common errors for each pattern. She found it quite helpful. The 5th edition of this contains the new patterns which become effective on Sept 2, 2010.

[Firefly123]

I am planning to sign up for an Individual USFS Membership in July. It says that I will recieve a U.S. Figure Skating Rulebook. Is that the same thing?

[danceronice]

If it's the same as when I joined it should include the patterns and a description of the standards...a PSA book is probably more detailed as that would be meant for coaches.

[Firefly123]

Oh...I see. So that's like the coaches' reference which would have more info in it. Cool.

Yes, that sounds like a really good investment!!! (Especially since I only want to take the fewest number of actual lessons possible in order to pass each test.) I will definitely get one! Thanks!!

[timing]

They are not the same thing. The rulebook has the diagrams and a description but not the descriptions of common errors and expectations.

[Firefly123]

Did you get this book off the official USFS website? I'll definitely get a copy.

[Firefly123]

Update. I did manage to find this book on the PSA website. Do you know if I need to be a coach to order it?

[timing]

Someone else got them. I just paid.

I did a google search and found that they are available from PSA online store and some other sites. The fourth edition is $10 and the fifth edition is $15 in the PSA online store. It looks like there is small extra charge for non PSA members.

[Firefly123]

Excellent!! Will definitely get one. Thanks for letting me know about it!!