You are forgetting USFS's ultimate goal for Skate America is always to sell those tickets and make the event as much a success as possible. That's the way the event has been handled for years. The experience for the 2nd tier skaters is always a plus but if they have to chose between "never in Seniors before" Maxwell or Musademba and "Former National and World Champion" Kimmie Meissner, Im pretty sure who will be their choice.
Originally Posted by haribobo
You got a good point, but I really think the sooner Angela Maxwell is delivered to the public, the better off for everyone involved (provided she's in good shape, of course). She may not sell more tickets than Kimmie right now, but for sure she has more potential and is more exciting than basically all other ladies. When you have a skater as fantastic as Angela, you don't keep her hiding. I'm counting on USFS not to pull a move. I also feel more strongly about Kristine Musademba and Melissa Bulanhagui at this point than Kimmie, so I hope to see good summer and fall results for these ladies and then assignments to whomever does best.
Originally Posted by SamuraiK
Seriously, when is the last time Kimmie did a 3-3 or even competed at all for that matter? The only way I want to see her on the GP this year is if she proves herself in a major way over the summer, or a bunch of ladies sit out next season and Kimmie is one of the only options left....otherwise, Regionals and Sectionals for her please. Super nice girl, but fair is fair. Come on now.
Last edited by haribobo; 03-31-2010 at 11:48 PM.
To be honest, I don't have a good feeling about the chances of Kimmie, Angela or Musademba right now. Girls in the US don't make comebacks the way the Japanese girls do. I wish, for the sake of USFS female skater development, it had been different.
For every Joelle Forte there're 50 Christina Gaos.
What is that supposed to mean? Gao has great technique...her 3/3 and 3flip are among the best in the world. With Orser in her corner, I think she'll be just fine.
Originally Posted by jlai
I think jlai just meant that for every US 18+ lady trying to make a rise/ comeback, there are 5 or 10 younger girls coming up the ranks who are just as good or better that will make that "comeback girl" not able to reach the top again. Which is often true, but then then as an eternal optomist, I always hold out hope for my favorites to make their mark before they get cast aside. Sure, the momentum is with Gao and Zawadzki at this time....but then a few years ago the momentum was with Kimmie, Katy Taylor, Bebe Liang, and more recently Deedee Leng and Ellie Kawamura. Things change years to years in this sport, and a skater who survives puberty in tact is often the most serious contendor of all.....
Thanks, haribobo. That's exactly what I meant.
That said, for US to be as successful as Japan, US can't just rely on teenage phenoms any more, esp. now that girls won't be able to peak at 15/16 and snatch gold at worlds or Olympics ala Lipinski/Hughes.
US has to develop girls who can surive puberty to some extent, and it does help to have some strong twenty somethings like Japan's Akiko Suzuki or Nakano. I think USFSA meant well when they promoted Czisny last year to pursue that effort, but alas, you can't buck the Forte vs. Gao trend.
Last edited by jlai; 04-01-2010 at 03:10 AM.
I've copied the first 2 quoted posts below from the Russian up and coming ladies thread in the Trash Can:
Originally Posted by Jenna
Kulgeyko showed 2 different triples in Nationals (toe and sal) and had a popped flip in her FS (planned triple attempt?). Gracie Gold landed two 3Lz and a 3F in her Novice FS and I will be interested to see how she monitors this summer.
Originally Posted by oleada
It's been discussed already, but having a consistent 3Lo may be a factor in selection because 2 or 3Lo is the required solo jump from steps in the Junior SP in 2010-11. Both Siraj and Jiang attempted 3Lo as Novices at Gardena Spring Trophy earlier this month (Jiang landed it as her combo in the Novice SP there).
Originally Posted by oleada
Last edited by Sylvia; 04-18-2010 at 09:18 PM.
Men, I don't know who's retiring so I won't try to figure it out.
SGP: Flatt (2), Nagasu (2), Wagner (2), Gao (2), Dobbs (2), Zhang (2)
Gilles (1), Czisny (1), Liang (1), Hughes/Meissner if they compete (1)
^^ depending on space, I wouldn't be surprised if Gilles and Czinsy each got 2 spots. Also Liang might not get any, but she did do well at nationals so they might still give her one.
Senior Bs: Czisny, Gilles, Liang, Zawadzki
JGP: Zawadzki (2), Baga (2), Siraj (2), Davis (2), Cesario (2), Jiang (2),Gong (1), Wang (1)
Regionals and Sectionals: Musademba, Maxwell, Kawamura
The first two where they withdrew and Ellie where she did so poorly at nationals. But all three did well on the JGP this season so they might get international assignments, senior Bs maybe?
As already pointed out, Czisny is almost guaranteed to be assigned to the SGP should she stick around next season. Her ISU World Ranking is safely within the top 24, and her SB score is in the top 75, too. I can't see her not getting assigned a GP event and being relegated to a Senior B event only.
Originally Posted by pinky166
ETA: Sorry, pinky! I missed that in your original post.
Last edited by chipso1; 04-19-2010 at 05:02 AM.
If Zawadzki is assigned to the JGP, she is not likely get a Senior B as well (Liang, Hughes, Bulanhagui and/or anyone with 1 GP or none may be considered). Last year, 4 U.S. ladies, 6 men, 3 pairs, and 4 dance teams ended up with Senior B assignments.
Last edited by Sylvia; 04-19-2010 at 04:20 AM.
I know, that's why I said she will definitely get 1 SGP assignment and possibly 2. Alissa normally gets senior B assignments as well because they help with her confidence and nerves, so I predict that if she continues she will get either 1 SGP assignment and 1 Senior B assignment or 2 SGP assignments. She'll definitely get a SGP assignment, the question is just whether 1 assignment or 2.
Originally Posted by chipso1
I was more thinking if Agnes doesn't do the JGP, she might do a senior B and get 1 SGP assignment.
Originally Posted by Sylvia
Czisny received a Senior B assignment this past season because USFS reportedly asked all the Grand Prix skaters if they wanted an extra comp. before their GP events and, as the 2009 national champ, she got first dibs on Nebelhorn. The year before, she was assigned to Nebelhorn because she had received 1 GP in the initial selection round (she ended up getting a 2nd one at the last minute).
Originally Posted by pinky166
She's currently the two-time champion of the Nebelhorn Trophy. No lady has ever won three Nebelhorns, so she may be interested in going again.
Originally Posted by Sylvia
i have been doing a rough draft with everyone in from last year for women
guaranteed two is---mirai and rachel, probably two is ashley, carolina zhang , alissa- definitely 1--is agnes zawadki-could get two; christina gao- might get two depends on how; where assigned, and definitely 1 is amanda dobbs.
possible 1 for alexe gilles
it depends on who stays in which skaters from other countries stay junior or jumps up to senior-so it is possible that only mirai and rachel gets two and ashley carolina alissa agnes amanda and christina gao gets one.
the men i worked out i don't remember who.
but i went by 24 at worlds, top 24 scores and top 24 world rankings .
i didn't go by nationals at all.
I think with Caroline's 4CC medal and Ashley making the GPF - they will each get 2. Alissa and Amanda I don't think definitely will only get 1 - they could get 2 but it just depends on numbers, though if they do only get 1 I think each would also get a senior B assignment.
Originally Posted by query5
Agnes I think will do JGP, Christina might even do JGP again though I assume will move to seniors. If she does SGP I think she will get 2 because of her medal at the JGPF - I think she would get 2 assignments before Amanda or Alissa. She has one gauranteed and USFSA could give her SA if she doesn't get invited to another event.
Russians I think only Makarova and Shelepen will move to seniors. Gerdboldt is doing pairs, Gozeva won't get an assignment if Shelepen moves up. Agafonova, Ovcharova, Birukova I assume will do JGP again as they are so young.
Also if Rachael is in college full-time will she even be competing?
Kimmie is a question mark and the last time she competed she was doing very poorly - I agree the USFSA should give a SA assignment to Angela Maxwell over Kimmie. Angela is an incredible talent and is young with lots of potential. Plus she's so spunky and energetic she is sure to be a crowd pleaser.
Maxwell and Musademba have already done three seasons on the JGP. I'd rather see them in senior Bs and agree that Maxwell would be a great pick for Skate America.
Musademba has managed to have a very uneven three seasons, and I'm not sure that she ought to get even a Senior B this year -- she needs to buckle down and do well at the qualifying events and go into Nationals healthy and well-prepared. It does seem quite wrong to even consider putting her on the JGP circuit again given all of the other skaters and the limited number of JGP spots. She had her chances, and lots of them, and for a variety of reasons couldn't capitalize on them.
Speaking of Angela Maxwell, I believe it was reported around nationals that she had left her then coach Craig Maurizi. Who is her new coach? Is she still training in Hackensack?
While I more or less agree with your point, barbk, I'd say that Musademba has done fairly well for herself over the past 3 years- only 5 or 6 US ladies have a better track record. She's made several JGPFs and shown lots of promise...but her success trajectory has kind of stayed on the same medium level, not unlike what's happened to Bereswill and Gilles. I actually think Kristine has more potential than either of them but didn't move up to senior GP so we didnt see where she fit in there and then the injury destroyed her season. Angela Maxwell and Kristine are caught in limbo a bit at the moment and they'll have to get a lucky break or two to get on the GP and back into the mix. I'll be rooting for them- should be interesting to see what develops! With the right set of circumstances, either of them could hit top 5 at Nationals, but it will be a bit of an uphill climb.