Page 4 of 24 FirstFirst ... 2345614 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 80 of 471

Thread: Rachael's plans

  1. #61
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    2,468
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Costuming could help much with Rachael's "look". I saw her in a black practice costume and the skirt was cut in such a way that it lengthened her look, especially the legs. If next year were an Olympic year, I could see her staying, but with her other gifts, I don't believe she would want her career plans put on hold for four more years on the outside chance that she might make a world or Olympic podium.

    Re Lepisto: her team is very savy. She does one of the less difficult 3/3's and nails it almost every time, maybe every time, getting full points for her. Others try more difficult ones and quite frequently leave points on the ice. There is nothing wrong in realizing your limitations and using that to your advantage in competition. I have always liked Laura. I love the beautiful simplicity of her skating. There is no need to try to hide anything with the showiness some skaters use to do that.

  2. #62
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Two-foot skating = BAD
    Posts
    20,464
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Louis View Post
    Consistency counts for nothing when you have to be perfect to get even a semi-decent place. Rachael cannot afford even the slightest mistake or reduction in content to stay even top six. She is not a "big GOE" skater, and it's not going to be easy for her to become one.

    She skated perfect Olympic programs and ended up 7th. At Worlds, ninth with only one real mistake over both programs. Anyone else with that content in either event would have been on the podium for sure. That's very telling in how the judges perceive her skating overall.

    I've been trying to decide for a couple of years if Rachael was a Sarah Hughes in the making or a Tonia Kwiatkowski in the making. This seals the deal for me; she's a Tonia, the nice, smart girl who can be sent to Worlds if there are no better options, but the girl who's never going to win a medal and will be passed over in a second if a skater with a real chance comes along.

    I like Rachael's skating but don't see much hope in continuing for any reason other than sheer love of the sport.
    You've hit the nail on the head here.

    There are so many things wrong with her skating, you don't even know to begin.

    Sure she could work on improving them but with that much of a focus on her academics...

  3. #63
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    1,983
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by euterpe View Post

    OTOH, can Laura continue to place high with just a 50% success rate on 3Z, no 3F, and a recurring tendency to double her jumps in the second half of the program? I still believe she has inherited the Kostner factor (being the top European), and that keeps her in high esteem with the judges who are mostly European. But in a tough competition where the top skaters all perform well (close to or at their best), I'm not sure Laura can maintain a top 3 rating with her limited jumping skills.

    Well, the judges obviously love Laura *cough* Bronze at Worlds *cough*...

    But anyway, it annoys me greatly that someone of Laura's caliber can get on the podium that easily without much technical difficulty. Sure she has great basics and speed and some musicality, but everyone knows that figure skating is primarily a jump competition. I mean her long program at World's this year was double city. And I'd wish she'd fix her ugly wind-milly arms!!!

  4. #64

    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    6,065
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    5116
    Quote Originally Posted by smarts1 View Post
    But anyway, it annoys me greatly that someone of Laura's caliber can get on the podium that easily without much technical difficulty. Sure she has great basics and speed and some musicality, but everyone knows that figure skating is primarily a jump competition. I mean her long program at World's this year was double city. And I'd wish she'd fix her ugly wind-milly arms!!!
    Well, Laura didn't get top 3 in FS - she was 6th. And she did land a (clean) 3-3 before she started doubling jumps.

    When Rachael was younger (Novice, Junior) she had much more spark to her skating. For the most part, since she moved up to Seniors she's been skating the dreariest programs. I feel like her coaches decided to make her look more 'Senior' by taking away her personality and having her look all-business. I wish some of her earlier self would come back - I saw traces of that in her SP this year, so it's there somewhere.

  5. #65

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    FSU Witness Protection Program
    Age
    26
    Posts
    28,062
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    33872
    It's not Laura's fault that Miki bombed her SP, or that Nagasu didn't skate a clean LP or that Cynthia didn't get her levels or that Makarova's program layout was at her disadvantage. It was theirs for the taking and they didn't.

  6. #66
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    10,234
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by euterpe View Post
    Christina ALREADY has a better jump arsenal than Lepisto (all the triples except 3A), and as you say, she is only 16 to Laura's 22. The rest will come---so far, she's had international experience only at the junior level, and less than a year at that. Laura has seven full years of international competition: four at the junior level, and three at the senior level, including 3 Worlds and Europeans, and one Olympics. I think by the time Christina has had as much experience as Laura, she will be a far more accomplished skater than she is now.

    OTOH, can Laura continue to place high with just a 50% success rate on 3Z, no 3F, and a recurring tendency to double her jumps in the second half of the program? I still believe she has inherited the Kostner factor (being the top European), and that keeps her in high esteem with the judges who are mostly European. But in a tough competition where the top skaters all perform well (close to or at their best), I'm not sure Laura can maintain a top 3 rating with her limited jumping skills.
    Mhm. I wonder why Laura never considered doing pairs considering her jump content. Anyways, Christina IMO has much more potential than Rachael ever had. I also think Rachael was at her best two years ago when she won Junior Worlds before she started get boring programs that didn't suit her. I think for Rachael, her jumps are what makes her stand out. Without the consistent jumps, she's pretty average. And it seems like this season her jumps are abandoning her a little bit considering her problems with her 3f-3t and downgrades on the 3f. Her consistency is also questionable, she had two off competitions this season (CoC and Worlds). Granted that's not a lot, but she wasn't spot on at all her competitions. Also, where Mirai and Christina are doing 3-3 now too, that could help close in the gap.

  7. #67
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    4,890
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by oleada View Post
    It's not Laura's fault that Miki bombed her SP, or that Nagasu didn't skate a clean LP or that Cynthia didn't get her levels or that Makarova's program layout was at her disadvantage. It was theirs for the taking and they didn't.
    all true.

    But what you left out was a FS fan's need to bitch and moan, coupled with their selective memory on how both SP and LP count.

    When Czisny's strong SP insured her the 09 nats win despite a 3 triple LP, everyone cried "Flatt wuz robbed!" but no sooner did Flatt get her title in 10, for almost the same exact skating as in 09, then it was all "Nagasu wuz robbed" despite all the URs.

  8. #68

    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Minnesota
    Age
    26
    Posts
    9,000
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    1017
    Quote Originally Posted by Debbie S View Post
    Well, Laura didn't get top 3 in FS - she was 6th. And she did land a (clean) 3-3 before she started doubling jumps.

    When Rachael was younger (Novice, Junior) she had much more spark to her skating. For the most part, since she moved up to Seniors she's been skating the dreariest programs. I feel like her coaches decided to make her look more 'Senior' by taking away her personality and having her look all-business. I wish some of her earlier self would come back - I saw traces of that in her SP this year, so it's there somewhere.
    I would love to see Rachael resurrect her "An American in Paris" free skate from 2006-07. It would highlight her great personality and playful side, but she would also be able to present a more mature character during the slower sections.

  9. #69
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    10,234
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by berthesghost View Post
    all true.

    But what you left out was a FS fan's need to bitch and moan, coupled with their selective memory on how both SP and LP count.

    When Czisny's strong SP insured her the 09 nats win despite a 3 triple LP, everyone cried "Flatt wuz robbed!" but no sooner did Flatt get her title in 10, for almost the same exact skating as in 09, then it was all "Nagasu wuz robbed" despite all the URs.
    There was a big difference. Mirai's LP at this years nationals appeared flawless to the blind eye, although 3 jumps were downgraded she executed a 6 triple FS with no falls, step outs, or bobbles. Alissa actually only did 3 triples in her LP last year, doubling two other jumps and falling on her second lutz, so clearly that is not a performance worthy of the national title. Then when she went to Worlds and finished 11th while Rachael was 5th I think everyone realized Rachael was the better skater. And then this year the USFSA finally caught on that Alissa can't compete with the best in the World so they gave her the scores she deserved and she finished 10th.

  10. #70
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Hong Kong
    Posts
    11,176
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Louis View Post
    Consistency counts for nothing when you have to be perfect to get even a semi-decent place. Rachael cannot afford even the slightest mistake or reduction in content to stay even top six. She is not a "big GOE" skater, and it's not going to be easy for her to become one.

    She skated perfect Olympic programs and ended up 7th. At Worlds, ninth with only one real mistake over both programs. Anyone else with that content in either event would have been on the podium for sure. That's very telling in how the judges perceive her skating overall.

    I've been trying to decide for a couple of years if Rachael was a Sarah Hughes in the making or a Tonia Kwiatkowski in the making. This seals the deal for me; she's a Tonia, the nice, smart girl who can be sent to Worlds if there are no better options, but the girl who's never going to win a medal and will be passed over in a second if a skater with a real chance comes along.

    I like Rachael's skating but don't see much hope in continuing for any reason other than sheer love of the sport.
    I have been saying this all season but somehow got labelled a hater. Am glad I am finally vindicated by her results at the Olympics and Worlds. To those who thought she was solid as a rock and was all that US could depend on - she was the lower placing lady at both the Olympics and Worlds.

    As much as USFS made a wrong decision to send Czisny last year, IMO they made a worse decision to pump up Flatt at Nationals and send her instead of Wagner. International judges never liked Flatt and never will. The strategising by USFS was just all over the place when they stuck with not crowning her in the previous years but suddenly felt desperate about it at Nationals this season. Wagner would much more likely be in the mix between 3rd and 7th at Worlds and perhaps regain that 3rd spot for Zawadzki or Gao (or herself) for next year.

  11. #71

    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Minnesota
    Age
    26
    Posts
    9,000
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    1017
    I'm not sure Wagner would have been that much more of a "sure thing" to place well at Olys/Worlds than Flatt. Ashley hasn't broken 60 points in the short program internationally this season, and her best FS score is ~108. Flatt got pretty much the same thing for her terrible (by her standards) programs at Worlds. IMO, they're both pretty much at the same level, but Flatt is less likely to make mistakes. Ashley couldn't handle the pressure of Nationals in the short program this year...how would she have dealt with the Olympic pressure?

  12. #72
    Internet Beyotch
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    NorCal
    Posts
    15,813
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    23556
    Quote Originally Posted by pinky166 View Post
    Rachael should do whatever she wants, but at this point I do see her as being similar to an Emily, Bebe, or Alissa - all of whom didn't have it in them to make it internationally on a regular basis.
    I find these sorts of comments mystifying. Flatt *already* has a better record than all 3 of those skaters IMO. She's been to the Olympics (unlike Liang and Czisny), she's World Jr. Champion (none of them have done that), won the US Championships at the Novice and Senior level (Czisny only did that as a Senior, the rest haven't done it at any level). She's made the Jr. GPF (none of the others have). Her record at Worlds (Sr) is better too. None of the others has placed as high as 5th. So she didn't do so well at Worlds this year... that's one performance. You can't base someone's entire International career on one performance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Debbie S View Post
    When Rachael was younger (Novice, Junior) she had much more spark to her skating. For the most part, since she moved up to Seniors she's been skating the dreariest programs. I feel like her coaches decided to make her look more 'Senior' by taking away her personality and having her look all-business. I wish some of her earlier self would come back - I saw traces of that in her SP this year, so it's there somewhere.
    I completely agree with this. Free Flatt!
    Actual bumper sticker series: Jesus is my co-pilot. Satan is my financial advisor. Budha is my therapist. L. Ron Hubbard owes me $50.

  13. #73

    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    6,065
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    5116
    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Wagner would much more likely be in the mix between 3rd and 7th at Worlds and perhaps regain that 3rd spot for Zawadzki or Gao (or herself) for next year.
    If Wagner hadn't fallen in the SP, she would have gone to the Olys and Worlds (instead of Nagasu). I like Wagner, but she didn't earn a spot. Flatt and Nagasu did.

  14. #74
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    10,234
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by MacMadame View Post
    I find these sorts of comments mystifying. Flatt *already* has a better record than all 3 of those skaters IMO. She's been to the Olympics (unlike Liang and Czisny), she's World Jr. Champion (none of them have done that), won the US Championships at the Novice and Senior level (Czisny only did that as a Senior, the rest haven't done it at any level). She's made the Jr. GPF (none of the others have). Her record at Worlds (Sr) is better too. None of the others has placed as high as 5th. So she didn't do so well at Worlds this year... that's one performance. You can't base someone's entire International career on one performance.
    Fair point. I actually think she's better than Liang and Czisny, I never really got why people pumped those two up to be so great. If only they were clean they would be unbeatable! But for one thing, those two are never clean, and for another, even if they were clean they wouldn't be unbeatable because they don't get great PCS and don't have 3-3. The comparison I more meant in terms of that they both showed a lot of potential around age 17/18 and then never really broke through and got much better, and arguably got worse. I'm afraid that could happen to Rachael but there's also the chance she could improve if she continues so who knows.

    Ashley at her best I think is better than Rachael but she also has consistency issues and problems with URs. Ashley went to Worlds in 2008 remember, and she finished 16th. 9th isn't awesome but it's a lot better than 16th. I do think where Rachael and Mirai were so tired though an argument could have been made to send Ashley, but the international judges don't seem to love her either, and she got a lot of URs for her flip and double axel this season so it's a toss up.

  15. #75

    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    7,390
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    4361
    Matt Savoie was not all that successful in competition. I recall an interview with Paul Wylie when Michelle Kwan was trying to combine skating with college, and, he said that doing so would be much more difficult for her than it was for him due to changes in the skating load (GP assignments, etc.) Maybe, those changes affected Matt Savoie, also.

    If Rachael is thinking of trying to combine college and competition, I think she should have a talk with Michelle Kwan, if possible, or Matt. Michelle would be preferable, since she attended two of the three schools that have accepted Rachael.

  16. #76
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Hong Kong
    Posts
    11,176
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by chipso1 View Post
    I'm not sure Wagner would have been that much more of a "sure thing" to place well at Olys/Worlds than Flatt. Ashley hasn't broken 60 points in the short program internationally this season, and her best FS score is ~108. Flatt got pretty much the same thing for her terrible (by her standards) programs at Worlds. IMO, they're both pretty much at the same level, but Flatt is less likely to make mistakes. Ashley couldn't handle the pressure of Nationals in the short program this year...how would she have dealt with the Olympic pressure?
    Not saying she is a sure thing. Nothing is a sure thing.

    But Wagner was getting less downgrades as the season went on whereas Flatt was getting more. Looks like Wagner was more timed to peak at the Olympics and Worlds whereas Flatt already peaked at Nationals.

  17. #77

    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    17,017
    vCash
    1561
    Rep Power
    4990
    But Wagner was getting less downgrades as the season went on whereas Flatt was getting more. Looks like Wagner was more timed to peak at the Olympics and Worlds whereas Flatt already peaked at Nationals.
    That's not true. Rachael didn't start getting downgrades until the Olympics.

  18. #78

    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Posts
    7,595
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    1913
    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    But Wagner was getting less downgrades as the season went on whereas Flatt was getting more. Looks like Wagner was more timed to peak at the Olympics and Worlds whereas Flatt already peaked at Nationals.

    Hindsight is 20/20 in regards to Flatt, but who's to say that Wagner was timed to peak at the Olympics and Worlds? You could argue she peaked during the GP series and her downward spiral was only beginning at Nationals. It is impossible to know one way or another because Wagner (not the USFS) took herself out of contention by once again falling in the short at Nationals, thus ending her senior season.

    I'm not a fan of Flatt's skating by an stretch of the imagination, but IMO the podium was correct based on how each skater skated at Nationals.

  19. #79
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Age
    23
    Posts
    13,208
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by chipso1 View Post
    I'm not sure Wagner would have been that much more of a "sure thing" to place well at Olys/Worlds than Flatt. Ashley hasn't broken 60 points in the short program internationally this season, and her best FS score is ~108. Flatt got pretty much the same thing for her terrible (by her standards) programs at Worlds. IMO, they're both pretty much at the same level, but Flatt is less likely to make mistakes. Ashley couldn't handle the pressure of Nationals in the short program this year...how would she have dealt with the Olympic pressure?
    I agree. I like Wagner but I actually dont think it is likely at all she would have placed highly in Vancouver. She has placed well this year capatilizing on others mistakes and also skating in weakened fields, placing 4th at the Grand Prix final with a total barely over 160 doesnt say much. Since it is clear by the Grand Prix final even that it would be a real stretch for her to even beat a decent Suzuki the best she probably would have placed in Vancouver even skating reasonably (I have never seen her skate totally clean) would be 9th or lower.

    Worlds was weaker and her chances to place well would be better, but then again if she was well placed after the short to vye for a strong result would she even hold it together in the long, or would she have held it together in the short to begin with.

  20. #80
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Hong Kong
    Posts
    11,176
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayra View Post
    Hindsight is 20/20 in regards to Flatt
    I have been saying the same even before Nationals and IIRC even before the season started, that Flatt would be a wrong choice for a US champion leading into the Olympics or even a wrong choice to go to the Olympics no matter how solid she seeme/ was. I don't wuzrob her placement at Nationals but I would have placed her 3rd at best myself. I guess given her practices and her consistency up to that point, including beating Kim at the lp of Skate America, USFS took the short-sighted view of promoting her finally (after giving her crap in the past 2 seasons).

    but who's to say that Wagner was timed to peak at the Olympics and Worlds? You could argue she peaked during the GP series and her downward spiral was only beginning at Nationals.
    Sure - we will never know. Just like we would never know if the US would regain its 3rd spot if they had sent Zhang instead of Czisny to Worlds in LA. Didn't stop the whole board going berserk over it.

    It's true however that Wagner's lp outings had become progressively stronger with each competition up til Nationals. I suppose you can say the same about Flatt as well. Just IMO Wagner had a lot more to rely on even if the jumps didn't work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Debbie S View Post
    If Wagner hadn't fallen in the SP, she would have gone to the Olys and Worlds (instead of Nagasu). I like Wagner, but she didn't earn a spot. Flatt and Nagasu did.
    I don't doubt for a second that if Wagner was ahead of Flatt before Nagasu skated, Nagasu would have been a 2 time US Champion. They were going to take a shot at Nagasu either way if she went clean because her jumps were strong and rotated at practice all week and she could score big internationally (unlike Flatt).

    If the team was going to be Nagasu and Flatt, Flatt would get the title because she was placed better internationally and was a bigger medal hope. If the team was going to be Nagasu and Wagner, Nagasu would get the title because of her bigger scoring potential. I think the USFS is kicking themselves for not crowning Nagasu at Nationals - could have been the difference between 4th and bronze in Vancouver.
    Last edited by Marco; 03-29-2010 at 10:16 AM.

Page 4 of 24 FirstFirst ... 2345614 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •