What does Caroline Zhang need to do to work her way back up to the podium?

[Anita18]

Hypothetically speaking, maybe her parents are footing the bills for her national level until she gets into a prestigious university? You can sell yourself much better to Stanford or Harvard if you are a nationally ranked skater than a burn-out. Is she entering her junior or senior year of HS?

You don't have to spend that much money to get into a prestigious university! My sister (who graduated from Stanford two years ago) likes to brag how my parents didn't even need to spend money on SAT prep courses. All you need is intelligence and passion. To get into elite private colleges, it's vastly preferable to be truly passionate about something but not nationally ranked, than to be really good at something but hate it. You can't fake this mindset - that's what the interviews and personal essays are for. When I find out that someone is from Stanford, I'm always like, "Oh, that makes so much sense!" because they're always like my sister in their effortless intelligence and drive.

I think it's still a common belief (especially among Asian parents) that all you need is good stats to get into prestigious private colleges. Unfortunately, figure skating is not a lucrative NCAA sport so she wouldn't get any favors from their athletic departments if her academics weren't up to snuff.

[Triple Butz]

You don't have to spend that much money to get into a prestigious university! My sister (who graduated from Stanford two years ago) likes to brag how my parents didn't even need to spend money on SAT prep courses. All you need is intelligence and passion. To get into elite private colleges, it's vastly preferable to be truly passionate about something but not nationally ranked, than to be really good at something but hate it. You can't fake this mindset - that's what the interviews and personal essays are for. When I find out that someone is from Stanford, I'm always like, "Oh, that makes so much sense!" because they're always like my sister in their effortless intelligence and drive.

I think it's still a common belief (especially among Asian parents) that all you need is good stats to get into prestigious private colleges. Unfortunately, figure skating is not a lucrative NCAA sport so she wouldn't get any favors from their athletic departments if her academics weren't up to snuff.

ITA. I got a Masters from Yale, grew up on welfare, and never even TOOK the SAT.

[tangerine_dream]

So should I interpret this as she's being forced to skate (or to practice) by her mother?

If so, she is done. I can relate in a way to this. If you don't enjoy what you're doing, you will never get better. You have to WANT to be good in order to be willing to put in the effort because talent only gets you so far.

It wouldn't be fair for me to say "YES, this is what happens".

It's just what I and many other people think/have thought upon watching the way she practices and interacts with her mom and the rest of her team. Only Caroline knows how she feels about it.

She sure doesn't *act* like she enjoys it is all I'm getting at. I think there are times she enjoys competition when she does well (as I've gathered from a few interviews), but who doesn't enjoy being patted on the back and told they're awesome? You have to like the every day of it for you to stand a chance. I don't think she does, and I think that is largely to blame in regards to why she has never reworked her wonky jump technique.

But again, I'm not her and can only speak my opinions. Just something to add to the mix of the other ones present here.

[jjane45]

From prior tweets and a few exchange of words Caroline seems to love getting on the ice, she is actually known for working herself a little too hard.
I am more curious if there will be coaching changes any time soon...

[RD]

Oh sigh. The proof is in the pudding I suppose...

[Polymer Bob]

I don't get the impression Caroline doesn't want to skate. My impression is that something hindered her skating this season, and she hates skating poorly. She seems to enjoy skating well. Even if you check out the video of her exhibition at 4CC, which was her last public skate, she seemed to be enjoying herself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuambNXJ_JM ( There is a typo in the title. )

And she seemed genuinely happy on the podium.

http://www.zimbio.com/pictures/oyoib...Caroline+Zhang

[tangerine_dream]

I didn't say she doesn't enjoy the "fun" part of skating such as exhibitions and being on the podium, I said I don't get the impression she enjoys the daily grind of skating training which makes for difficulties when it comes to improvements.

I think you have to want to be there every day if you are going to improve. If someone is making you get on the ice, whether it is a parent or your coach, it's just not going to work out in the long run. My own opinion.

With that said I think she's nice to watch, wonky jumps aside.

[Sylvia]

Latest hearsay information: Caroline is in Colorado Springs reportedly working with Tom Dickson. He choreographed her Spanish Gypsy SP a few years ago, and so this sounds like a positive development to me.

[olympic]

Latest hearsay information: Caroline is in Colorado Springs reportedly working with Tom Dickson. He choreographed her Spanish Gypsy SP a few years ago, and so this sounds like a positive development to me.

Thanks for the info.

But I would feel better if there was confirmation she was working with a jump doctor, not a choreographer

[Sylvia]

But I would feel better if there was confirmation she was working with a jump doctor, not a choreographer

Well, there's also a hearsay report from yesterday that Zhang's 3F is looking better: http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sho...l=1#post498814

[Polymer Bob]

Can you imagine the buzz on these boards if Caroline has been able to re-work her jumps in three months? That was considered impossible.

[olympic]

Well, there's also a hearsay report from yesterday that Zhang's 3F is looking better: http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sho...l=1#post498814

Just read it. I also see that she is still with Li Mingzhu. Hmmmm. I wonder if she is truly motivated to do the hard work in fixing her jumps and make a change for the better....

[judgejudy27]

I dont think Li is a bad coach. She coached Lu Chen for many years. I think it is possible to improve the things she needs to improve with Li if she is willing to work at them enough.

[loulou]

I dont think Li is a bad coach. She coached Lu Chen for many years. I think it is possible to improve the things she needs to improve with Li if she is willing to work at them enough.

I don't think you see how good of a coach someone is from the good kids.
You see it from how he/she can teach to the bad ones.

For some reason, people tend not to think about that. Instead, I find it pretty true.

[briancoogaert]

I don't think you see how good of a coach someone is from the good kids.
You see it from how he/she can teach to the bad ones.

For some reason, people tend not to think about that. Instead, I find it pretty true.

Lu Chen surely was more talented than Caroline Zhang. But who was the first coach of Lu Chen. I mean who did teach her the basic skills and the jumping technique ?
If this first coach was Li, then she is a very good coach. Because Lu Chen had a very good jumping technique.

[IceAlisa]

If she gets rid of the mule kick AND improves her basics, I would be over the moon.

[clara00]

I love her personality,spins but so slowly skating and she has poor jump technique. I hate Caroline's kick.
I think she need to a new coach improve her skills.

[pinky166]

The kick is only part of the problem. Her lack of speed, 2a, and low PCS are also things she has to fix. Plus also I don't find her spins as nice this year because she is so slow going into them that it looks awkward, the positions are amazing but they aren't particularly fast.

Also, didn't Alissa reportedly re-work her technique a couple years ago? It doesn't really have appeared to have worked for her considering she is still so prone to falls and URs, and doesn't have a lot of speed either. Alissa didn't leave her coach during this process so I think if Caroline wants to actually fix her technique (not only kinda-sort-not really fix her technique like Alissa did) she has to leave Mingzhu Li and get a new coach who will make her work really hard the right way to fix her jumps. Maybe Artunian?

[loulou]

Lu Chen surely was more talented than Caroline Zhang. But who was the first coach of Lu Chen. I mean who did teach her the basic skills and the jumping technique ?
If this first coach was Li, then she is a very good coach. Because Lu Chen had a very good jumping technique.

Not necessarily, in my opinion.
Some skaters tend to naturally deliver the correct gesture, while some others seem to struggle finding it.

For example, I'd think Kostner never flutzed or lipped, or hit a bad position in the air, becasue she was naturally inclined to do so. Not because her first coach was a good basic teacher.

Again in my opinion, you spot the good teacher when he/she is able to lead the kid that is naturally inclined to bad habits into developing the good ones.


Let's pick Mishin as another example: I'd say all Mishin's pupils managed to develope elite skills and pretty sound technique. Then of course we've seen differences made by talent, work ethic and drive, but the coach was able to teach everybody. Not just the very talented ones.

I'm often under the impression that skating nowdays is like the natural selection process: those who naturally have it proceed, those who don't get stuck. And coaches pay very little role in all that: they lead through prorper presentation, proper staff, maybe prorper conditioning, but don't seem to be really able to address technique when it's needed.

[judgejudy27]

If I were to guess her place in the current U.S pecking order I would say it is something like this:

Nagasu
Flatt
Wagner
Zawadzki
Gao
Czisny
Zhang
Baga
Dobbs
Gilles

Good chance Flat and Czisny wont return though.