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  1. #61
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    Caroline needs to make a big change this off season or she is done.

  2. #62
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    IMO, Caroline needs to take this entire year off and rework her technique. Because if she wants any kind of chance at Sochi, this really is the only year she can do this. Work on the jumps, the speed, the footwork...pretty much everything but spirals and spins. She's got those down.

    I really like Caroline, but if she doesn't find someone to lay down the law and if she doesn't follow it to the letter, she may as well forget about ever being on a podium again in a major competition.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by centerstage01 View Post
    IMO, Caroline needs to take this entire year off and rework her technique.
    There really isn't any "OFF". She can take her year to fix her problems, if it takes that long, and still compete. So she finishes 46th at the Grand Prix, so what? She doesn't lose anything by competing and finishing low. Most people on this board have written her off anyway, and she is a non-entity as far as the news media are concerned.

    I don't have the details right in front of me, but somebody over at the MK Forum posted that there was a nice ad featuring Caroline in People Magazine. I will try to find it.

    ........ EDIT ..........

    OK, I found it.

    http://mkforum.net/forum/showthread.php?t=23848
    Last edited by Polymer Bob; 03-21-2010 at 11:57 PM.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polymer Bob View Post
    There really isn't any "OFF". She can take her year to fix her problems, if it takes that long, and still compete. So she finishes 46th at the Grand Prix, so what? She doesn't lose anything by competing and finishing low. Most people on this board have written her off anyway, and she is a non-entity as far as the news media are concerned.
    If Zhang seriously works on rehauling her techniques on the lutz and flip then it's most likely she wouldn't even be able to successfully do doubles for quite a while. The only competitions she would be able to do during this interim are local competitions and non qualifying like Liberty Bells. Would Zhang be willing to take that risk?

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by orbitz View Post
    If Zhang seriously works on rehauling her techniques on the lutz and flip then it's most likely she wouldn't even be able to successfully do doubles for quite a while. The only competitions she would be able to do during this interim are local competitions and non qualifying like Liberty Bells. Would Zhang be willing to take that risk?
    There isn't much risk. Most of her jumps are pretty good, give or take a little speed. She only mule-kicks her flip and lutz.

  6. #66

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    Seriously? Her 2A is practically from a standstill and her 3Lo is awful - have you seen her corkscrew entry into it? Her only "good" jumps are the 3T and the 3S, which isn't even very consistent for her.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by oleada View Post
    Seriously? Her 2A is practically from a standstill and her 3Lo is awful - have you seen her corkscrew entry into it? Her only "good" jumps are the 3T and the 3S, which isn't even very consistent for her.
    Lol, you're right, but the Salchow is often under-rotated !

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polymer Bob View Post
    There isn't much risk. Most of her jumps are pretty good, give or take a little speed. She only mule-kicks her flip and lutz.
    The judges dont seem to feel that way. Even her cleanly landed jumps were almost all getting -GOE this season, not just the flip and lutz. I would like to see her restart her jumping and basic skating technique from the scratch as tough as that is. Most of the rest of her skating is excellent, wonderful spins and spirals, pretty good footwork, beautiful positions, a nice style, elegant and graceful movements, very nice musicality (though this year she didnt give much to some of her performances). However it is becoming increasingly clear she is never going to make it ignoring the most basic fundamental things of the sport which is the ability to skate and do basic things like stride, glide, hold edges, and the ability to jump.

  9. #69
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    This thread again???

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Braulio View Post
    This thread again???
    You know what they say ....... "All roads lead to Rome."

    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    The judges don't seem to feel that way. Even her cleanly landed jumps were almost all getting -GOE this season, not just the flip and lutz. I would like to see her restart her jumping and basic skating technique from the scratch as tough as that is.
    True, but they DID feel that way last season. They put her lousy technique in front of Rachael's clean technique twice in 2 months. It just seems that even if she does rework her jumps, she won't do well unless she can defeat whatever problem has hampered her this season.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polymer Bob View Post

    I don't have the details right in front of me, but somebody over at the MK Forum posted that there was a nice ad featuring Caroline in People Magazine. I will try to find it.

    ........ EDIT ..........

    OK, I found it.

    http://mkforum.net/forum/showthread.php?t=23848
    That's a gorgeous split falling leaf. Fantastic air position, lovely arms, stretch and everything. Such talent. Le sigh.
    "Nature is a damp, inconvenient sort of place where birds and animals wander about uncooked."

    from Speedy Death

  12. #72
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    Nice shot.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    Coach Li is listed as having started coaching Zhang from 2005. I don't recall offhand if she was her coach at 2005 U.S. Nationals when she won the Novice pewter medal. I know Zhang had several coaches before Miss Li and, from what I've heard from my southern California sources, Zhang's flaws (lack of speed and power in her stroking, small jumps with questionable technique) were often overlooked under the 6.0 system due to her many strengths (flexibility, spins, lines, ability to compete well, not fall much, etc.). Since Zhang usually had excellent results in competition from a young age, she most likely had little reason or motivation to improve/change anything/push out of her comfort zone. It is my assumption that had U.S. judges had been tougher on her at the lower levels (Novice and below), she might have been forced to fix the flaws that are so evident today.
    One problem that occurs very early is when other young skaters begin landing jumps with flawed technique. Very dominant parents demand results from the coach,and some give in and achieve the landings with flawed technique. It is very hard to break this later. For example,why are there so many flutzes? It is more difficult in the earlier levels to take off on an outside edge. For the same reason,some coaches teach the toe axel,forever dooming the jump. It is shear economics. Nobody wants to lose their most promising skater. When the judges choose to overlook this there is no motivation for the skater or coach to correct the mistakes.

  14. #74
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    Well, the Olympic season is over now. Caroline can take her time, fix her problems and come back strong when she's ready.

    Next season is going to be very interesting.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polymer Bob View Post
    There isn't much risk. Most of her jumps are pretty good, give or take a little speed. She only mule-kicks her flip and lutz.
    All of her jumps are bad bad and bad. She mule-kicks her flip and flutz big time. Her loop always give me a chill and i'm afraid she is going to snap her tiny hip. Same with salcow. Her 2A is the worst; even junior ladies and lower ranked skater can do it better than her. How she managed to get the revolution on that almost standstill jump just amaze me. She is even slower than Rachael Flatt. She has a lot to work on. If she wants to continue to skate till Sochi and want to get on a W or O podium. How long it going to take her to correct her flaws?? Who knows!!

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yazmeen View Post
    While we knew she was struggling, I never would have predicted such a low finish for Caroline at Nationals this year. She had no life, no spark, she looked like she wanted to be anywhere but on the ice there.
    This isn't my first time saying it, but everytime I've seen Caroline either in person or on TV at a competition, she has looked like she doesn't want to "be there". I'm convinced she'll quit the day she turns 18. There might not be much to improve her skating with such lack of enthusiasm and drive, but at least she can improve her smile by doing something she likes, instead.

    Yes, these are just my impressions. Yes, I could be wrong. Then again lots of people thought Ann Patrice McDonough looked like she was enjoying her time on the ice, too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fabrichnova View Post
    Caroline needs a coach who will bar her mother from the rink.
    I laughed and would agree with this, but you need to realize that Caroline only skates away from the boards when her mother freaks out and screams at her. If her mother were not there she simply wouldn't skate at all. She's not above throwing fits either, which is often what happens when a coach makes her do things she doesn't want to do, so if she were forced to skate by someone *other* than her mother, it wouldn't fly.

    As to why she isn't improving her jump technique...if she really isn't happy out there, why would she bother? She only gets screamed at to be on the ice, not to be on the ice and fix her jumps. She does whatever gets her by, like anyone else who doesn't give two craps about what they are doing, does.

    I've known Nagasu would end up beating Zhang since the 2003 (2004?) Golden West competition where she was skating as a novice. You could tell one thing about Nagasu: She WANTS to be there, she LIKES to skate. Contrasted by someone who is only on the ice out of fear, Caroline didn't stand a chance. Nagasu has certain things Caroline never had, and would need in order to improve: drive, self-motivation, passion, and a desire to improve. Without these, it's a lost cause.

  17. #77
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    So should I interpret this as she's being forced to skate (or to practice) by her mother?

    If so, she is done. I can relate in a way to this. If you don't enjoy what you're doing, you will never get better. You have to WANT to be good in order to be willing to put in the effort because talent only gets you so far.

  18. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by tangerine_dream View Post
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    If this is all true, that is so, so sad. I just can't imagine doing that to my child or to any child for that matter.
    A good rant is cathartic. Ranting is what keeps me sane. They always come from a different place. Take the prime minister, for example. Sometimes when I rant about him, I am angry; other times, I am just severely annoyed - it's an important distinction. - Rick Mercer

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by mag View Post
    If this is all true, that is so, so sad. I just can't imagine doing that to my child or to any child for that matter.
    Granted, it's also very frustrating for any parent to stand by and watch their child waste away an immense talent.

    For a skater at Caroline's level though, I think the expenses in keeping her in the sport would trump that kind of frustration. At least for my cheapo Asian parents.

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anita18 View Post
    For a skater at Caroline's level though, I think the expenses in keeping her in the sport would trump that kind of frustration. At least for my cheapo Asian parents.
    Hypothetically speaking, maybe her parents are footing the bills for her national level until she gets into a prestigious university? You can sell yourself much better to Stanford or Harvard if you are a nationally ranked skater than a burn-out. Is she entering her junior or senior year of HS?
    It's really a shame that she was taught such bad technique on her jumps. She has a fighting spirit, but when you are fighting against the bad technique constantly it does seem like 'why bother'.

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