What does Caroline Zhang need to do to work her way back up to the podium?

[RD]

^ Good point. Let her take the time and be patient. Results won't happen overnight even though some seem to want it to. It worked for Rochette after all. Years of inconsistency and then it suddenly clicked.

Not saying the same thing will happen with Zhang but it's her only choice if she wants any kind of success in today's skating comps.

[Marco]

Who's her current coach? Still Li Mingzhu?

^ Good point. Let her take the time and be patient. Results won't happen overnight even though some seem to want it to. It worked for Rochette after all. Years of inconsistency and then it suddenly clicked.

Not saying the same thing will happen with Zhang but it's her only choice if she wants any kind of success in today's skating comps.

I agree about patience. I am sure this period is more frustrating for her than it is to anyone else. I wish her all the best.

But to digress a little, flutz aside, Rochette has always had solid technique and a good feel for jumping. It wasn't a miracle that she fixed her flutz rather quickly. I am not sure if I can say the same about Zhang. Best of luck I guess.

[AxelAnnie]

I am with you ChibiChibi....I would really love to have her succeed.

[Polymer Bob]

Well, I know that Caroline is still relevant. If you search "Caroline Zhang" on YouTube, then sort results by date, this is what you get.

http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...=17%2C10&uni=3

I figure if the fan warriors think she is important, she must be.

( Though seriously, this nonsense has got to stop at some point. )

[shine]

But to digress a little, flutz aside, Rochette has always had solid technique and a good feel for jumping. It wasn't a miracle that she fixed her flutz rather quickly. I am not sure if I can say the same about Zhang. Best of luck I guess.

Agreed. Rochette actually had some of the nicest jumps even before she fixed her flutz, which coated her two seasons of inconsisency with that jump. Carolne in comparison has A LOT more issues with jumping. I'd be beyond impressed if she's able to fix them all. All the best to her!

[briancoogaert]

Agreed. Rochette actually had some of the nicest jumps even before she fixed her flutz, which coated her two seasons of inconsisency with that jump. Carolne in comparison has A LOT more issues with jumping. I'd be beyond impressed if she's able to fix them all. All the best to her!

Because her issues are not jumps. She needs edges...in fact basic skating.

[Marco]

Because her issues are not jumps. She needs edges...in fact basic skating.

Her jump issues are epic.

She has technique issues with 4 out of 6 types of jumps. Only her toe and sal jumps are decent. She overtwists her shoulder and hips on the loop takeoff, mule kicks and overtwists her hip on the flip takeoff, mule kicks; overtwists her hip and flutzes the lutz takeoff, and way overskids the axel takeoff.

Because of her unorthodox technique she doesn't get much size to her jumps at all and virtually no flow in and out. That's a big quality issue.

[pinky166]

Because her issues are not jumps. She needs edges...in fact basic skating.

Her issues ARE jumps, and edges and basic skating on top of it. Mostly jumps though. But even if she fixes her jumps she needs to figure out how to get her PCS up because this season her PCS in the LP internationally has not broken 50, and really to be competitive internationally you want PCS in AT LEAST the mid 50s for the LP, preferably 60+. So she really needs to work on presentation and basic skating and speed and jumps. Lots of things to work on.

[pinky166]

To put things in perspective, Amanda Dobbs and Christina Gao beat Caroline in PCS in the LP at nationals, I think that speaks a lot to the level Caroline's basics are at.

[Polymer Bob]

Possibly, but Caroline had the same basics the previous season and got higher PCS. In fact, the Japanese paid her $30,000 at the World Team Trophy for her poor basics. So what happened? Something must have been going on last season that we still don't know about.

[Autumn_girl]

13-15 y.o. Caroline was a tiny kid with amazing flexibility and spins, she was lovely to watch and in such a young age, so the judges forgave her poor basics and gave her high scores. And she had no reasons to fix her technique then, 'cause her scores were high enough. But now she is a senior skater and it doesn't work. She has grown a lot since last season and obviously not a tiny kid anymore, now judges are demanding with her just like with any other senior lady

[Squibble]

In fact, the Japanese paid her $30,000 at the World Team Trophy for her poor basics. So what happened? Something must have been going last season that we still don't know about.

As you said, she sold whatever basics she had to the Japanese for $30,000.

[pinky166]

13-15 y.o. Caroline was a tiny kid with amazing flexibility and spins, she was lovely to watch and in such a young age, so the judges forgave her poor basics and gave her high scores. And she had no reasons to fix her technique then, 'cause her scores were high enough. But now she is a senior skater and it doesn't work. She has grown a lot since last season and obviously not a tiny kid anymore, now judges are demanding with her just like with any other senior lady

Exactly. Caroline's technique has always been awful, but her jumps were actually higher when she was a 4'9" wunderkind than they are now. Also speed, you know it's one thing if a tiny little girl skates slowly because she has short legs, but I mean, Caroline is now as tall as Yuna Kim and still skates as slow as the itty-btty junior skaters she towers above. Also, Caroline's PCS have never been much better than they are now, they just seemed better when she was competing in junior competitions where the PCS are always lower.

[Polymer Bob]

Caroline's PCS have never been much better than they are now, they just seemed better when she was competing in junior competitions where the PCS are always lower.

Last year, Caroline was top American lady at Four Continents. Was she skating in the junior segment of the competition?

[Marco]

As you said, she sold whatever basics she had to the Japanese for $30,000.

What a rip-off!

[Marco]

Last year, Caroline was top American lady at Four Continents. Was she skating in the junior segment of the competition?

Ahead of Dobbs and Gilles.

And this was the pre-Olympic 4CCs

Dobbs was a nobody, only landed 3toes, 3sals and 2axels, fell and still equalled Zhang's PCS and was only behind by 2.5 points overall. Dobbs actually beat Zhang in PCS too. Get a clue.

This refusal to acknowledge her flaws is just

[carrot]

Last year, Caroline was top American lady at Four Continents. Was she skating in the junior segment of the competition?

Ahead of Dobbs and Gilles.

And this was the pre-Olympic 4CCs

Dobbs was a nobody, only landed 3toes, 3sals and 2axels, fell and still equalled Zhang's PCS and was only behind by 2.5 points overall. Dobbs actually beat Zhang in PCS too. Get a clue.

This refusal to acknowledge her flaws is just

At 4CC 2009, Caroline beat both Alissa and Rachael.

[Marco]

At 4CC 2009, Caroline beat both Alissa and Rachael.

Oh that 4th place was very respectable and absolutely the best she could have done.

Unfortunately her beating Czisny and Flatt was more of a negative reflection on the latter than it was a positive for the former.

She got the lowest PCS in the final group and even lost it to Czisny who didn't skate in the final group. So ultimately she didn't medal even though she won TES on the night.

I am not sure if people realised the trend for the judging: her PCS hasn't been improving much in the past years and her ability to rely on TES has reduced. She needs to work on both sides if she wants to become competitive again.

[Polymer Bob]

With all the talk of PCS, TES, GOE, whatever, .... there is one metric that no ISU rule can distort. That is the standing ovations. Caroline received several in the '08 - '09 season, but none last season. This proves that something was wrong. She did not skate as well last season as she did the season before. I never believed that her lower scores last season were the result of judges making a conscious decision to score her lower.

Unless maybe the audiences all agreed to subdue their applause.

[shine]

With all the talk of PCS, TES, GOE, whatever, .... there is one metric that no ISU rule can distort. That is the standing ovations. Caroline received several in the '08 - '09 season, but none last season. This proves that something was wrong. She did not skate as well last season as she did the season before. I never believed that her lower scores last season were the result of judges making a conscious decision to score her lower.

Are you trying to suggest that judges only base their scores on the loudness of applause from the audience? Huh??

In that case maybe the judges are just no longer excited by her flexibility and spins after a couple of years since her debut and are starting to notice her glaring weaknesses just like the rest of the audience. It's not that hard.