What does Caroline Zhang need to do to work her way back up to the podium?

[chipso1]

Have you seen her skate recently? Compared to all these other skaters she looks very tall indeed.

http://www.iceskatingintnl.com/image...JLA%201007.jpg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbCSH...eature=related

Yes, that picture is from Nationals, where I saw her skate.

She also scored barely over 70 for her FS twice, and one of those times was at nationals where scores are usually inflated. Also, in the events she won, she didn't win the FS. Plus people keep saying her FS at Jr Worlds was SO good and she scored 94, and most of that was due to high PCS, so if 94 is so good for Kiri and bad for Christina doesn't it show people that Christina is the better skater? She matched Kiri's FS score with lower PCS and a number of mistakes, and that was Kiri's best FS of the season. Gao was 3rd at the JGPF and 5th at senior nationals, Kiri was 7th at the JGPF and 4th (barely) at JUNIOR nationals, and at junior worlds they had essentially the same score. Clearly Christina is heavy edge to Kiri at this point.

Christina's JW free skate was nearly perfect, except for an over rotated 3Loop, so I'm not sure why you're referring to it as "bad."

You're also missing my point about Baga. She was thrust onto the international scene this season (she didn't even receive an "initial" JGP assignment...she found out shortly before her first event). The fact that she's been able to do so well while attempting (and landing) new, more difficult triples says a lot about her work ethic. Like I said, the triples will come with time...let's let ALL of these young ladies develop their skating for a few years before we bring on the doom and gloom.

[burntBREAD]

I thought this thread was about Caroline Zhang? It seems to get off topic every other page...

[pinky166]

Yes, that picture is from Nationals, where I saw her skate.



Christina's JW free skate was nearly perfect, except for an over rotated 3Loop, so I'm not sure why you're referring to it as "bad."

You're also missing my point about Baga. She was thrust onto the international scene this season (she didn't even receive an "initial" JGP assignment...she found out shortly before her first event). The fact that she's been able to do so well while attempting (and landing) new, more difficult triples says a lot about her work ethic. Like I said, the triples will come with time...let's let ALL of these young ladies develop their skating for a few years before we bring on the doom and gloom.

Why does she look so much taller than all the other girls then? I heard Kiri is now 5'4" so if that's true Agnes is like 5'8" or 5'9" judging from that picture which qualifies as amazon in the skating world.

In her Jr World FS Christina didn't do her 3-3, left out the 3 jump combo, and had a messy 3lo, which cost her about 8 points overall, meaning she could have gotten 102 if she was clean, which would be very close to Kanako's score. She got almost 99 at the JGPF for a clean FS with no 3-3 and getting dinged for 2 flutzes instead of just one so 94 is really not the best Christina could do but for Kiri it was a huge surprise.

I'm not saying Kiri won't be a factor in the future but AT THIS POINT IN TIME, Gao is more promising than Baga IMO, but she is also a year older than Baga so we will have to see how Kiri is doing next year to more accurately compare. Kiri has a lot of great qualities but has a tendency to choke in the LP and struggles with flip, lutz, and 2a and sometimes even her sal looks scary - she has plenty of time to work on these things though. Gao is pretty consistent and has solid technique which will come in handy for competitions. I think Kiri is a better SKATER than Christina, but Christina is a better jumper and competitor, and in the long run that's likely to get her farther in the sport.

[chipso1]

Why does she look so much taller than all the other girls then? I heard Kiri is now 5'4" so if that's true Agnes is like 5'8" or 5'9" judging from that picture which qualifies as amazon in the skating world.

I'm not sure where you heard that, but I would be surprised if Kiri is even 5' tall yet. Her mother is also quite short...probably 5'2" or 5'3", and Kiri is definitely still shorter than her.

[pinky166]

I'm not sure where you heard that, but I would be surprised if Kiri is even 5' tall yet. Her mother is also quite short...probably 5'2" or 5'3", and Kiri is definitely still shorter than her.

I heard from someone that she had a 4 inch growth spurt this year, and on icenetwork she is listed as 5'0" and that listing went up last year, so I had assumed she was 5'4". Maybe Agnes isn't that tall then, I know Kanako and Polina are short, but Agnes is definitely tall for a figure skater.

[Polymer Bob]

Mirai and Caroline both had growth spurts. I read somewhere they were having a contest to see who could grow more.

[pinky166]

Mirai and Caroline both had growth spurts. I read somewhere they were having a contest to see who could grow more.

Caroline always used to be a couple inches taller than Mirai and now Mirai looks a bit taller than Caroline, which is probably part of the reason Mirai had more of a complete meltdown in 08-09 than Caroline did because her growthspurt was like 5 inches in a year instead of 3. To me Mirai appears much taller because her arms and legs are longer than Caroline's, but realistically they are probably both nearly done growing now. I think both girls are about 5'4" or maybe just slightly under, which is a good height for skating. Even if they grow another inch, they will still be a good height for skating, it seems like the ideal height range for a female singles skater is 5'2"-5'5", once you get taller than that the skaters seem to get really inconsistent on their jumps, and right now there are no top ladies above 5'7" (Kostner, Phanuef, Gilles, Hecken are all 5'7" or slightly under and are the tallest I know of)

[AxelAnnie]

Let's just say (pretend) and sorry if this has been discussed- but what if Yu-Na hangs up her skates, and Caroline went to Brian Orser? Anybody see that as a silver bullet. I don't, but just kinda thinking.

[Yazmeen]

Only if Brian sends Mama Zhang on an extended vacation...

(IIRC, Yu Na also had a "skater mom from hell" and was miserable until the move to Orser which got this eased out and resolved, and well, we know the marvelous outcome)

[pinky166]

Let's just say (pretend) and sorry if this has been discussed- but what if Yu-Na hangs up her skates, and Caroline went to Brian Orser? Anybody see that as a silver bullet. I don't, but just kinda thinking.

I don't know if Orser would take her, he has a lot of students already.

[RD]

Let's just say (pretend) and sorry if this has been discussed- but what if Yu-Na hangs up her skates, and Caroline went to Brian Orser? Anybody see that as a silver bullet. I don't, but just kinda thinking.

No one can work miracles...

It's ultimately up to the skater.

[AxelAnnie]

True, it is up to the skater. I just wondered what people thought of Brian and Caroline as a match. I would love to see how she would do with her mom not around..........just to see. It would be (and I have no idea about this) difficult to take your coach seriously if your MOM was always saying you are perfect. Someone simply has to be giving that poor child some bad advice. She has (IMO) tons of talent, and flaws that should have been behind her by now. Makes me sad.

[RockTheTassel]

She has (IMO) tons of talent, and flaws that should have been behind her by now. Makes me sad.

Yeah, she really does have talent and could have been a stellar skater if she'd had proper guidance and learned correct technique when she was younger. It's a shame that she'll probably never reach her full potential.

[shine]

Except Kim went to Orser already with impeccable technique...

[key65man]

Yeah, she really does have talent and could have been a stellar skater if she'd had proper guidance and learned correct technique when she was younger. It's a shame that she'll probably never reach her full potential.

Whoever taught Caroline the jump mechanics should seriously question his/her integrity as a coach. I always thought she could be great because of her artistic disposition. But, I feel the way you do about the likelihood of her reaching the full potential. Sad.

[Autumn_girl]

2-3 years ago Mishin mentioned in his interview that he was asked to work with Caroline (she was about 14 y.o. then and just won Junior Worlds) on her jumps, but he refused. Sad about that, I think he could help her

[olympic]

2-3 years ago Mishin mentioned in his interview that he was asked to work with Caroline (she was about 14 y.o. then and just won Junior Worlds) on her jumps, but he refused. Sad about that, I think he could help her

I wonder why...

[pinky166]

I wonder why...

Maybe because he saw her technique was terrible and could tell that she was going to grow half a foot before she stopped and it would surely make her technique even worse?

[Autumn_girl]

Maybe because he saw her technique was terrible and could tell that she was going to grow half a foot before she stopped and it would surely make her technique even worse?

Maybe he was too busy, but I also think it because her jumps are so low. When Liza Tuktamysheva first came to him (she was 9-10 y.o. and had 2A, 3T and 3S then) her technique and skating skills were terrible too, but her jumps were huge and it was the most important for Mishin. As he said, bad technique can be fixed, and that's exactly what he did for Liza, but it's very difficult and almost impossible to teach a skater how to jump higher

[pinky166]

Maybe he was too busy, but I also think it because her jumps are so low. When Liza Tuktamysheva first came to him (she was 9-10 y.o. and had 2A, 3T and 3S then) her technique and skating skills were terrible too, but her jumps were huge and it was the most important for Mishin. As he said, bad technique can be fixed, and that's exactly what he did for Liza, but it's very difficult and almost impossible to teach a skater how to jump higher

I think Caroline's bad technique is part of the reason why her jumps are so low. That high kick really prevents her from getting a good vault off the ice and for her edge jumps and 2a she moves so slowly so that she doesn't get enough momentum to get good height.