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  1. #81
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    About Kwan and her 3 titles.
    My favorite is Song of the black Swan in 2001. It is the most complete program of the three.

    The red violin in 2000 was very touching, strong, with an amazing glide. But it was too front-loaded for my taste. No transitions and only jumps in the first 2 minutes !

    Her 2003 LP was just perfect. Simple but perfect. Jumps were perfect (except the 3Toe/2Toe), spins were perfect, footwork were perfect. And the crowd : wow, so emotional !

  2. #82
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    Kwannie. Even if her 2009 performance in Korea was a shadow of her former self and wasn't a really good one!
    Last edited by piano18; 07-03-2010 at 04:04 AM.

  3. #83
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    1. Michelle 2001

    2. Michelle 2000

    3. Michelle 2003

    4. Shizuka 2004

    5. Irina 2005

    6. Yu-Na 2009

    7. Irina 2002

    8. Mao 2008

    9. Miki 2007

    10. Kimmie 2006

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by piano18 View Post
    Kwannie. Even if her 2009 performance in Korea was a shadow of her former self and wasn't a really good one!
    Are you serious? For someone 29 years old and out of the competitive scene for years, this friggin' RAWKED! GO KWEEN!

  5. #85
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    she gained a little bit of weight which made her seem slower/more sluggish. other than that I thought she looked just like she used to...so I don't see what you mean by shadow of herself personally

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by piano18 View Post
    Kwannie. Even if her 2009 performance in Korea was a shadow of her former self and wasn't a really good one!
    What does her performance in Korea in 2009 have to do with ranking the World Championship winning LPs of the past decade?

    Just another reason to put in an insult I guess.
    "Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility." - Ambrose Bierce

  7. #87

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    Quote Originally Posted by shady82 View Post

    My rankings:
    1. 2004 Arakawa: This performance was ground-breaking! She set new technical standards with a 3lz-3toe-2loop and 3flip-3toe in the same program, and had created a superior artistic impact with Turandot. Her best performance ever!
    Someone else probably already said this but it was a 3sal/3toe as the 2nd combo, not a 3flip/3toe

  8. #88
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    She was slower than usual and not at all fit for her grande Olympic comeback. But back to topic, VIETgrlTerifa, on her best World FS performances of 2000s: I love her 2003 and 2001 performances most, and that has to be in the top 6. Yuna (Scherezade) and Kwannie (2003, 2001) FPs are ones I watch more than the other ladies. Mao had a fall in that 2008 FS so not on the top 10 list for me.

    But my favorite performance from her is East of Eden from World Pros, 1998: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vN3DmQwCbc

    I can rewind just to watch those spread eagles!

  9. #89
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    Arakawa deserves the top spot, IMO. Kwan's 2 of 3 world titles takes the next 2 spots.

  10. #90

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    Quote Originally Posted by piano18 View Post
    She was slower than usual and not at all fit for her grande Olympic comeback. But back to topic, VIETgrlTerifa, on her best World FS performances of 2000s: I love her 2003 and 2001 performances most, and that has to be in the top 6. Yuna (Scherezade) and Kwannie (2003, 2001) FPs are ones I watch more than the other ladies. Mao had a fall in that 2008 FS so not on the top 10 list for me.

    But my favorite performance from her is East of Eden from World Pros, 1998: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vN3DmQwCbc

    I can rewind just to watch those spread eagles!
    When was her Olympic comeback? Did I miss it?

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by piano18 View Post
    Mao had a fall in that 2008 FS so not on the top 10 list for me.
    Considering there are only ten championship performances to discuss, that's pretty harsh. That fall must have knocked her into another decade!

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by briancoogaert View Post
    Her 2003 LP was just perfect. Simple but perfect. Jumps were perfect (except the 3Toe/2Toe), spins were perfect, footwork were perfect. And the crowd : wow, so emotional !
    I agree with this to an extent, but thought her 2000 and 2001 worlds LP were the best, as the choreography, jumps and spins of 2003 worlds LP was not as difficult as in 2001. Sokolova was doing 3lz+3t in the short and long, (even if cheated) so I was really hoping Kwan would attempt a 3+3, or at least a 3f+2t in replacement of a 3t+2t in the LP. Still, everything was clean, and emotional skating at home, but from a competitive view, some of the elements could have been harder (Not really a fan of Kwan programs after 2001, could have been more choreography, etc... :\

    Her 2000 worlds LP would rank high on my list, next to 2001, if only the choreography was harder and the transitions were there. BUT i remember this LP the best because at this LP almost everything was performed with quality. Too bad she took out a bunch of transitions into her jumps that she had in the GP series, (so she could land them in the first half of the program), but after that everything was magical. The highlight for me, was the unique and complex circular stsq- ending with a frog position right into a besti-squat, into a Charlotte!! It was spine-chilling.

    But most of all, this was the first time, i can remember, at this worlds, that her Layback was perfect, (or just about), in regards to the leg position. She was not a flexible skater so this was extra-impressive. Unfortunately i believe it was the last time we saw such this amazing position from her.
    Last edited by Fallcolor; 07-06-2010 at 07:09 PM.

  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triple Butz View Post
    Considering there are only ten championship performances to discuss, that's pretty harsh. That fall must have knocked her into another decade!
    Got that right, sis'



    Kwan's 98 EX to Dante's prayer is another of my various favorites from her career, (I like her other EX too, On my own from that season) So good skating skills, only she had the special way of translating the musical passages into movement that was so only her own without being at all metronomed, some skaters force an internal metronome in themselves everytime to get through a program ( and that's not always a bad thing!) but not Kwannie though, she was so musical, combined with the skating skills, I sometimes feel like dying watching her!!!

    Even if her dumpage of Frank Carroll may or may not (okay, fine maybe it did lol) have hindered her technical advancement I am still in AWE of her longevity in the sport right up to the mid-2000s. I'd like to hear more from her about the dumpage of Frank, I wish interviewers would bring that up more.

  14. #94
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    1.2009 Kim
    2.2000 Kwan
    3.2004 Arakawa
    4.2001 Kwan
    5.2005 Slutskaya
    6.2007 Ando
    7.2003 Kwan
    8.2006 Meissner
    9.2008 Asada
    10.2002 Slutskaya

  15. #95
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    Giving more points to 2000~2003 performances just because they had more triples undermines how difficult the later 2000s programs are compared to the earlier ones due to stiffer technical requirements for all elements. Some of the triples Kwan made back in 2000 or 2002 without a doubt would be subject to harsh DGs if today's tech hawk-eyed specialists overlooked her performances under COP, and she might well have ended up with 4-5 fully credited triples per each performance. While Kwan's performances were fine, if she competed in, say, 2009 with Yuna, Mao, Miki and Joannie, she not only would not have won any medal, but also probably would not have made top 5. I agree with what Mr. Swift once said about Kwan; she does have a great spiral, but her level of artistry is at best about equal as to that of today's top skaters and she significantly falls behind them technically even if we take 1998 Kwan, technically at her peak, for comparison. She never was a technically proficient skater even in her best years.

    Overall, I have to put either Yuna '09 or Arakawa '04 at the top for the best winning LP program of the decade. It is a close call because each skater has tremendous qualities that the other does not have. One thing that is for sure to me is that they both have well balanced technicality and artistry. Unlike Kwan, Arakawa proved that she was more than capable of competing under demanding COP's technical requirements by winning the '06 Olympics. In fact, if she competed in 2009 with her Oly winning '06 performance, she probably won the silver.

    Others, such as Mao '08, while you gotta give it to her remarkable composure after the fall, was flat and forgettable - all I can remember about the performance is her wicked fall. Besides, Yuna's Miss Saigon won the FS leg, not Mao's, at the '08 Worlds. So was Miki '07; flat as she can be. I liked her '10 Vancouver performance to Cleopatra better than anything she did in the past but that's another story.

    I can't decide but I know the choice gotta be between Yuna '09 and Arakawa '04.
    Last edited by amaro; 07-14-2010 at 10:19 AM.

  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by amaro View Post
    Giving more points to 2000~2003 performances just because they had more triples undermines how difficult the later 2000s programs are compared to the earlier ones due to stiffer technical requirements for all elements. Some of the triples Kwan made back in 2000 or 2002 without a doubt would be subject to harsh DGs if today's tech hawk-eyed specialists overlooked her performances under COP, and she might well have ended up with 4-5 fully credited triples per each performance. . . .
    Overall, I have to put either Yuna '09 or Arakawa '04 at the top for the best winning LP program of the decade.
    , um, you do realize Arakawa's 3+3s at the 2004 Worlds would very likely have been downgraded had they been judged under COP too, don't you? At least be fair and present the same argument for Kwan and Arakawa being given the benefit of doubt under 6.0 judging where jumps are concerned.

    Unlike Kwan, Arakawa proved that she was more than capable of competing under demanding COP's technical requirements by winning the '06 Olympics.
    Not to take anything away from Shizuka's Olympic win (trust me, I LOVE THE WOMAN and loved that she won that gold medal! A win is a win!), but it was hardly a significant accomplishment to win amongst the trainwreck performances we saw in that final flight of skaters in the ladies' LP. Arakawa was the only TOP lady standing at the end of the night when her two main challengers had their worst/nearly worst (Cohen's would come at Worlds in Calgary) performances of the 2006 season.

  17. #97
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    The 2006 Olympics was hardly Cohen's worst. You are talking about a lady who couldnt buy a clean long program to save her life ever (excluding her pre contender days). After the fall and the near fall it was probably her best performance ever otherwise. As for Slutskaya she has only put it all together twice ever in a big event, the 2 years she won Worlds, hardly alot for a decade long career at the top. I know you are also a Kwan fan, and I wouldnt say it diminishes Michelle's wins that she many times wins (both domestically and abroad) when Irina or Sasha fall and throw it away, so it shouldnt for Shizuka either. That she was competing against 2 of skatings renowned headcases doesnt take away from the quality of her skating.

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    The 2006 Olympics was hardly Cohen's worst. You are talking about a lady who couldnt buy a clean long program to save her life ever (excluding her pre contender days). After the fall and the near fall it was probably her best performance ever otherwise. As for Slutskaya she has only put it all together twice ever in a big event, the 2 years she won Worlds, hardly alot for a decade long career at the top. I know you are also a Kwan fan, and I wouldnt say it diminishes Michelle's wins that she many times wins (both domestically and abroad) when Irina or Sasha fall and throw it away, so it shouldnt for Shizuka either. That was competing against 2 of skatings renowned headcases doesnt take away from the quality of her skating.
    I love Shizuka! I was referring to the "more than capable of competing under demanding COP's technical requirements by winning the '06 Olympics". I'm sorry, but that was a throw away competition for Shizuka to win and I'm very glad she took advantage of the moment. I was/am so thrilled for her and no one in that event deserved it more than her given the quality of the skating! It was like Kwan's 1998 Worlds win though when Irina and Maria threw it away to her in the SP with their mistakes and when Tara didn't show up to compete. Kwan had 2 major mistakes in her LP and was still able to take advantage and win because she was so far ahead after the SP. The excitement for the viewers is not there when skaters win in that manner. It's also like Lysacek's and Hughes' Olympic wins when so many of their challengers had flawed LP skates. A terrific accomplishment for the skater, yes, but totally forgettable from an audience perspective when considering the whole competition. JMO.
    Last edited by museksk8r; 07-14-2010 at 02:18 PM.

  19. #99
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    That Shizuka managed to post 125 points with only a 5 triple free skate (a huge number at the time for so few triples) was a large part of what put pressure on Irina and caused her to implode. And she got that very high score for the time with only 5 triples by mastering COP technical requirements very well I would think. Shizuka skated before her, she had no idea how Irina would skate, but she had to set a tough benchmark to beat which inspite of only 5 triples she did. Sasha before her did what anyone reasonable would have probably expected from her in a long program (if not better).

    Womens skating at the top level is very rarely a flawless duel at the top. It is the exception rather than the rule. 96 Worlds and 98 Olympics being examples of the exception.

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    The 2006 Olympics was hardly Cohen's worst. You are talking about a lady who couldnt buy a clean long program to save her life ever (excluding her pre contender days). After the fall and the near fall it was probably her best performance ever otherwise.
    B-B-BUTT Sasha was hyped and marketed by Mr. Nicks and skating commentator "experts" as "the most talented skater in the world" and as such, she shouldn't be judged under her own reasonable, imperfect, inconsistent expectations, but instead from a consistent, flawless ideal of what a perfect skater should be.

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