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  1. #141
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    It depends which SP you looked at – since it was her weak point the whole season. Subjectively I think that Liza's best performances of this season were:

    SP at the Cup of Russia Final
    LP at Russian Nationals

  2. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by caseyedwards View Post
    Jumps are the most objective elements in all of figure skating. If you got them at the age she does-I say more hype!!
    I guess. I still prefer Anna's skating to Liza's even though Anna's jump technique is not as good and she doesn't do 3-3. If you watch her SP she is in character every second of the music and skates very fast with a lot of energy and enthusiasm, plus she always at least attacks her jumps even if she doesn't always land them or they don't look the prettiest. If she can clean up her technique and learn how to get good GOE on her jumps, she will be unstoppable. Charisma and musicality like that cannot be learned, it is a gift.

  3. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinky166 View Post
    Charisma and musicality like that cannot be learned, it is a gift.
    But it's not enough. And I hope she will fix her jumps and finally do more than one clean FS in the season, because next year it will be really hard to make the team for Junior Worlds when Liza, Adelina and also Zaseeva, Gosviani will be eligible.

  4. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Autumn_girl View Post
    But it's not enough. And I hope she will fix her jumps and finally do more than one clean FS in the season, because next year it will be really hard to make the team for Junior Worlds when Liza, Adelina and also Zaseeva, Gosviani will be eligible.
    True. I hope so too, I love that girl so much, what a performer . Some of her jump issues may be growth spurt related, she looks like she has grown up a lot this season and that could contribute to the issue. She is very young though, she has time to fix her jumps so I hope she will, and at least now the jumps look better than they did at the beginning of the season - so she is working on it, it will just take more time. Also all her edge takeoffs are right, so that's one more thing she doesn't have to worry about. Who are Zaseeva and Gosviani ? I've never heard of them! More Russian wonderbabies?

  5. #145

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    Nikol Gosviani's 3rd place Jr. SP from the Russian Cup final in Tver (early March 2010).

    Kristina Zaseeva's 1st place Jr. SP from Russian Junior Nationals (early February 2010).

  6. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    Nikol Gosviani's 3rd place Jr. SP from the Russian Cup final in Tver (early March 2010).

    Kristina Zaseeva's 1st place Jr. SP from Russian Junior Nationals (early February 2010).
    Oh wow, they are both quite good! At this point I'd still say Tuktamysheva, Sotnikova, Ovcharova, and Shelepen are stronger though.

  7. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinky166 View Post
    Oh wow, they are both quite good! At this point I'd still say Tuktamysheva, Sotnikova, Ovcharova, and Shelepen are stronger though.
    I agree. But with juniors you can never be sure, it may change next season. Anna was not even in top 10 at Junior Nationals last year and look at her now, she won SP at JW. Or Polina Agafonova, she didn't qualify to the JGP final and then won Junior Nationals and came 3rd at JW, so let's just keep Kristina and Nikol in mind too Both has all triples and Kristina also has 3T-3T (maybe next year she will try 3F-3T or even 3Lz-3T, who knows)

  8. #148
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    !

    Quote Originally Posted by Autumn_girl View Post
    I agree. But with juniors you can never be sure, it may change next season. Anna was not even in top 10 at Junior Nationals last year and look at her now, she won SP at JW. Or Polina Agafonova, she didn't qualify to the JGP final and then won Junior Nationals and came 3rd at JW, so let's just keep Kristina and Nikol in mind too Both has all triples and Kristina also has 3T-3T (maybe next year she will try 3F-3T or even 3Lz-3T, who knows)
    Very true, very true. Anna and Polina A did come out of nowhere a bit so that can certainly happen for the other girls. Anna's total score at Jr. Nationals (106+) last year was less than her LP score (109+) at Jr. Nationals this year, wow . Polina A was a nice surprise too, there were articles after Jr Worlds that said she was so surprised when she won a medal, she was just excited to be skating with a lot of good skaters and hoped to make the top 10, well, she did a lot better than that!

    Kristina and Nichol definitely have potential too, I look forward to seeing them on the JGP in the coming season. Krsitina also looks fairly mature and may not have as many growing pains as some of the others because of it. I'm still hoping Rosa will emerge as a bright star too, she is just so adorable and her skating is just lovely

  9. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by bek View Post
    She moves with a lot of speed though and gets good ice coverage. Those are the reports from those who have seen her live from Goldenskate. I'm sure the deeper edges will come in time.
    I only watched it on video, but my impression was that ice coverage was poor and speed wasn't that great either. And she is doing loads of (sloppy) progressives and cross-cuts in the program.

    Quote Originally Posted by tkrm7778 View Post
    It depends which SP you looked at – since it was her weak point the whole season. Subjectively I think that Liza's best performances of this season were:

    SP at the Cup of Russia Final
    That is the program I looked at.

    I showed it to a friend of mine whose hearing (in relation to the music - I'm not sure how to phrase it in English) is way better than mine and here is her opinion:

    Well, if it had [anything to do with the music], I have missed those moments. I think I would mark her [around 1.5 on IN].

    If Mishin doesn't get her working on choreography and interpretation, he will bring up Ludmila Nelidina number 2.

    Her jump technique is amazing - I can believe she is going to be landing 3axels and 4toes even.

    But she's going to get deservedly marked down on the PCS.

    And you'll see by the time she's grown up, she'll get herself some Granny hair done.
    I personally think that what we're witnessing here is what is called Matthew effect (at least in Polish, no idea how it translates into English ).

    Because those girls are so extraordinarily talented and are doing so amazingly technically for their age, it means other aspects of their skating either immediately seem better because of this or are simply overlooked because the jumps are so impressive.

  10. #150

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    Quote Originally Posted by Autumn_girl View Post
    ...because next year it will be really hard to make the team for Junior Worlds when Liza, Adelina and also Zaseeva, Gosviani will be eligible.
    What is the age range for ladies to compete at Junior Worlds. Is the youngest 13 and the oldest 18? Thx.

  11. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by loopey View Post
    What is the age range for ladies to compete at Junior Worlds. Is the youngest 13 and the oldest 18? Thx.
    For next year's JW, the ladies must be: 13 by July 1st, 2010 but not yet 19 by July 1, 2010. So you can be 19 and go to JW so long as you turned 19 after July 1.

  12. #152
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    What do people think of Shelepen? Thoughts about whether she will be able to stay among the top? I have very mixed feelings about her, sometimes I find her skating lovely and other times she seems very sloppy. Also I have a feeling puberty may not be so kind to her judging from the length of her legs, she may end up tall and sturdier like Cynthia Phanuef or Carolina Kostner, both of whom struggle with consistency. I'm curious to see how she fares on the SGP, she seems to get docked a bit for PCS even on the junior ranks so I'm wondering if that will continue. Ovcharova has consistently gotten higher PCS than Shelepen this season despite a number of messy skates.

  13. #153

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    Quote Originally Posted by pinky166 View Post
    For next year's JW, the ladies must be: 13 by July 1st, 2010 but not yet 19 by July 1, 2010. So you can be 19 and go to JW so long as you turned 19 after July 1.
    UNLESS the ISU Council's proposed age rules pass at the ISU Congress in June...

  14. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    UNLESS the ISU Council's proposed age rules pass at the ISU Congress in June...
    I hope they don't do that. Poor Adelina missed the cutoff for the JGP this season by 1 day, it would be a shame if she had to wait ANOTHER year to compete on the JGP, same goes for Liza.

  15. #155

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    UNLESS the ISU Council's proposed age rules pass at the ISU Congress in June...
    And what are they proposing: bumping the low-end up to 14 or 15?

  16. #156
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    14, I think.

    Shelepen needs a personality injection. Her skating is so bland, it's painful.

  17. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    14, I think.

    Shelepen needs a personality injection. Her skating is so bland, it's painful.
    Agreed. She is all about the jumps, which is why I like Anna so much more, hope she can continue to work on her technique, I don't want her to become the Russian Caroline Zhang . Adelina is also so expressive and adorable. Liza is expressive in her exhibition pieces but not so much in her programs.

  18. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    I just quickly watched Tuktamysheva's SP from this season and elements were good but her basic skating is quite weak. She has quite shallow edges.

    She does use her arms quite a lot but her timing seemed totally off (I'm gonna ask somebody with hearing better than mine about it to corroborate ) and the program is quite generic.

    Posture and lines could improve. She's piking forwards a lot and shoulders are very slightly rounded. She doesn't extend her movements as well as she could either.

    Other than the jumps, I don't get the hype whatsoever.
    I agree that Tuktamysheva right now is not so great in many aspects of skating perhaps except jumps. I don’t even find her jumps as precise, clean, and reliable yet.

    However, we really need to put the assessment of her skating in a bit better context. First of all, is her speed of world class like Yuna’s or Caro’s? Apparently not. But, her speed is unquestionably excellent for jumps, especially considering her size.

    She tends to slow down a bit for elements other than jumps such as spirals (and in the later part of the long program), which is one of the reasons that her ice coverage is not as good as it can be (like Yuna's Arabesque spiral). I assume it is because she does not have good edge work and control yet.

    Could she work on them? Absolutely. She can gradually improve them as she seems to be naturally comfortable with speed. In fact, in other LP clips, her edge work and ice coverage are better.

    As for musicality, I do not think Liza is going to be another Yuna. Maybe, she does not have a great sense of music. Or, the synchronization issue may arise from the possibility that the choreography is too elaborate and complex for her.

    Nonetheless, she articulates so well (for her age) her fingers, wrists, elbows, even shoulders to a degree. She indeed can create lyrical moves with her arms (and, to a lesser degree, the upper body). In my opinion, she is very advanced for her age in that regard. That is why I am a little confused about her artistic disposition. When you watch how she moves with the volume on mute, she can be quite convincing (well, again for her age).

    At any rate, a figure skater is not a professional dancer. Yuna, for instance, is an exceptional case regarding musicality and the level of sophistication in artistry (or articulation and elaboration in every move of fingers, wrists, elbows, shoulders, even neck and waist). However, Yuna does not necessarily get higher scores for it than someone who does “reasonably” well in those departments. With more training, I think musicality and artistry will not be hindering factors for Liza.

    Regarding posture and extension, it seems they are more or less an issue of flexibility. Liza does not have great flexibility. As she is going to need more muscle in her legs for jumps at the expense of flexibility, it may continue to be a problem for her. However, this is relatively a minor issue affecting spirals and spins, for which other technical aspects such as speed, edges, etc., are judged. Not a critical issue as long as she is willing to work on it.

    I find her overall skating quite adequate, to say the least, except musicality and flexibility at this stage of development. With her excellence in jump, she can work on everything else gradually over the long haul.

  19. #159
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    Yes, she definitely can.

    What worries me, however, is the fact Mishin does not seem to pay much attention to anything other than jumps. Plushenko being case in point.

    So unless he changes his attitude (and he really should have learned from his mistakes after Plushenko losing Olympic gold on PCS and spin levels), I can't see that happening.

    Gachinski has pretty much the same problems (only he's not as talented a jumper as Liza ). He's so rough around the edges and his programs are so bland.

  20. #160
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    In such a promising field I think skating quality only makes sense when you land (at least some of) your jumps. I was rewatching some Sotnikova performances and she fell like 3 to 4 times in both, which makes it moot to discuss her skating qualities. Ditto for Kostner.

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