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  1. #721

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    I keep seeing the mention of 2009 and 2010 laboratory samples, does this mean samples re-tested in 2009 and 2010 or samples taken in 2009 and 2010? If it's samples taken in 2009 and 2010, does it make a difference that it was years after his last TdF win?
    Sometimes I think I lost something really important to me, and it turns out I already ate it.

  2. #722

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    I read something last night about an Armstrong failed test back in 1999, but it was swept under the carpet in exchange for a donation of $250,000 to some charity.

    What I don't get is how the USADA can strip him of his titles. Wouldn't the TdF or UCI have to do that?

    I know cycling is a joke with rampant doping etc, but it's interesting to me that there's been such a witch hunt against Armstrong and not other dominant athletes such as Michael Phelps.

  3. #723

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    The guy they interviewed this morning on Canada AM (sorry, don't recall his name) had an interesting take on the situation. Basically, he said that he feels Armstrong stopped the process because he was afraid of testifying and committing perjury and ending up in jail (same as Marion Jones.) Apparently, Marion Jones never tested positive for doping either...
    I'm not spoiled...I deserve all my stuff.

  4. #724

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rafter View Post
    I read something last night about an Armstrong failed test back in 1999, but it was swept under the carpet in exchange for a donation of $250,000 to some charity.

    What I don't get is how the USADA can strip him of his titles. Wouldn't the TdF or UCI have to do that?

    I know cycling is a joke with rampant doping etc, but it's interesting to me that there's been such a witch hunt against Armstrong and not other dominant athletes such as Michael Phelps.
    The UCI and Lance Armstrong both contended that the USADA can't strop him of his titles. It is part of Armstrong's statement.

  5. #725
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rafter View Post
    I'm torn about him. I think he's definitely a cheater, but I also suspect everyone in cycling is doping so he was playing on a level playing field, so to speak. I also admire the work he's done for cancer charity. Though some comments I've read from the anti-Armstrong people suggest that he got cancer because of all the doping/extended use of EPO.
    I feel the same way. I wonder if the only way to level the playing field is to make it all legal, let them all use, and let them jeopardize their health if they want to.

    They should just leave the titles vacant and not give them to other dopers or the entire process will be a huge joke.

    Anyway, all of this is making me far less interested in cycling.
    I think I will have a snack and take a nap before I eat and go to sleep.

  6. #726
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    I think the 2009 and 2010 samples they're referring to relate to blood passport tests which they claim show an unnatural pattern (as interpreted by a given "expert"), but nothing that qualifies directly as a positive test - but that is just based on some hints dropped by the USADA.

    I'm just annoyed that there is a great race going on in Colorado right now featuring some promising young US talent as well as established stars, plus the third Grand Tour and the exciting race in Portugal but all that will get coverage is Lance.
    "The Devil is joining in, and that's never a good sign." Phil Liggett

  7. #727
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rafter View Post
    I know cycling is a joke with rampant doping etc, but it's interesting to me that there's been such a witch hunt against Armstrong and not other dominant athletes such as Michael Phelps.
    I think one key difference is that with Lance there were a number of former teammates who were publicly saying they'd been involved in doping with him. Granted a number of them like Floyd Landis and Tyler Hamilton had their own issues and weren't the best witnesses, but there were public statements by people alleging first hand info. There's no similar evidence for Phelps and, in fact, when the USADA had a voluntary drug passport testing program as a trial program, Phelps was one of the athletes who volunteered to participate for extra testing.
    "The Devil is joining in, and that's never a good sign." Phil Liggett

  8. #728
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    Are those who covered up for Lance Armstrong going to face any consequences?

  9. #729
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zemgirl View Post
    BTW, isn't EPO used to actually treat people with some forms of cancer - those with anemia from the chemo? Or is that a different type of EPO?
    It is. It's something they give you to replenish your blood cells during chemo. My friend with pancreatic cancer joked that when he's recovered in a few years, he can go win the Tour de France and they can't get him for doping since he used the EPO in a legitimate manner.

    I generally have no opinion on this. The cycling tours are still great athletic feats. (So much so that probably everyone dopes.) Any couch potato who doped wouldn't be physically capable. It's just a shame that we won't know who really isn't doping until the science catches up.

  10. #730

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anita18 View Post
    It is. It's something they give you to replenish your blood cells during chemo. My friend with pancreatic cancer joked that when he's recovered in a few years, he can go win the Tour de France and they can't get him for doping since he used the EPO in a legitimate manner.
    Thanks for the information - I hope your friend will have a complete recovery, with or without a future cycling career.

  11. #731
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    Adam Rippon just tweeted:

    That #AwkwardMoment when they take down all the Lance Armstrong quotes at the Olympic Training Center. #Yikes

    All of the self-flagellation going on among sportswriters who, once again, have had their seven-year old hearts broken...
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  12. #732
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    Volta a Portugal
    24-08-2012; 8th Stage; 154,9KM (Guarda / Seia) - All about Mountain
    Winner: David Blanco (Efapel)
    Video summary of the stage: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcrISwBaD4c&feature=plcp

    First of all, it was a day of contrasts because in city of Guarda the weather was very nice with the sun shinning and around 30ºC of temperature. In the arrival in Seia, the weather was misty, rainy and the temperature was around 19ºC.
    Due to the way the stage was constructed, we can't really speak about a bunch. There were groups here and there.
    Jason Bakke of Team Bonitas crashed in a way down with Sérgio Sousa of Efapel. Still, he was able to continue and lead the race for some time until he was finally caught. Due to his posite attitude he was rewarded with the combativity prize.
    David Blanco (Efapel) won the stage convincingly and took the yellow jersey away from Hugo Sabido (LA Antarte) who is now in 2nd place and 8 seconds behind Blanco.
    Brice Feillu (Saur Sojasun) moved up to 6th place overall and Darwin Atapuma (Colombia) made it to the top ten (8th place).
    Rui Sousa (Efapel) was second in this stage and managed to keep his blue jersey (mountain).
    David de la Cruz (Caja Rural) still leads the youth board.
    Despite the fall on the stage, Sérgio Ribeiro was brave enough to get the red jersey (points) surpassing Reinardt van Rensburg.
    Team board: Efapel is in the lead. United Healthcare dropped to 12th place.

  13. #733
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    I'm not a cycling follower. Is it an open secret that Armstrong doped? Even if it's true that he failed drug tests in 2009 and 2010 (and I have yet to see actual proof of this, only allegations), then why are his TDF titles from 99-05 in jeopardy? Why are they backdating his doping charges to 1998?

    The jurisdiction and zeal of USADA seems rather suspect, especially since WADA, the US and Int'l cycling associations aren't exactly jumping on board to strip him of his titles forthwith. They're investigating him past their own statute of limitations - why?

  14. #734
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    Obviously if Armstrong doped (which is very likely), it is incredibly wrong. However, it seems like everyone in cycling doped, so, in a sense, wasn't it a even playing field?

  15. #735
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    I think a lot of athletes who dope feel that way. "Everyone else is doing it and I have to as well if I want to keep up." It's especially discouraging considering that powers that be are not exactly cracking down on dopers and are often covering up for them.

  16. #736

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    Quote Originally Posted by vesperholly View Post
    I'm not a cycling follower. Is it an open secret that Armstrong doped? Even if it's true that he failed drug tests in 2009 and 2010 (and I have yet to see actual proof of this, only allegations), then why are his TDF titles from 99-05 in jeopardy? Why are they backdating his doping charges to 1998?
    The USADA has his 10 of his team-mates from the US Postal Service team ready to testify against him that he was doping throughout his career. There are also many suspicions over samples from the 1999 tour that were re-tested in 2005 as part of the development of a new test for EPO: http://nyvelocity.com/content/interv...chael-ashenden

  17. #737

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    Quote Originally Posted by morqet View Post
    The USADA has his 10 of his team-mates from the US Postal Service team ready to testify against him that he was doping throughout his career. There are also many suspicions over samples from the 1999 tour that were re-tested in 2005 as part of the development of a new test for EPO: http://nyvelocity.com/content/interv...chael-ashenden
    A lot of these guys have themselves been caught doping, though, and some of them are being offered generous terms to testify against Armstrong; it kind of puts them in the same category as jailhouse snitches - not the most reliable testimony (e.g. I wouldn't believe anything Landis says about anyone without hard proof, for instance).

    Again, I think it's quite likely that Armstrong did things he shouldn't have, but I'm not comfortable with how the USADA has set about proving it. I doubt they have any strong scientific evidence, or we would have certainly heard about it by now.

    I know it's cynical, but as others have said - if everyone was doping, it really was kind of a level playing field.

  18. #738
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    Volta a Portugal
    25-08-2012; 9th stage
    ; 32,6KM (Pedrogão / Leiria) - Time Trial
    Winner: Alejandro Marque from Spain (team Carmin Prio Tavira)
    Carmin Prio Tavira finally won a stage. Alejandro Marque won the time trial with Reinardt van Rensburg (MTN) in 2nd and José Gonçalves (Onda Boavista) was 3rd.
    David Blanco (Efapel) was able to keep the yellow jersey, that he got yesterday, but it isn't over yet cause any of the guys in top 5 is still in a position to claim the overall victory tomorrow. Blanco was 4th in the time trial.
    Jason McCartney (United Healthcare) finished the stage in 5th place. The brazilians were finally able to have a good result on a stage: Magno Nazaret finished 6th. yay!
    The time trial was exciting especcially because Blanco and Sabido were in the road at the same time and in some points Sabido seemed to be able to get the yellow jersey back. It was a dispute by second. Sabido wasn't able to keep up with his initial rhythm and the last kms were a bit of a nightmare to him.

    And how about the jerseys:
    Yellow: David Blanco leads the overall board. Hugo Sabido is still 2nd.
    Blue (mountain): Rui Sousa (Efapel) still keeps the blue jersey and is pretty much the virtual winner. Today, this wasn't in jeopardy.
    Red: Reinardt van Rensburg (MTN) recovered the red jersey. Sérgio Ribeiro didn't do well in the time trial and couldn't get any points and that meant that he dropped to 4th place.
    Youth: David de la Cruz (Caja Rural) was able to keep this jersey today but only just. He lost time to Omar Fraile (Orbea Continental) who is currently in 2nd place. José Gonçalves (Onda Boavista) recovered to 3rd place here.

  19. #739
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    Quote Originally Posted by liv View Post
    That being said, he's done a lot for the cancer cause and charities, so I am torn about how I feel about him.
    People are rarely unidimensional. I've never believed he was clean (not because it was him, but because of my lack of faith in cycling in general) and it really got on my nerves when he was explaining he'd never dope and take risks with his health after having cancer. However, I also thought he had an impressive work ethic, showed a lot of perseverance and was probably the most talented cyclist anyway.

    Speaking of EPO, Lance Armstrong himself was given some during his own chemo treatments.

  20. #740
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zemgirl View Post
    I know it's cynical, but as others have said - if everyone was doping, it really was kind of a level playing field.
    Interesting graphic from the NY Times showing the top 10 finishers from the last few years and which have been suspended for some doping violationm (and those are just the ones who've been caught).

    I'm still annoyed all this is taking away from the fantastic US Pro Challenge in Colorado this week, as well as the racing in Portugal and Spain. The crowds in Boulder today were amazing - huge and enthusiastic.
    "The Devil is joining in, and that's never a good sign." Phil Liggett

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