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  1. #321
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    http://www.mob.hu/engine.aspx?page=s...yasport_091201
    Here there is a report on the Hungarian Olympic team (including Julia, of course, and also Nora&Maxim and issue about his citizenship)

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    Upsetting tone in that report, to be honest. And I think there are some factual errors.

    Here is what they write about figure skating:

    Figure skating: The old style of skating of Julia Sebestyen gets often overlooked

    About the chances of Julia Sebestyen, the head of the figure skating department Eszter Jurek said that she is in great shape, she is preparing for her 4th olympics, she won valuable placements and medals on the Grand Prix circuit and recently won the Crystal Cup.

    "Her jumps are beautiful, huge, she skates well, now we can only hope she will get her job done at the Olympics too."

    To the question of Tamas Kovacs, chairman of the Hungarian Olympic Sports Committee (whether the jugdes are favoring Julia's technique or not) Eszter Jurek said the following:

    "When Julia won the 2004 European Championships, we still used the old judging system, where the judges looked for the beauty in jumps, the choreography, and they gave the marks 5.2 or 5.8 accordingly. Since then, we are using the new judging system. First, they review the jumps on video, and every element has a base value. There are also bonus marks determined by the technical specialist (). Today, the the bonus varies between -3 and +3, so it's useless to give a +3 for a jump when the technical specialist calls the jump underrotated."

    Eszter Jurek added: the main problem with Julia Sebestyen is that she learnt her jumps with the old technique - one that gets downgraded fairly often. ( ) The "old school of jumping" preferred the safe landing, the trends today are different: "she should have changed her technique on all of her jumps, basically she should have learnt completely new balance positions, which could not been asked of her". Eszter Jurek said, it's still admirable that Julia's jumps are still high and she still manages clean landings. ()

    But the technical specialists, working from competition to competition are setting up an image about Julia [=that she underrotates her jumps], so [the federation] can't really protect her. So basically, this is the reason why she got her self-conficence taken away recently. ()



    About ice dancing:

    Ice dancing: traveling ad-hoc, citizenship for christmas?

    Sandor Nagy talked about ice dancers and said the situation is kind of awkward, because the Hoffmann & Zavozin team is traveling [around for competitions] without certainity and controll. () Their marks are getting higher, and good news is that Zavozin's citizenship may be ready before christmas. The petition is already in the next [diplomatic] package that will be sent to the President of Hungary - and from here, the petitions of the Minister of Justice and Law Enforcement get rarely sent back.

  3. #323

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    Quote Originally Posted by igniculus View Post
    Upsetting tone in that report, to be honest. And I think there are some factual errors.

    Here is what they write about figure skating:

    Figure skating: The old style of skating of Julia Sebestyen gets often overlooked

    About the chances of Julia Sebestyen, the head of the figure skating department Eszter Jurek said that she is in great shape, she is preparing for her 4th olympics, she won valuable placements and medals on the Grand Prix circuit and recently won the Crystal Cup.

    "Her jumps are beautiful, huge, she skates well, now we can only hope she will get her job done at the Olympics too."

    To the question of Tamas Kovacs, chairman of the Hungarian Olympic Sports Committee (whether the jugdes are favoring Julia's technique or not) Eszter Jurek said the following:

    "When Julia won the 2004 European Championships, we still used the old judging system, where the judges looked for the beauty in jumps, the choreography, and they gave the marks 5.2 or 5.8 accordingly. Since then, we are using the new judging system. First, they review the jumps on video, and every element has a base value. There are also bonus marks determined by the technical specialist (). Today, the the bonus varies between -3 and +3, so it's useless to give a +3 for a jump when the technical specialist calls the jump underrotated."

    Eszter Jurek added: the main problem with Julia Sebestyen is that she learnt her jumps with the old technique - one that gets downgraded fairly often. ( ) The "old school of jumping" preferred the safe landing, the trends today are different: "she should have changed her technique on all of her jumps, basically she should have learnt completely new balance positions, which could not been asked of her". Eszter Jurek said, it's still admirable that Julia's jumps are still high and she still manages clean landings. ()

    But the technical specialists, working from competition to competition are setting up an image about Julia [=that she underrotates her jumps], so [the federation] can't really protect her. So basically, this is the reason why she got her self-conficence taken away recently. ()



    About ice dancing:

    Ice dancing: traveling ad-hoc, citizenship for christmas?

    Sandor Nagy talked about ice dancers and said the situation is kind of awkward, because the Hoffmann & Zavozin team is traveling [around for competitions] without certainity and controll. () Their marks are getting higher, and good news is that Zavozin's citizenship may be ready before christmas. The petition is already in the next [diplomatic] package that will be sent to the President of Hungary - and from here, the petitions of the Minister of Justice and Law Enforcement get rarely sent back.
    I think what the head of the figure skating department told about Julia's jumping technique is the stupidity.There is no old or new jumping technique and the technique is always preferred safe landing otherwise the jump is not correct.Her jumps are not downgraded,usually she has get an "e" edge problem for the Flip.Nothing to do with the landing,the edge problem is with the take off.

  4. #324
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    Thank you for always making so much translating work!!

    Quote Originally Posted by igniculus View Post
    Eszter Jurek added: the main problem with Julia Sebestyen is that she learnt her jumps with the old technique - one that gets downgraded fairly often.
    Are there "old" and "new" jump techniques?

    Quote Originally Posted by igniculus View Post
    The "old school of jumping" preferred the safe landing, the trends today are different.
    So, today they prefer not clean landings, but something risky-shaky?
    Sorry, I really must have found an inadequate article

    Quote Originally Posted by igniculus View Post
    Sandor Nagy talked about ice dancers and said the situation is kind of awkward, because the Hoffmann & Zavozin team is traveling [around for competitions] without certainity and controll.
    And you say there is an upsetting tone in this article. Uncontrollable Hoffmann and Zavozin really made me smile

    I must apologize. Next time I will try to find something more credible

  5. #325
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    Quote Originally Posted by drfj View Post
    I think what the head of the figure skating department told about Julia's jumping technique is the stupidity.There is no old or new jumping technique and the technique is always preferred safe landing otherwise the jump is not correct.Her jumps are not downgraded,usually she has get an "e" edge problem for the Flip.Nothing to do with the landing,the edge problem is with the take off.
    I completely agree. Her points are totally invalid about the problems Julia and her team are facing. I think her jump technique is one of the finest and cleanest of the current ladies competing, and imho, even the Flip edge problem is not that relevant. Jurek's comments demonstrate that she has absolutely no idea what the new system is about, or what problems skater needed to face and work on who are older and competed under the 6.0 system too.

    Quote Originally Posted by daisyculver View Post
    I must apologize. Next time I will try to find something more credible
    Don't say that. I'm thankful you found it. It's just a shame that such an article and such unprofessional skating reports are even featured on the official website of the Hungarian Olympic Committee.

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    Julia rarely URs, but she does have a chronic problem of doubling jumps after the midpoint of the FS. That is more likely due to lack of stamina and/or focus rather than a technical problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by daisyculver View Post
    And you say there is an upsetting tone in this article. Uncontrollable Hoffmann and Zavozin really made me smile
    I think that means that H&Z aren't sure where they're going re: events and etc.
    And so, dear Lord, it is with deep sadness that we turn over to you this young woman, whose dream to ride on a giant swan resulted in her death. Maybe it is your way of telling us... to buy American.

  8. #328

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    Quote Originally Posted by daisyculver View Post
    Thank you for always making so much translating work!!



    Are there "old" and "new" jump techniques?

    You know, this is one area where I think there are. In the old system, landing the jump without falling or double-footing was of paramount importance. Even minor brushes with the second foot could be severely penalized. Skaters like Kwan who had neat feet and who rarely fell or double-footed did particularly well under this system.

    COP values full rotation of the jumps more than anything else -- you can have the messiest, ugliest landing, but if the jump was fully rotated (even if you fall) you're probably ok. So now we have lots and lots of skaters with crappy landings and falls that in the 6.0 system would have gotten them effectively eliminated.

    The other three changes have to do with jump distribution: 6.0 rewarded (and expected) the top skaters to be capable of doing all of the types of jumps (all the triples except the axel for the ladies, all the triples for the guys plus usually a quad.) Now we have quite a few skaters in the top ten, particularly in ladies, who can't do one of the standard triples -- and the way jumps work under COP, they don't have to. What's key is that they fill all the jump spots, even if that means a plethora of double axels and puny double loops that barely leave the ground. Finally, the distribution bonus for jumps in the second half of the program rewards something again different than before.

    So I think that coaches SHOULD be teaching a different jump technique under COP -- called the "It's all about the rotation, baby" technique, and a whole lot less time spent trying to get that elusive triple lutz or loop that foiled so many of the skaters before COP.

  9. #329
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    Quote Originally Posted by GarrAarghHrumph View Post
    I think that means that H&Z aren't sure where they're going re: events and etc.
    IMO, some context...

    "Not sure where they are going", as in, for the past 2 years coach Sándor Nagy has been training Hoffmann+Zavozin as if they are eligible, Hungary's top icedance team, and definitely going to the Olympics. This was the case all through the uncertainty over Makszim's release from USFSA, Nóra's (nearly catastrophic) injury, and Makszim's application for citizenship....

    "In an awkward spot" because after overcoming a veritable mountain of setbacks and uncertainty.... there's still more uncertainty, and now it's so close to the date of that trip to Vancouver.

    So H+Z continue to hunker down, making up for the lost training time due to Nóra's recovery from injury, and working hard to improve their element levels and point totals. In the meantime, with no GP events, the team participates somewhat successfully in a variety of the B-comps to (re)gain their confidence, to get some exposure and feedback from the international judges, and to rack up some ISU standings points.

    But things are not so gloomy , H+Z are definitely recognized as HUN1, they appear to have the full support of the Hungarian Federation and the Hungarian Olympic Committee, and the team is looking better with each competition.

  10. #330
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    Hi I was wondering if anyone had the results from
    SANTA CLAUS CUP 2009
    International Competition in Figure Skating and Ice Dancing
    Budapest - Hungary
    December 3 – 6, 2009

    Mainly I was just wondering how the Australian Ice Dancers did.

  11. #331
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    Quote Originally Posted by eliza61 View Post
    Hi I was wondering if anyone had the results from
    SANTA CLAUS CUP 2009
    International Competition in Figure Skating and Ice Dancing
    Budapest - Hungary
    December 3 – 6, 2009

    Mainly I was just wondering how the Australian Ice Dancers did.
    The results can be found here

    http://moksz.hu/mukorcsolya/eredmeny...2009/index.htm

  12. #332
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    Thank you

    According to the results the Aussie Pair withdrew, that's bad news

  13. #333
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    Random Hungarian skater question: How come Bianka Padar hasn't skated in any b internationals this year? I liked her performances at nationals last year ; I'd like to see her skating well at Euros after Sebestyen retires. Any news?

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    I think she did something. IIRC, she finished 14th at a recent competition, but I don't remember the competition's name. I'll check the Kiss n Cry section to refresh my mind.

  15. #335
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    Quote Originally Posted by alchemy void View Post
    Random Hungarian skater question: How come Bianka Padar hasn't skated in any b internationals this year? I liked her performances at nationals last year ; I'd like to see her skating well at Euros after Sebestyen retires. Any news?
    I've found something.

    Bianka finished 24th at the Ice Challende in Graz, Austria this season with a total score of 87.16. Keep browsing the rest of the competition threads.

  16. #336
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    A very short clip aired today on one of the Hungarian channels. It showed a small event where the Olympic hopefuls of Vancouver made their oaths, with shots of Julia Sebestyen, and it seems former dance champion Krisztina Regoczy had a speech too (they didn't air that).

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e57VDTXTlrM

    Here is what the host says:

    "The Hungarian team preparing to the Vancouver Olympics next february completed its oath today. Mainly skaters and skiers will travel to Vancouver, Canada. The Hungarian team will most likely have 14-18 athletes. The Hungarian Olympic Committee hopes that they can earn some points [in their competitions]. Four years ago, the short track speed skaters were the most successful, they're the ones with the greatest expectations this time too."

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    Thank you, Igniculus! Have you any idea why H/Z withdrew today?
    (The theories suggested in GSoZ thread were and )

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    No, nothing I've heard of.

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    Latest news of the ridiculous world of Hungarian figure skating.

    Figure skating scandal: "Aunt Tucsi" didn't know the correct number of the entries
    http://www.origo.hu/sport/egyeb/teli...akvezetes.html

    The Hungarian figure skating scene encountered a fairly unusual mistake. The leadership of the sport was trailing behind the rules as they only figured out last weekend, during the national championships that Hungary can send two ladies to the European Figure Skating Championships in Tallin, Estonia, and not only one entry. The competitors were aware of the two entry possibilites long ago. There is a huge uproar about the men's event too, the best male skater will not be sent to the ECH.

    Head of the figure skating committee, the accomplished Eszter Jurek (73), known as "Aunt Tucsi" in the Hungarian figure skating scene, still thought during the national championships that according to our last ECH result, Hungary can only send one lady to Tallin, Estonia - and that beside Julia Sebestyen, nobody can be named to the national team. This was not the case, as Sebestyen finished 8th place at the ECH last January in Helsinki, which earned the right for two entries, something she was aware of ever since. "I was really relieved when I managed to place 8th overall after my unfairly undermarked short program, and that we can send two ladies to the next ECH too. Even though this only became official during spring time, actually everybody at the championships knew this was the case" said the 2004 European champion.

    Knowing this, it's rather surprising that the Hungarian figure skating establishment didn't even know about this. Eszter Jurek admitted they made a huge error. "The rules changed and we missed it. We went along with the rules that were official since years and didn't read the new changes and communications. This is my fault, but also the fault of the whole comittee. Katherine Hadford finished 31st in Helsinki, but every skater who didn't make it to the freeskate, earned 20 points, and this with Julia's 8th final placement makes it possible for us to send two ladies to the ECH next January too. No harm done, we still have the chance to nominate Hadford to the European championships till the 28th december. So beside Julia, the national silver medalist Kati will be sent to the ECH too, despite the fact that she didn't even fulfill the minimum qualification criteria and that her triple jumps get downgraded at competitions all the time" said Eszter Jurek firmly. She added a very surprising explanation why they're still sending Hadford.

    "We have written down our explanation: Jeranjak Ipakjan, coach of Katherine is also the coach of Tigran Vardanjan, but she could not travel to the ECH if we wouldn't send another ladies' skater. She is also the choreographer of Julia Sebestyen and she'd like to be there for her [to help her]. But since we can only send one coach with each skater, Jeranjak would need stay at home [if Katherine wouldn't go either]. We won't do that, in fact, we are so kind in this situation, I can't even guess what's with the big fuss about the whole issue."

    It's definitely not true that every triple jump of Katherine Hadford gets downgraded, as she landed a clean 3Sal-2TL combination there, in the short program competition too. Hadford lives in Hungary for 3 years now and she speaks the language flawlessly. Nevertheless, it's true that her strenghts lie in her beautiful spins.

    "It's hard to say anything in such a situation, but if we have two spots for the ladies, it's understandable that the champion and the silver medalist should go. My coach Jera was happy after the national championships: not because she can travel to Tallin, but because I can go too" said Hadford, who knew just like Julia Sebestyen already back in january that Hungary still has two spots.

    The men have, however, only one spot. Since Marton Marko surprisingly won over the number one male skater Tigran Vardanjan, the committee decided he should go to the ECH. Vardanjan competed while suffering from a recent death in his family. When we look at the competition results, however, Vardanjan finished 10th at the international competition in Graz with a total score of 169,86. Marko finished 28th with a total score of 100,81. Father and coach of Tigran, Gurgen Vardanjan - who is also the coach of Julia Sebestyen - was not happy about this decision.

    According to Eszter Jurek, he needs to accept it. "Marton Marko won the national championships, he will go to the ECH. The Vardanjan-family filed a petition that they can't agree with this decision, but it never occured in our sport before that the national champion was left at home. I really like Tigran, but he needs to accept this decision too."


    There is also a photo of Katherine Hadford and Julia Sebestyen here:
    http://www.origo.hu/i/0801/20080127hadfordse.jpg

    ---

    There is also the usual bullshit going on among fans and followers of the sport how the foreign (eville Amerrikan) skaters are taking away all the competition possibilities from the "real" Hungarian skaters, and those who were born in foreign countries, but still share a Hungarian ancestry, are not recognized as true Hungarians.

  20. #340
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    Greatest thanks for the translation!
    I assume, usually skaters and federations know pretty well about spots and quotas, because they really want to have more of them. To my mind, Hungarian skating officials lack enthusiasm a bit. It's good they understood their mistake and there is time to correct it
    I like Tigran, it's a pity he won't go to the EC. It's quite a dilemma: we have a national champion on one side and a skater who showed better international competitive results on the other side. For me it would be a hard decision.
    The issue about foreign-native skaters is very popular nowadays. I think, if Kati lives in Hungary 3 years already, has Hungarian ancestry and speaks the language fluently, she can't be called "a foreigner who has taken all the possibilities from the "real" Hungarian skaters". But in case of Maxim Zavozin, I wouldn't grant him citizenship, because he mentioned himself that he needs it only to go to the Olympics. Moreover, he has spent not so much time in Hungary, has no Hungarian roots and speaks the language only a little bit. From my point of view, if he doesn't acquire citizenship now, there will be an incentive for him to continue skating for Hungary till the next Olympics And he and Nora can perfectly go to ECs and WCs even if Maxim is not a Hungarian citizen.

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