Valieva Banned for Four Years, Effective December 25, 2021

[Rob]

You and I were posting at the same time. That's my interpretation as well. I'm pretty sure that Skate Canada will win an appeal based upon the TE document itself.

ETA - It honestly blows my mind that reporters and fans are able to figure this out but the ISU can't. Just another example, as @tony mentioned earlier today, of the ISU and federation officials literally not knowing what their own documents and regulations say. Two years. Two years now for them to review all of the relevant documents and regulations and have the correct scenarios laid out, ready to go for whenever CAS made their ruling. SMDH.

That interpretation is what I pieced together yesterday, and when combined with the doping rules, I think it says they don't DQ the other team members (unless they have positive tests), but they should reassign the points. I do read statutes for a living, and I cannot believe they didn't get legal advice on this given the media attention. What a crock of an organization.

 

[skatingguy]

So did Canada’s only women’s OGM - Barbara Ann Scott.

Twice - can't tolerate Barbara Ann Scott erasure - and after the 2nd time the Europeans told us to go home & never come back.

 

[Former Lurve Goddess]

Twice - can't tolerate Barbara Ann Scott erasure - and after the 2nd time the Europeans told us to go home & never come back.

Rude Euros: a tradition since 1948!

 

[Karen-W]

Twice - can't tolerate Barbara Ann Scott erasure - and after the 2nd time the Europeans told us to go home & never come back.

It really was the double whammy insult of being beaten by the USA and Canada in men & women in 1948. Their pride was too injured for that to continue, lol.

 

[overedge]

That interpretation is what I pieced together yesterday, and when combined with the doping rules, I think it says they don't DQ the other team members (unless they have positive tests), but they should reassign the points. I do read statutes for a living, and I cannot believe they didn't get legal advice on this given the media attention. What a crock of an organization.

Which is what you get when people rise to positions of power because they are good at politicks. Not because they're qualified to manage an organization.

 

[Vagabond]

Which is what you get when people rise to positions of power because they are good at politicks. Not because they're qualified to manage an organization.

Or do arithmetic.

 

[Dobre]

I'm still of the opinion that the Russian team should have been disqualified for cheating. Not moved down. Rescoring an event could--in the future--create all kinds of chaos. That was one of the problems with the old ordinals system. One athlete's results could switch the results of two other athletes, etc. (And, as some people have pointed out, that can't be done fairly because some teams don't qualify for the second portion of the event. Likewise, athletes are selected based on a certain strategy and those strategies could be different if a particular team or athlete wasn't a threat). Much more straightforward to say that cheating is illegal, and sorry but that means you shouldn't put cheaters on your team. If you do, you're out.

It seems the IOC and ISU still haven't learned their lesson. If you don't hold Russia accountable for their actions, they will continue to cheat. And we will be back here again the next time someone gets their drug-regimen wrong. (Because what does Russia lose from this, really? They risked putting Valieva on the team because they wanted gold and only gold. So the lesson is that their risk was minimal. They get another color of medal anyway).

As for the ban, Russia needs to get the blank out of Ukraine and report all the mandatory drug data that has previously been demanded. Then and only then, the discussion about having Russia return to competition should begin.

 

[PRlady]

No, thanks, no need for a new thread. Some posters already started to belittle Hanyu's achievements and make fun of fanyus so the replies to them should be in this thread, not somewhere else. Everything would be easier if Hanyu wasn't living rent free in some posters' minds.

Ok, official request to take this topic elsewhere. Start a new thread if you want, but one side comment about Nathan and fanyus doesn’t justify derailing this thread.

 

[Dobre]

I mean, say that one day the Russian drug program gets fully exposed as happened with East Germany. Does the ISU really want to go back and rescore every Olympic team event? I'm thinking the answer should be an obvious no. A straightforward disqualification makes a lot more sense in the long run.

 

[Firedancer]

This article has some quotes from Nathan, Maddie and Zach and Maddie Chock

'Pleasantly Surprised': U.S. Skaters React to Kamila Valieva's Ban

They can finally call themselves gold medalists

time.com

 

[ballettmaus]

I mean, say that one day the Russian drug program gets fully exposed as happened with East Germany.

I think that requires Russia to fracture and/or a 180° regime change. Never say never, of course, but I'm doubtful that it's going to happen any time soon.

 

[skatingguy]

I mean, say that one day the Russian drug program gets fully exposed as happened with East Germany. Does the ISU really want to go back and rescore every Olympic team event? I'm thinking the answer should be an obvious no. A straightforward disqualification makes a lot more sense in the long run.

There's an 8-year statute of limitations on drug cases. After that period of time it would be very difficult to redistribute medals, and any attempt to do so would probably be overturned at CAS, and the Swiss Federal Tribunal.

 

[MacMadame]

Moskvina's statement.

She could have a second career as a Diplomat!

 

[Sparks]

Tamara >>>> TAT

 

[Karen-W]

This article has some quotes from Nathan, Maddie and Zach and Maddie Chock

'Pleasantly Surprised': U.S. Skaters React to Kamila Valieva's Ban

They can finally call themselves gold medalists

time.com

Zach wants it in Paris too!!!

There are no details yet from the International Olympic Committee on when or where the medals ceremony for the team event will take place, but the U.S. team is hoping to have it at the Paris Games this summer. “I think that being on an actual Olympic podium is necessary,” says Donohue. “The amount of people in any country that start skating, and then make it to the Olympics, much less medal, is so small that it would be belittling to host it somewhere else. It wouldn’t be the same thing.”

 

[Judy]

Canada’s overall point total remained at 53 while the Russians’ tally dropped from 74 to 54 — enough for the bronze medals for everyone on the team except the disqualified Valieva.

One point.

 

[leilaofpaper]

With the way her politics have been trending, Jamie might show up to advocate for the Russian team at this point.

Canada’s overall point total remained at 53 while the Russians’ tally dropped from 74 to 54 — enough for the bronze medals for everyone on the team except the disqualified Valieva.

One point.

As many other have pointed out, if you recalculate the womens score Canada ends up with 55 points, and so wins bronze.

 

[Judy]

As many other have pointed out, if you recalculate the womens score Canada ends up with 55 points, and so wins bronze.

Oh ok .. sorry I’m totally not caught up since earlier today as my sister and I have been dealing with some stuff about my older autistic sister. It’s been a bit stressful lately.

 

[Karina1974]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gymnastics_at_the_2000_Summer_Olympics_%E2%80%93_Women%27s_artistic_team_all-around

The closest thing we have is in 2000 where one athlete was underage and the entire result was nullified

I don't believe for one moment that all the gymnasts from the 2008 women's team were at least 16, either. He Kexin definitely was not.

 

[ilovesalchows]

Russia should be DQ completely. Doesn’t matter if they would have put in Trusova or whomever instead. The elephant in the room is that the entire team was likely getting the same “supplements” due to the systemic doping. If a player on a soccer team has a positive test do you just discount their goals?

I agree, medal ceremony in Paris this summer. Preferably on one of the days I am there.

I have a son the same age as Valieva. Makes me want to puke, what they did to her.

 

[Wyliefan]

Russia should be DQ completely. Doesn’t matter if they would have put in Trusova or whomever instead. The elephant in the room is that the entire team was likely getting the same “supplements” due to the systemic doping. If a player on a soccer team has a positive test do you just discount their goals?

But you can't base a ruling on "likely," even if it's VERY likely. The fact remains that the rest of the team tested negative.

 

[Karina1974]

Especially if that leaves the door open for the Russian's to set a rule going forward that protected persons don't have responsibility for drugging offenses.

There should be no such thing as a "protected person" when they are competing in senior-level international/Olympic competitions. Glass houses for everybody, regardless of age.

 

[Allskate]

Christine Brennan's latest article:

Confusion reigns in Olympic figure skating world over bronze medalist

After Russian skater Kamila Valieva was suspended and disqualified on Monday, there is confusion over team bronze medalist for 2022 Beijing Olympics.

www.usatoday.com

This is good. She succinctly lays out all the we have hashed out here today.

Actually, she doesn't lay it all out.

She does mention Rule 353(4)(a) of the ISU’s technical rules and quotes the language: “Disqualified competitors will lose their placements and be officially noted in the intermediate and final results as disqualified (DSQ). Competitors having finished the competition and who initially placed lower than the disqualified competitor(s) will move up accordingly in their placement(s).”

But, she says there are "questions still unanswered about whether this rule applies only to men’s and women’s singles, pairs and ice dance — figure skating’s four traditional disciplines — or also to the team competition, which is a relatively new event."

And then she says this:
U.S. Anti-Doping Agency CEO Travis Tygart told USA TODAY Sports Tuesday in a text message: “The Team Event is made up of all the disciplines and there is no specific Team Event rule on this issue that we are aware of, so the discipline rule should apply.”

There's something missing and something incorrect. As discussed here earlier today, there is an ISU document that lays out provisions for determining placements for the team event. This is separate from and in addition to the anti-doping rules for individual and team events. (It is the team anti-doping provision that doesn't address the placement, not the team event judging document.) Some people may have missed it because it is called "QUALIFICATION SYSTEM FOR XXIV OLYMPIC WINTER GAMES, BEIJING 2022." However, it definitely includes rules for determining results and explicitly says in section 4 of the Annex that Rule 353 applies to the team event.

https://www.isu.org/docman-documents-links-2/2022-beijing/qualification-systems-3/22994-figure-skating-v1-0/file

Anyone with a Twitter/X account want to message Christine Brennan and Travis Tygart? And maybe Skate Canada?

 

[Colonel Green]

Anyone with a Twitter/X account want to message Christine Brennan and Travis Tygart? And maybe Skate Canada?

I replied to Brennan on Twitter with it.

I like to imagine the ISU is so incompetent that they don't remember this document, if it indeed applies in this case.

 

[coppertop1]

So, what are they going to say from the media ceremony? Just have gold and silver? Russia is banned, they won't be at Worlds and the bronze is still being contested. What a mess. Had they done the right thing and Canada good the bronze, this would be avoided

 

[Allskate]

I replied to Brennan on Twitter with it.

Worth a try. I replied to her on IG.

 

[Judy]

So how long does it take for appeals to be resolved?

I posted the above link to Christine’s twitter re the rule.

 

[Colonel Green]

So how long does it take for appeals to be resolved?

A year at least, realistically.

 

[Colonel Green]

Worth a try. I replied to her on IG.

I sent it to Jackie Wong as well.

 

[Judy]

So with Russia Canada appealing then technically they can’t award medals yet? Russia wouldn’t win the gold … but it would cause a potentially 1 year delay? Wtf does it take a freaking year.