Yuzuru Hanyu to be coached by Brian Orser

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sylvia, Apr 25, 2012.

  1. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

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    I said nothing about what skaters earn relative to each other, which clearly you are clueless about by even suggesting that $1000 a day is what any skater would accept for doing a show.

    A sports agency is no different from a talent agency. They represent their clients and get paid work for them, and take a percentage of their earnings. If you don't understand that basic principle, then the rest of your argument is even more ridiculous than it already is.
  2. os168

    os168 Active Member

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    Not really, I am trying to framing an argument, a point of view that is why i pick simplest numbers. The data can be changed anytime. I dig what I can find, the rest are suppositions.

    So what numbers should we be talking it out... let's work it out. I use the term 'talent' to describe what is traditionally referred as 'players' in sporting terms, which might have caused some confusion I admit. I picked a random easy number based on how much approx Rippon / Hanyu could be getting at local exhibition show. Obviously their rate at a top international show could be a lot more, since there are bigger budget for those type of shows than the local county hall variety. As mentioned, even if you multiply that estimate number $1000x10 it still won't be a feasible business to support their whole year of management. The 10% flat rate might work for PROs circuit for a bonafide star since there are literally NO COSTs involved looking after these star unlike competitive skaters.

    You are incorrect, IMG is a sport agency. Read its history. CAA however, started as a show biz agency then also sport.

    LOL... you really think there's no difference? Try to tell to the thousands of grads who's studying for degrees in sports management. If you do a little research and ask around you'd likely to find endorsement deals are no way capped at 10%, and that shockingly, different agencies may adapt different business models therefore likely to have different preferential rates. Why? Because there's no law that says you can't unlike talent agencies in California therefore set the benchmark. Until some governance body decide to put their foot down ti cap the rate, they can theoretically charge what ever they want, as long as someone is willing to pay. The rates are likely entirely at agency' own discretion and can vary from sport market to sport market, agency to agency, states to states, country to country. What an eye opener heh? ;)

    Here's an interesting paper for all those who are interested to knows the ins and outs sport agents and the ethical dilemmas they frequently faces.

    http://works.bepress.com/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1001&context=kristopher_zinchiak
  3. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

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    IMG has many clients that have nothing to do with sports. Have you even bothered to look at their website?


    You can't even make sense of your own arguments. An athlete signing to endorse a product is a very different business deal from an athlete signing a percentage deal for agency representation. If you knew as much as you claim to know about the industry, you would know the difference.
  4. Japanfan

    Japanfan Well-Known Member

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    Do you know what the pay rate/range for shows is? (Just curious)
  5. ponta1

    ponta1 New Member

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    Huh? So Orser is unethical because he's going to coach Hanyu?
  6. aliceanne

    aliceanne Well-Known Member

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    os168 could have saved a lot of our time by just saying that he/she doesn't like Orser and never will. We get it, now can we please move on.
  7. Willowway

    Willowway Well-Known Member

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    Thank you!
  8. os168

    os168 Active Member

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    Sigh... incorrect...

    It is more like i don't like greedy meddling agents and bureaucrats who likes to manipulate the playbook and continues to put talents in jeopardy (public face of the sport who has became pawns in these corporate reshuffle games). Including ongoing attempt to influence results that has nothing to do with what goes on the ice. Yes it does ruin my enjoyment of the sport, which I'd like to think is based on fairplay.

    The sport should be simpler. Those who is the best on the day wins! They should be financially rewarded better as well, much than they do now, not the greedy agents.

    An average sport agent in New York's hourly billing is around $400 an hour not unlike a lawyer. You look at the photo I took from the WC Moscow to see the scale of business they have to do with this sport. I have also proven why 10% earning from a competitive skater alone wouldn't make their business worth which would indicate they are likely to be able to get additional funding likely from federations, or exploit the market by offering bespoke services to whoever want to buy. Think what the sport would be like if that money that goes to these sport agencies should go to the prize money instead? It would make all the skaters less dependable on their federation and less dependable on the agencies. That is the dichotomy facing the skaters today, they are basically trapped.

    For the record and I want this to be clear. Orser will always be a legend of this sport. He is a great skater, and likely a great coach who just need a little time to prove himself. If he is moved to Japan, it might work out better for Hanyu, for now for Hanyu's sake, I just don't want him to ends up another victim in someone else's game when it can potentially hurt his skating and health.
    Last edited: May 11, 2012
  9. arakwafan2006

    arakwafan2006 Active Member

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    Yeah...So...um... cant wait to see Hanyu next season...lol
  10. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

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    No, you haven't.
  11. Roxanne

    Roxanne New Member

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    Sylvia and (deleted member) like this.
  12. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    Thank you! :) Do you know if the blogger was the one who conducted this interview with Hanyu in Japanese and then translated it? Or is there a link to the interview's original source?
  13. Roxanne

    Roxanne New Member

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    It's from a magazine but I'm not sure what it's called.
  14. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    Thanks for this detailed interview. I did't know his ankle injury was this bad.

    Too bad he didn't explain how the commute would work.
  15. allezfred

    allezfred Prick Admin Staff Member

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    It's from a sports magazine called "Number" (the May edition) and written by Takaomi Matsubara.
  16. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    Last night I asked the blogger about the source of the interview and this line was added later to the blog:
    Thanks for translating it, allezfred (especially since I thought "Number" meant issue number!).
    Last edited: May 11, 2012
  17. allezfred

    allezfred Prick Admin Staff Member

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    Yes, it is a little confusing. :lol:
  18. kittyjake5

    kittyjake5 Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for the link. Only a small mention of his coaching change in Part 9.
    Seems like it was Hanyu's decision and Hanyu initiated the change to Orser.
  19. Sparks

    Sparks Well-Known Member

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    He DECIDED.
  20. Willowway

    Willowway Well-Known Member

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    The translation was terrific to read (thank you!). He sounds like a thoughtful and interesting young man. I look forward to watching him mature as a skater - he has a lot more to show us!
    Last edited: May 11, 2012
  21. triple_toe

    triple_toe Well-Known Member

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    :lol:
  22. AJ Skatefan

    AJ Skatefan Well-Known Member

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    You're crazy Sparks. Don't you know that he's merely a pawn of the Japanese Federation, IMG, and Orser Konspiracy? :)
  23. YukiNieve

    YukiNieve Active Member

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    This is an interesting article and I am glad that it has been translated into English.

    :)
  24. Sparks

    Sparks Well-Known Member

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    :duh:
  25. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Don't be so naive.

    He's merely a puppet in the hands of the illuminati.
  26. Sparks

    Sparks Well-Known Member

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    The Glitterati, perhaps.
  27. Japanfan

    Japanfan Well-Known Member

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    Why would you continue watching and following a sport if your enjoyment of it has been ruined?
    Last edited: May 12, 2012
  28. RunnersHigh

    RunnersHigh Active Member

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    No one could answer that.

    Are you ALWAYS happy with your life? or Figure skating?
    Never! ;)

    And os168,
    Its enough. The more you keep posting, the more you'd be bitten.
    What Orser can do currently in skating world is just coaching skaters and he nvr stopped it since 2007. If he is real good at it, we could enjoy his pupil's success and Orser's performances beside the boards written in Japanese again. That would be great enjoy to me.
  29. os168

    os168 Active Member

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    Uh.. look i don't write to win popularity contests, too independent and progressive for it. Nobody like complainers or whiners ... I get it! But I also know too much than to trust an agency vetoed interview released 3 WEEKS after after a controversial hire, a calculated move with the sole purpose to wait and weigh in public opinions, so the spinning doctors get their time to prep the answers, set the tone, and address them all directly in order to put everything to rest once and for all. Could have script it myself. The fact is this interview still directly contradict what Hanyu says in his recent published book, he wanted to stay in Japan to train.

    While it is easy to understand he might leave Abe for someone like Plushenko (Which Plushenko confirmed been approached with alot of $$$), what is more likely to happen is once the negotiation set in motion, the agent will leverage someone like Plushy to get Hanyu come round to the idea having a coach outside Japan and train out there. Once he meet them half way, the rest usually falls in place in the hands of a very capable agent.

    Do you really think he is going to say "Actually I am not sure at first because I just love to stay with Abe and want to stay in Japan, but someone told me I don't have to worry about money or ice time anymore if I could just pick from a coach from abroad. I picked Plushy. He said no, Orser is the only other one on their list, so I decide Orser." :lol:

    You also do realise the agency's role include media briefing all their talents before any major interviews likely with a pep talk or a check list or dos and do nots? What do you really think Hanyu is going to really say in his situation? Bite the hands that feeds him? That kid is too mature, thoughtful and responsible for something like this. (That is why he could be an amazing spokes person for this sport.)

    In any case, what is done is done. Good luck Hanyu and Orser! No point looking back, be good to each other... you are still the No.1 OGM prince! :summer:


    (Can someone please tell me which agency signed Hanyu and when? PM is fine.. Cheers!)
    Last edited: May 12, 2012
  30. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

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    :rofl: This is so beyond anything to do with reality that it's laughable.