Yuna shines in qualifying for worlds

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sugar, Jan 6, 2013.

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  1. l'etoile

    l'etoile New Member

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    :respec:

    That was my take, too. If anything, most of what IceAlisa has been saying/criticizing about Yuna could only help Yuna in her overall skating.
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  2. shine

    shine Well-Known Member

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    LMAO. Not every person who doesn't think Kim is a heavenly creature or the goddess of figure skating is Japanese. Although OTOH I do strongly suspect that a lot of the Kim fanaticism is strongly tied to patriotism.
    You are so ridiculously deluded. You need to realize that figure skating has been in existence long before Yuna Kim was born and there have been/are MANY skaters who have made a stronger artstic impression than she ever did and you need to stop blaming people who are simply not THAT impressed by her in that respect. Perhaps get out there and watch more figure skating would help?!
  3. BigB08822

    BigB08822 Well-Known Member

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    Fair enough. Obviously not EVERYONE felt that way but I think my point still stands.
  4. lakewood

    lakewood New Member

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    Perhaps, this was the first time you read Icealisa's post about YuNa. She has been saying exactly same story on YuNa again, again, over the years.
  5. lakewood

    lakewood New Member

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    Sorry, but how could "I don't like her" comment in any way help YuNa in her overall skating? Could "I think she is ugly" comment help any woman to become beautiful?
  6. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Port de bras!!!

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    Aussie Willy and l'etoile, thank you for understanding what I mean. And yes, I have been saying similar things about Yuna because the aspects of her skating that keep me from being a die hard fan haven't really improved. Every season that she competes I look for that change and every season I am disappointed.
  7. PUNKPRINCESS

    PUNKPRINCESS New Member

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    I should have, why exactly? Almost every figure skating fan who posts on a forum and discusses figure skating in this day and age has come across that document, and if not, most are acquainted with a site called Google. I did not have a particular reference, since I was going by memory; hence the "if I remember correctly."

    http://www.isu.org/vsite/vfile/page/fileurl/0,11040,4844-152086-169302-64121-0-file,00.pdf

    There it is. If you don't have Adobe Reader or Acrobat, again, try www.google.com

    Uh, yeah. It's completely off topic, I disagree with you, and that's NOT my point at all.

    My point was to reassert that while I agree with you that emotions are not judged as part of Choreography, they are judged as part of Performance. Then for some unknown reason you stated you had uncertainty on your part and that there is a PCS category of "Performance Execution" [sic], and that it's "not just performance" (an assertion that no one made.)

    If you are going to try to "correct" someone, at least be correct.
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  8. TripleWallie

    TripleWallie New Member

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    I doubt she peaked already. Remember this girl just started her come-back training regimen a few months ago! She made some serious mistakes in the SP at nationals and she's publicly acknowledged in her interviews after the competition that she still has to work on her spins and other elements. I expect she'll be much improved by Worlds. Granted, I don't expect her to pull off another clean LP at Worlds, since Yuna rarely does clean LP's, but who knows, right?

    I also expect her to be much improved expression-wise. She must have focused at least 80% of her efforts in regaining her technical skills in the last few months, given her long break. Had she simply been in maintenance mode, she would have had more time to focus on and refine her choreography and performance. But based on what we know, she's spent most of her efforts rebuilding her stamina, retraining spins and refining jumps. I think now she's reached a point where she can concentrate more of her training time on musicality and expression for the next two months leading up to Worlds.
  9. yunasashafan

    yunasashafan New Member

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    I have been following this thread closely and my feelings have shifted from being extremely proud of Yuna's accomplishment to a big disappointment when reading some of the exchanges that happened in this thread. I am really saddened by the fact that some posters whose opinions I respect deeply were treated the way they were for expressing an opinion.

    I am a huge Yuna fan (see my user name) but I would be the first to say that Yuna's performances at Korean nationals, to me, were not yet at her peak artistic standard. That does not take away from the fact that they were brilliant performances, technically outstanding, and got me tearing up at the end out of happiness for her and all her fans, especially in Korea, in that great moment. But, artistically, for me, the performances were "just" very good in comparison to her previous level. It is understandable that she woukd have been more focused on the technical side, especially after that much time away. In fact, as far as timing is concerned, this feels more like a summer competition for Yuna. I fully expect her to be at her artistic peak come worlds. There was already a huge difference from NRW, as far as i could see.

    So, i encourage Yuna fans to take a deep breath and not interpret any criticism of Yuna as an attack on her. Like all great skaters, she has strengths and weaknesses. Yuna herself acknowledged that she is not perfect and that, as of NRW three weeks ago, she was still more focused on the technical side. Programs take time to grow. Besides, no matter how much we, her fans, like her skating, some people, while still acknowledging her technical prowess, will not be as emotionally attached to it as we are. As far as I could tell, all posters were very complimentary of her achievement.

    Let's all enjoy these historical moments because, unfortunately for us Yuna fans, there aren't many of those left.
  10. bardtoob

    bardtoob Well-Known Member

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    I am thinking this went in a direction neither of use intended, PUNKPRINCESS. I'm hoping we can get past it. I did actually learn something despite this going all wrong.
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2013
  11. AndyWarhol

    AndyWarhol Well-Known Member

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    I agree. Her line, toe point and over all positions are not attractive to me, and there for, I am not a fan.
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  12. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    Excellent post. :)
  13. lowtherlore

    lowtherlore New Member

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    Don’t push it, troll. You don’t know better.

    I believe those who go after her and her fandom repeatedly with the same pattern and contents, in many occasions in concerted efforts, are strongly tied by nationality or (Japanese) nationalistic origin. I suspect many of them are with fake or misleading identities or multiple ids, and I experienced a ghost nic responding to my post in this forum.

    About Aussie Willy, read my posts. I’ve never conceded to her self-implied identity. I actually think I nailed her.
  14. lakewood

    lakewood New Member

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    Of course not. YuNa's greatest performances all came out at Worlds and Olympics, at her 4th or fifth performances of the year. Not only YuNa but most other skaters too. Did any skater give her or his best performance on GP? Further, this was only her 2nd performance after 2 years break. But, there were unjusitifiably slanted criticisms.
  15. l'etoile

    l'etoile New Member

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    Phrases can be harsh sometimes when they're criticisms. And, to be clear, IceAlisa never said "I think she is ugly" but she did point out her leg line could improve a lot more which is correct. Sure, if "I don't like her" is what IceAlisa said, it's true that it has no way of actually helping Yuna's skating, yet you should know that it was her opinion, not a criticism. People don't have to like Yuna like they don't have to like any other skaters.

    Like above, AFAIK, IceAlisa has been consistent in a way that she expresses her complaints about Yuna's line, so it prevents her from being an invested fan of Yuna's overall. That is just it.


    Thank you for this!
  16. riveredge

    riveredge Active Member

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    So much drama. LOL.

    I'm a Yuna fan. Obviously. But I agree that Yuna is not known for her good lines or flexibility. I think it's a valid criticism. I think she will never have a good line like Alissa, Mao or Michelle, so I just give up on that.

    As for her LP, I can understand why some are having a hard time liking this program. It's underwhelming I guess. But I appreciate her skate here. It's so rare when skated clean in LP. You could see she's a competitor and based from her interviews I'm liking her fire after the competition.

    Wish Yuna the very best.
  17. lakewood

    lakewood New Member

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    To be clear, I did not say Ice Alisa said "I think she is ugly". It was an example to point out that such comment would not be helpful. She has been saying virtually "I don't like her and her skating" so many times on this board over the years. I am sure her point was taken sufficiently by everybody.
  18. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Port de bras!!!

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    :lol: Poor ubers.

    I think that someone who works as hard as Yuna to become the best jumper in woman's skating IMO, could certainly improve the line, toes, layback, etc., if she chose, if she thought it was important and/or if she were pushed by the judges. Just to think how many more of us would get onto the Yuna train if she did! I think that someone like her could do almost anything in skating, which means I hold her to a very high standard, the standard she sets herself with her work ethic and her stunning technical ability.

    But one thing is definitely a lie: that I don't like Yuna, the person. I have nothing but respect and admiration for her athleticism and persistence. She is not just coming back, she is coming back very strong, not a half-a$$ed comeback that some attempt. Some sadly delusional statements here. Oh well. That's FSU. :p :drama:
    l'etoile and (deleted member) like this.
  19. a56

    a56 New Member

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    This troll never goes away, does it? :rofl: The same stuff written in every thread about a skater it despises and links what one group of people says to an entire ethnic group. :rofl:
  20. whoa

    whoa Member

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    It's like watching a pack of piranhas fight for food. A title with "Yuna" and bam! The fish are there.

    I adore Yuna's 3-3 consistency, her arms, and the spark she has in some of her programs; the (lack of) flexibility, layback, and toe-points, I'm not a fan of. Overall, I don't feel any way in particular about her - I appreciate her hard work and look forward to what she'll accomplish in the next 14 months.

    I wonder if anyone would ever ask her about her layback and feet though, as an open, no-judgment, super peaceful kind of conversation. Like IceAlisa said, I'm sure it's not without thought, and I'm curious why. This conversation is probably an impossible fantasy.
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  21. bardtoob

    bardtoob Well-Known Member

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    Let us see ... Shine has been posting here since 2002 over a variety of topics over 3+ Olympic cycles while a56 has been posting here since 2010 mostly in Yu Na threads ... who might I concluded more fits the term troll ...
  22. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    I posted this yesterday in the quads thread, but it fits here, too:
    Except that Yuna ubers really do take it to a another level. In that respect, it is nice to see Yuna fans such as l'etoile and yunasashafan, who are more open-minded and interested in actually having a discussion.

    For the record, I think Yuna Kim is a very good skater, I was really impressed with her when I saw her live, and I give her a lot of credit for how she's handled her comeback so far. However, I have never been particularly moved by her skating, and I don't think she is perfect/heavenly/the greatest ever/an artistic genius. And since I'm Israeli, nobody can possibly suggest that I am motivated by national bias in this matter :p
  23. CatYuna

    CatYuna New Member

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    First time posting. I've been following the thread and wanted to provide another opinion.

    Whether you are a Yuna fan or not, I hope we can all agree one thing. Her two events at NWR and Korean Nationals exceeded most people's expectation regardless of whatever inflated or legit score were given, and the fact that she is the favorite going into 2013 Worlds considering the performances by her competitions this season.

    Having said that, I am in agreement with YunaSashafan. I do think her two performances were not at the same level as the ones from the Olympic, but she still has 2 months to refine them, and I am sure she will. Yuna's Gershwin was not an instant hit for some people including myself, but it became one of the epic programs in history (at least for me), so I will wait until the worlds to provide my take on her program this year.

    In the meanwhile, we are having a lot of heated discussion on artistic aspects of figure skating that are subjective in nature. Music, choreography, beautiful line, etc. Difference in opinions are expected, and that is a good thing. World will be boring without the differences. I learned a long ago that I can not even impose my opinions on a family member. Good luck doing that on a stranger.


    In addition, many of you provided your qualifications why your opinions matter more, and I believe everyone in this board has more qualifications than me in providing figure skating opinions, but unfortunately none of our opinions will have an impact on the current skaters, unless you are one of CURRENTLY ACTIVE judges. That's the thing, all skaters including Yuna is doing their best, both technically and artistically, to get the best score in competition. Thus far, no one has done consistantly better, surpringly to some people in both aspects, than Yuna for the last 4-5 years in terms of score which only matters regardless of how some people don't care of her skating style, posture, etc.. So I can also understand that Yuna fans get offended when people provide negative opinions of the best skater (again in term of Judges's score). To them, it may sound like nitpicking Michael Jordan, the greatest basketball player ever to some people, when they are so many others to nitpick from.

    So, let the disagreement continue, but remember, it is only for fun among ourselves, the posters and readers, while none of our (including sports journalists) opinions really matter unless one of them is from the current judge.
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  24. l'etoile

    l'etoile New Member

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    What an incredibly great first post, CatYuna! Hope to see your posts more often:respec:
  25. lowtherlore

    lowtherlore New Member

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    Aussie Willy, I said you misunderstood me because by the word non-Asian I didn’t mean it to have any racist connotation. I said that since I believe, as in my reply to shine, that most of those who go after Yu-Na and her fandom repeatedly with the same pattern and contents in this forum, in many occasions in concerted efforts, are strongly tied to Japan by nationality or ethnic origin. That said, of course I know that there can be many of ex-Japan fans here who are not Yu-Na fans or impressed by her skating.

    Since you seem to be very sensitive about this and it’s not so clear to me on why or on whether you are an Asian, I want to ask you this: Are you ethnically Asian?

    Again, I’m asking this WITHOUT ANY racist intent. And if you’re uncomfortable with this, no need to reply.
  26. lakewood

    lakewood New Member

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    What a balanced post! :respec:
  27. AndyWarhol

    AndyWarhol Well-Known Member

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    ALL ASIANS DECLARE YOURSELVES!
  28. lowtherlore

    lowtherlore New Member

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    I'm all for it! Drop those misleading nics and be proud of being Asian! I'm one..
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  29. spikydurian

    spikydurian New Member

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    :shuffle:

    No Lowtherlore, Aussie Willy is a true blue Aussie. We Aussies are peace loving, tree hugging and loyal souls. :p Our favourite assertions are 'fair go' and 'mateship'. You have aimed your gun at the wrong target. :D Aussie Willy was just giving a personal opinion which I think AW thought might be helpful (but apparently it back-fired). Aussie Willy is NOT a troll. That I can vouch for my fellow country mate. Just check AW's past posts.
  30. rayhaneh

    rayhaneh New Member

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    I think AndyWharhol might have been sarcastic :shuffle:

    What's next? Should we all post our picture to prove our ethnicity? And what about having a little symbol next to our nickname so that people can instantly indentify us as being Caucasian, Asian, etc? That way you can discard ANY criticism, no matter how mild or rationally presented, from the moment it comes from someone who might be related to Japan in some way - wouldn't that be fantastic? :D :wall:

    (and yes, I know about Maobots - and Yunabots too btw, except here you were asking such questions of someone whose sole crime was to want to contribute her point of view - respectfully - to the conversation)
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2013
  31. lowtherlore

    lowtherlore New Member

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    rayhaneh, I appreciate your concerns, thanks. And yes, I too understood AW’s post as a sarcasm.

    My answer is in my earlier post:

    This is a very unfortunate and abnormal situation. Please, don’t put Yu-Na fans and Mao/Japan fans on the same line here. You never see Yu-Na fans swarm to Mao-related threads to criticize her collectively. I, for one, seldom visit Mao threads. But in every Yu-Na related threads there are those who swarm in to repeat same things against her and her fandom over and over again. It’s just extraordinary. And I strongly believe vast majority of them are Japanese or of Japanese origin, regardless of what their nickname implies or their self-claimed identities are. Isn’t it clear that’s why every Yu-Na thread gets fired up? I think it’s really unfair to blame Yu-Na fans for this extraordinary situation. Most of them, including me, are open to reasonable criticisms and opinions from sincere skating fans. Again, with that said, of course I understand there can be those ex-Japan fans who don’t find Yu-Na their cup of tea.
  32. falling_dance

    falling_dance The Scarlet Unlettered

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    I think that trying to intimidate someone out of expressing their views is disgusting. Persistently questioning another poster's self-professed nationality, ethnicity, etc., simply because of a suspicion that there are people who post criticisms of your favorite skater for reasons of nationalism, amounts to just that.
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  33. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    In every Yuna-related thread, her ubers swarm in to repeat the same things over and over regarding those who aren't fans. It is just extraordinary.

    Your claims about all detractors/non-fans being motivated by nationalistic fervor are ludicrous. It is possible not to admire Yuna Kim's skating (or anybody else's skating) just because it doesn't appeal to you.
  34. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    Are you f*cking serious? How dare you ask me this question after I categorically stated in a previous post that I am Australian!!!! Do I need to explain it further? And no I am not uncomfortable or sensitive about the question. I even more pissed off with you bloody questioning me after I already told you that I am a fair dinkum true blue dinky di Australian - born and bred here. This is so pathetic questioning posters to try and establish an ethic stereotype that you have obviously developed about particular skating fans. You really need to have a good hard look at yourself.

    And I can't go by with posting this comment:
    You are so freakin off the mark it is ridiculous and you are just digging a bigger and bigger hole of idiocy. I don't give a shit about your opinions but when you are totally wrong then you need to be brought to account. What a freak!

    Previous apology is now not accepted. May a pox descend upon your puny little troll pea brain.

    Give me some popcorn to throw at this idiot!!!
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2013
  35. lowtherlore

    lowtherlore New Member

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    I’m sorry, but you are missing my point. It’s okay if someone doesn’t like Yu-Na. That’s not the point here. If you’re not an Japanese anti Yu-Na as you said, none of my previous posts directly concerns you.

    Thanks for the comments. But I’m waiting for a reply from Aussie Willy, either by a post or a PM. I hope she answer, so that we can get some perspective on this mess. She was very eager in disclosing her training and learning background in qualifying her repetitious posts, after all.
  36. vodkashot

    vodkashot New Member

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    Aussie Willy, this Canadian gives you :watch::watch::watch:


    Denigrating the views of posters based on ridiculous (and completely baseless) suspicions about their ethnicity/nationality is just pathetic.
  37. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    Hey thanks for the popcorn.

    I now officially declare I will exchange rep points for popcorn. Except you lovely people who I have already given positive rep to - you just get my love.
  38. lowtherlore

    lowtherlore New Member

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    Thanks for the reply. You didn't categorically reply to my inquiry whether you are ethnically Asian (again, no racist connotation implied, I myself am an ethnic Asian, but a US citizen), but that's fine. ;)
  39. AndyWarhol

    AndyWarhol Well-Known Member

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  40. vigiliae

    vigiliae New Member

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    IMO this mess will be cleaned up soon if you stop posting on this thread. :p

    ((Aussie Willy :watch:))
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