Yuna shines in qualifying for worlds

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sugar, Jan 6, 2013.

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  1. os168

    os168 Active Member

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    If such is the case why bother have any music interpretation at all?

    This particular music edit of Les Miserable is intricate and heavily edit with much care and attention. It is not some random piece of music plonked one after the other following any linear story line like some typical faithful adaptations. There are meaning and purpose behind the music reconstruct on at a meta level including prototyping and reshaping music epic to follow certain creative directions from the team. Otherwise they could have just picked a famous song like 'I dream a dream', romanticise the heck out of it and that would be end of it. Why make their own lives more complicated?

    Can you get anymore condescending or insulting?

    Disagree 100% projection is the only way to perform ANY live performances, and certainly not for the 'On My Own' section of the program. Reason explained already. What made that piece of music spoke to people is because of its internal monologue qualities. In all the stage directions I have seen, it was never about the actress projection outwards but more demand the audience projecting inwards as if they are eave dropping on something quietly intimate, deeply personal and painful. If other 'hundreds' of Eponine/actresses sang to the audience and made eye contact as if she is happily and willingly sharing her most intimate moment and pushing the idea of inviting sympathy down the audience's throats, then clearly they are doing a VERY poor job, and harms the integrity of the character of Eponine, given the meaning of the song is selflessly giving and not expect any receiving. Les Mis started in London more than 27 years ago, it is the musical that launched hundreds of other musicals in London Westend and around the world. It is certainly the musical that made me fell in love with live theatre, so yeah I am very protective of it, more than any other B productions out there at village halls or high school plays which frankly I don't give a toss.

    In anycase, a nitpicker is a nitpicker, how about go nit picking somewhere else and leave my underwear out of it! (I can't believe I am typing this on a Monday morning WTH?!)


    Sure anyone is entitled to feel and believe what they feel and believe, just don't be surprised there are others who disagrees because they are better informed. Bach was pop, Strauss was Pop, Tchaikovsky was pop during their days, what is your point here? Les Miserable is quality music and it will last well beyond next centuries just like Bizet's Carmen easily. In any case my 'dissertation' (what university did you go to warrant such a short dissertation?) was to martyross because I know he has the propensity to appreciate a healthy discussion on artistry beyond the obvious, and speculate over the creativity decisions that can elevate certain skating programs beyond COP parameters. To be open minded enough to have a sound discussion without taking things personally, and be sensitive and considered enough not to see everything in black and white at a reductionist COP level. I find funny given this suppose to be s a figure skating board that is suppose to celebrate good figure skating, yet it doesn't seem to welcome much analysis to what would constitute towards a longevity and credibility of great program beyond the 'I don't like it because she is not wearing white boots which I really lurrrve' variety.

    Overanalyse things? How about not analyse them enough to improve the quality of artistry output, which explains the state of this sport and its inability to rise beyond its status quo? It is about changing assumptions that 100% full on emotional projection automatically equals best presentation without considering of the the meaning and purpose behind the music and art direction which they are projecting. Music is not meaningless complementary noises there to garnish choreography movements designed for attractive COP number crunching .

    If such is true, then Morozov must be God here ... *shudders* wait.. on that thought - I am outta here!
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2013
  2. orientalplane

    orientalplane Mad for mangelwurzels

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    I meant it absolutely. :)
     
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  3. lowtherlore

    lowtherlore New Member

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    They WON"T appreciate no matter what she does. If Yu-Na/Wilson picked one phase of the novel/musical, and did an in-depth interpretation of that specific sub-theme, they WILL complain on and on about her failure in portraying the overall or comprehensive impression/atmosphere of the subject matter.

    The way I see it, it's them who need to step back and view her performance in a broad perspective. It's significance/influence to the current state of ladies, let alone being another of Yu-Na's own memorable performance, this time monumental in the sense that it was done before the home fans in what could be her final competition at home, domestic or international.

    She and D Wilson came up with two beautiful programs, IMO better than anyone else's in this season.

    Fixed-angle fancam of Yu-Na's FS from a far-side top deck, showing the entire rink
    It shows well her speed and coverage. The latter scene is reminiscent of the Michelle Kwan moment at 2004(?) US Nationals.
     
  4. Iceman

    Iceman Well-Known Member

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    No one has criticized her wearing her boots covered yet!!!!!:D:rolleyes:;)
     
  5. jatale

    jatale New Member

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    People predisposed to dislike a skater, no matter what the reason, will always see what they "want" to see - that is the way the human mind works. You hear and see what you desire to hear and see. This applies to any form of art. In order to fairly evaluate any ice-skating performance, you have to place your mind in a totally open frame of reference, all fan allegiances fall away, you relax, you let the music and performance enter your mind and let your soul openly experience it. This is EXTREMELY hard to do, often we purposely look for some flaw or anything that will satisfy our predispositions, and this leads to bias in our evaluations. It is sad but true, and we are all guilty of it. Hopefully, ISU skating judges try hard to be objective - that is their professional duty - but I'm sure many of them let predispositions interfere sometimes.
     
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  6. rayhaneh

    rayhaneh New Member

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    And people predisposed to like a skater will do exactly the same.....:shuffle:

    So in the greater scheme of things, it all balances out :D
     
  7. lowtherlore

    lowtherlore New Member

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    That’s true, but simplistic at the same time. ;) One can’t deny there are those who like to propagandize against Yu-Na, all the time, for whatever reason they can come up with, over and over again.

    I understand that some fans can be genuinely predisposed to dislike her for whatever reason/taste. But they need to be at least fair. For example, some people typically nitpick on her layback, spiral, lines, toes, etc. IMO her laybacks and spirals are excellent. As for the layback, her upper body is very flexible and you don’t see too many ladies goes that far with her back (not side-way) and spin as fast and centered. About the spiral, her positions, edges, control and speed are all excellent. Some might complain her free leg not extended or high enough, but I like the way she hold her dignity by keeping her shoulder, neck and head straightened up throughout, and her extension is fine, except for the toe.

    Her lines and arms too are excellent, ever since her beginning as a junior skater. I also hear them complaining about her not being “balletic” enough. Yu-Na once said (some years ago), “Figure skating and ballet are not the same, are they?” I totally agree with her. The influence of classical music and ballet on figure skating can’t be downplayed. But it’s becoming more and more banalized, and the ladies' programs to balletic music usually show juvenile level ballet moves. Who would be interested in that? Skating fans? Ballet fans? IMO this sport, especially the ladies skating, needs to extend its boundary to incorporate new themes, routines and new performance and athletic (speed, control, et al) standards. I believe Yu-Na has already contributed much to that end. IMO the ladies figure skating can be popular again, and she showed the way.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2013
  8. ioana

    ioana Well-Known Member

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    :lol: So those of us who don't like spirals with unpointed toes must be cogs in a YuNa anti-propaganda machine? It couldn't possibly be our preference for the element? I can only speak for myself, but that always makes the move look unfinished in my book. Doesn't mean I don't understand there are things a skater could do well to get good GOE's, like speed, edge quality, ice coverage, difficult transitions, etc. It also doesn't mean I have to like the spiral despite what I perceive to be a shortcoming. And, I enjoy YuNa skating, btw. Just not her spiral sequences.
     
  9. rayhaneh

    rayhaneh New Member

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    I was being slightly sarcastic with that second line ;)

    But again, it is likewise undeniable that there are also those who "propagandize" in favor of Yu-na, and who will try to hammer home to anyone who isn't converted yet why she is such a supreme skater, even if you're just not interested

    (and then most people will actually be in neither camp but somewhere in the middle)

    Both exist. And that is true about most skaters - Yu-na being only a special case in that she has a larger fanbase (and therefore anti-base) than most skaters of her generation

    In a sense, that's rather flattering - that means a lot of people care, one way or another :lol:
     
  10. lowtherlore

    lowtherlore New Member

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    You are over reacting. I wasn't naming you and I said I understand people can have different standards. But I do feel that your quote of my post is taken out of context. That said, there ARE people who are determined to propagandize against Yu-Na. Again, I'm not saying you are one. ;)

    If you are annoyed by her not pointing toes, that's fine.
     
  11. ioana

    ioana Well-Known Member

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    Well, you said people like to propagandize against her and then brought up lack of extension on her spirals as an example just three sentences afterwards. I was just pointing out that's often a personal preference for the skill -you weren't bothered by that, I was- not a pro or anti YuNa stance.
     
  12. lowtherlore

    lowtherlore New Member

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    I agree with most of what you said. :) But propagandizing in favor of Yu-Na? In what sense? By stating that she has such and such good qualities/achievements, or by denying the very existence of her short-comings? I haven’t seen much of the latter by her fans in this forum. The way I see it, her uber fans are rather reserved in gushing over her in international forums.
     
  13. lowtherlore

    lowtherlore New Member

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    I said what you said was true, but simplistic, because I believe there are THOSE in this forum who are determined to criticize her, no matter what she does. About the genuine preference on skating standards and personal tastes, I respect others' opinions including yours.
     
  14. ioana

    ioana Well-Known Member

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    Well, give this a few more weeks (or even days) and you'll have the great pleasure of meeting ubers who are just as annoying as haterz and believe any criticism is an over-the-top personal attack against YuNa. It's not over-simplifying, just being experienced and cynical ;).
     
  15. Jarrett

    Jarrett Well-Known Member

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    Is that a joke when you have been nothing but condescending and insulting in all your responses to the poster?

    Yu-Na was great, still reminds me of Vancouver which isn't a good thing for me personally because I just didn't see a fire. But still it was beautiful and technically so far of everyone else is it almost laughable.
     
  16. lowtherlore

    lowtherlore New Member

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    I seriously doubt it. In most cases, it would be the opposite, believe me. That comes from my experience. ;)
     
  17. ponta1

    ponta1 Active Member

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    It's not unique to Yuna, it happens to all the skaters.
     
  18. lowtherlore

    lowtherlore New Member

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    Here's one who can't wait.
     
  19. rayhaneh

    rayhaneh New Member

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    This is the first time I am on this forum and that she's skating but every other forum I have visited during the Olympics or Worlds 2010 were full of ubers and haters both and their constant wars were one of the reasons I continued to stay away from skating online fora for a while longer :lol:

    I am now waiting to see if I'll need to run for cover or not :D

    Although now that I am looking at the last few posts since yours, I wouldn't call a comment such as "it was beautiful and technically so far of everyone else is it almost laughable." reserved but maybe that's just me *shrug*
     
  20. Loves_Shizuka

    Loves_Shizuka Gettin' my sass out

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    Yu-Na threads NEVER disappoint.
     
  21. lowtherlore

    lowtherlore New Member

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    Oh no, don't run for cover! You'll miss all the fun up to Sochi (or possibly, although unlikely, all the way to PyeongChang). ;)

    Praising her technical proficiency is understandable, isn't it. No need to be reserved in stating the current state of things. BUT IMO so-called yunabots ARE reserved in gushing over her in international forums, and the poster you quoted is not a uber fan I believe.
     
  22. rayhaneh

    rayhaneh New Member

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    Well, that will all depend on how bad fan wars will turn out to be - we'll see soon enough ;)

    I have nothing against stating that she was above the competition at Vancouver. I have nothing against singing the praises of her technicality and other many qualities. But personally, implying that everyone else's level is laughable goes beyond praising her technical proficiency and approches the rather muddy territory of derogatory statement towards the other athletes

    But as I said, we will all have different views on this. I can only share my own
     
  23. lowtherlore

    lowtherlore New Member

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    I understand your saying, although to me it's not clear what the OP meant by "laughable" -- whether to comment on the skaters' abilities or to poke fun at the current state of ladies competition. It IS true the technical contents and performance level of ladies went backwards since Vancouver. Anyway, again I don't believe the OP is a Yu-Na uber.
     
  24. Jarrett

    Jarrett Well-Known Member

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    I'm not an uber or a hater. Any person who looks at the base score sees that yuna is maxing out the jumps. Add that to her GOE. Pretty much untouchable if moderately clean.
     
  25. RoseAugust

    RoseAugust Member

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    I find it really fun to watch such a great jumper. The rest of her skating doesn't impress me quite so much, but the jumps have me smiling big time and if a skater has me smiling at the end of a program, it's all good (for me).
     
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  26. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Épaulement!!!

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    I agree although it didn't occur to me to call it "juniorish" because her jumps are so dazzling. But I know what you mean.
     
  27. kwanatic

    kwanatic Well-Known Member

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    Good for Yu-Na! Very solid technical performance in front of a home crowd and in a freezing rink (from what the reports say).

    I'm not a fan of her programs this year. After having watched them half a dozen times I've given up trying to convince myself I like them. Yu-Na's standards are so high in my mind that these programs just aren't doing it for me. That being said, with her technical content as it is, she doesn't need to have the absolute best program to win this year. With some of the top competitors not stacking triples like in the past, Yu-Na's money jumps are the 3lz-3t, solo 3lz and 3f; those 3 jumping passes right there are enough content to carry her. The other jumping passes will be like icing on the cake...and that's not even counting her SP. If she hits the SP clean she'll probably going into the LP with a 5-7 point lead.

    I wonder if she'll be able to replicate that performance at worlds? If not, like I said, if she can hit those three "money" jumping passes, she'll be in 1st or 2nd place depending on what others do...
     
  28. bardtoob

    bardtoob Well-Known Member

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    I saw emotion in the performance, as if she really liked to skate, but I did not think the choreography was particularly to the music. I think the program would still score very high, although judges are not really supposed to judge emotional connection as part of the choreography. Choreography is element placement, use of the ice, and gestures to the music.

    Somebody said to me that she was only at about 90% at this point in her training, so I'm thinking she only has the element placement and ice usage down, not the gestures to the music . . . which could make all the difference to some.

    ETA: I am not saying you were including emotion as part of the choreography, Aussie.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2013
  29. PUNKPRINCESS

    PUNKPRINCESS New Member

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    Ha.

    My take on it:

    She does not have the best "lines", overall. Her lower-body movement and legs are not the best. To me, they are not awful, but certainly not one of the strengths that set her apart from other high-level skaters. Her upper-body movement is fantastic, though.

    Emotional engagement is somewhere in the middle. I have seen her do more although not quite on the same scale as say, Michelle Kwan. That's fine. She's an emotionally quieter skater. Her jumps do most of the talking, and they are loud.

    It was a very strong skate. I am going to wait to see if her nerves hold up in an international competition with real challengers, and I sure hope they do.

    I am surprised there weren't a ton of posters frothing at the mouth about how un-balletic she is, since that is what I experienced the last time I was here.
     
  30. PUNKPRINCESS

    PUNKPRINCESS New Member

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    Yes, but emotional connection and projection to the audience is part of Performance, if I remember correctly.
     
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