Yuna shines in qualifying for worlds

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sugar, Jan 6, 2013.

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  1. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    Ummm I am not sure the program was meant to be anything than just selection of music from the musical that she was skating to.
  2. RumbleFish

    RumbleFish New Member

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    I agree that while she skated it well, the program was all about her wanting to be pretty and popular. It really doesn't have much to do with the original theme of Les Miserables.
  3. BigB08822

    BigB08822 Well-Known Member

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    Just because you chose music from a well known musical does not mean that you have to interpret the music according to the plot of the musical. I'd rather see someone take the music and give it a fresh interpretation than see someone die on the ice for the 1000th time while skating to Carmen.
  4. TripleWallie

    TripleWallie New Member

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    Wanting to be pretty and popular? LOL! If any program of hers is about being pretty and popular it would be Gershwin Concerto in F or her James Bond SP. She's hardly seducing the crowd here in this program with her sad or pained expressions, or up reaching arm movements. I really don't get how you got that impression from this program. Yuna is pretty and popular, but she doesn't need to be literally dressed in rags and with ugly makeup in order to express the original theme of Les Miserables.
  5. centerstage01

    centerstage01 Well-Known Member

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    *sigh* Let me try this a little more slowly for you.

    In my original post, all I inferred was that YuNa needed to project more to the audience for the entire LP as I felt she was so busy concentrating on the technical but that with more practice, this might not be as much of a problem at Worlds. YOU decided I had no idea what the songs were or what they were even about and that if she was more of an introvert it was because that's what the song was about and she should do a literal interpretation of "On My Own" when I hinted nothing of the sort. At which point I figured you assumed I thought YuNa was doing some smaller retelling of Les Miserables what with taking some obscure portion of my first post and wildly misinterpreting what I said and then getting your underwear in a twist and trying to tell me I don't know anything about the musical at all.

    Oh, and the "other actresses" part: you are aware that Les Miserables has been staged hundreds of times in lots of other locations besides London, right? And that many, many actresses have played the part of Eponine on stage, yes? Now go back and re-read what I said.
  6. Sasha'sSpins

    Sasha'sSpins Well-Known Member

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    I've said this before-Yuna is not playing around! She means to win the Olympics again! If a U.S. skater can't win it (not very likely) then I'll be totally happy if Yuna repeats-and ties Katarina Witt for two-time Olympic Champion. Sonja will still be the Olympic Goddess with her three titles though. :)
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  7. Cheylana

    Cheylana Well-Known Member

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    Wow, Yuna looks fantastic. She makes the triple lutz-triple toe look so easy! :eek:
    Best of luck to her and all the other ladies at Worlds.
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2013
  8. cbd1235

    cbd1235 Active Member

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    Wow Yuna looks damn good! I'll say that she moved me emotionally, but the emotional impact is not at her full potential yet. I'm a sucker for clean performances though ;)

    Can't wait to see her live in London!
  9. shine

    shine Well-Known Member

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    Uh, I'm sorry. But a person is entitled to feel whichever way they do about a program even if they have NEVER listened to the particular music once. Besides, it's not like Les Mis is some arcane piece of work that is only understood by a few or requires some acquired taste of music. The music is pop enough and pretty easy to listen to and the lyrics explains itself so I'm not sure why you had to write a dissertation about it. I find it especially funny that posters feel the need to overanalyse a program which really wasn't meant to be analysed in such details because there really isn't that much stuff in there. Just sit back and enjoy her jumps :p
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2013
  10. bardtoob

    bardtoob Well-Known Member

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    She skated well. The content had high difficulty and quality execution. She was fast, fluid, and had a fair number of transitions. I think the choreography could be better in line with the music, although that could easily be overlooked since she was clearly emotionally committed to the performance.

    This was, by far, the best performance I have seen this season, and makes me think she can easily be on the podium leaning towards 1st or 2nd.

    I have not been a fan in the past, but I saw "it" today.
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  11. Iceman

    Iceman Well-Known Member

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    deleted because duplicate
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2013
  12. Iceman

    Iceman Well-Known Member

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    That is not the way David Wilson works.

    I saw "it" today too Bardtoob.

    I am really at a loss as to the criticism. This is a gift for the season and yet there is so much criticism, ill-founded imo. This performance is head above heels over any skate done by the ladies this season, most of which were marred with falls and popped jumps. For the poster who said this program was juniorish, OMG.
  13. RunnersHigh

    RunnersHigh Active Member

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    Had been to MokDong Ice Rink for the days.

    Actually, the Ice Rink, having sub rink and mainly been used for the hockey, was the coldest rink I'd ever been in domestic and foreign. I'm very healthy, taking regular exercise and winter-hardiness but I shivered with cold and didn't feel any different inside and outside the rink. Sitting 6 hours doing nothing... It's a hard decision to take and clap frozen hands out of my pockets... :cold:

    Skaters waiting their turn to warm up and play also spent hard time, wore a duck-down parka and/or dressed in a layers. Trainers were busy to rub skaters' legs to maintain their body heat.

    Day 1.

    During the warmup, Yuna cleaned 2As and 3Fs with pinpoint accuracy but failed the last 3Lz3T try. Compared with other jumps, Yuna's Lutz needs speed and long entry path before the toe-pick but skaters, young and over-strained by the 5,000 crowds, media and KSU people concerned, practiced so hard and Yuna couldn't find the path through.

    At the 1st try, she landed 3Lz just before the fence, found there're no room to try 3T and stopped on her hands leaning against the fence. Crowds're surprised at the moment but relieved when Yuna showed surprise and smiled archly.
    At the 2nd try, did 3Lz3T cleanly! Her rotation speed were stunning and height were extraordinary!
    At the 3rd try, she tried 3Lz3T in haste cuz there're just less than 10 more secs to the end. She did it but fell after the 3T. Crowds're surprised again but laughed loudly after Yuna stuck her tongue out and squirmed with shyness.

    At the competition, Yuna fell just before stroking the 3Lz3T. I don't know exactly why she fell but my seats're near the place and I saw something odd on the ice, wanted to check again after her performance but missed the chance cuz there're so many flowers and dolls after her performance. Anyway, Yuna said she fell because she got twisted by her own legs.

    She popped 3Lz and didn't try the 2nd triple but did all the choreo and steps before the 3F. So that How could I imagine she would try 3F3T. But she did that! It was the first time in competition since the Worlds 2009 in LA. I knew it's the plan B and she's been doing the combination like 3L. But doing that extemporaneously is well..... I thought 3F2T but what I saw was 3F3T. Crowds including me got crazy after the combination.

    As you all may knows, Yuna's strength is she knows what she has to do after the mistakes. Yeah! She did focus and do her best in every component remained and scored 64.97 points to rank first after the short program.

    Day 2.

    During the warmup, Yuna again showed how well she had been prepared but there's a fly in the ointment she fell after 3Lz3T. The later, she hit the combination proudly.

    At the competition, it was as perfect as her Olympic FS. Wanna nitpick at the performance? Yeah suit yourself but it was the 3rd time I, man at age 40, cried at the ice rink - Adam Rippon's FS at 4CC, Yuna Kim's SP at NRW and FS at Korean national (((RunnersHigh))))

    Anyway, right after the 2A and during the CCoSp, the last component of her Free Skating, crowds kept doing clap and applaud and many already stood up and gave a standing ovation.

    Right after the performance, I expected 144 (NRW's 129 + 10 in TES + 5 in PCS ) but traditionally, Korean National Figure Skating Championships has been notorious to fan for its poor scores to skaters so that I expected about 138 but.. it was 145! :kickass:

    Episodes

    • It was the first time for KSU to sell the tickets for the National.
    • According to the KSU, all 4,800 ticktes were sold out within minutes.
    • National Figure Skating Championships were broadcasted for the first time and Free Skating was carried *LIVE* from public TV network. - Ranked #1 in ratings with 7.4%.
    • A judge received a blow to the head with dolls - Some of them were as big and heavy as I am... She stared at crowds. ;)
    • There're waiting line for the fan who couldn't get the ticket in front of the ticket booth. They hold banner reading "Skating fan for the tix." Fans or skaters' family with extra ticket donated or sold the tix at the original price. One who got a ticket handed the banner to the other next. And most of them could enter the rink. (It was such a good idea!!! And made scalpers around disappointed and leaved in peace cuz they couldn't buy or sell any.)
    • Jin-seo Kim gave fans, waiting Yuna outside the rink, cups of coffee. :lol:
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2013
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  14. mineko

    mineko New Member

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    ^ Thanks for the great report. :)
  15. 4rkidz

    4rkidz GPF Barcelona here I come

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    thanks for the link, well I am very impressed by Yuna, a great program and I loved the music - she really hasn't missed a beat with her level of skating upon her return, will make for a very tough ladies field at worlds :)
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  16. RumbleFish

    RumbleFish New Member

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    She probably chose the program to jump on the Les Miserables bandwagon. I don't see anything in her performance that relates with the original. Anyone who seriously enjoyed Hugo's novel or watched the musical would agree with this. Please take a step back and listen to all the posters who don't really appreciate the program.
  17. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Port de bras!!!

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    I too thought that while the jumps were amazing, strong, textbook, she was completely un-engaged emotionally. And frankly, looked awkward at times, particularly during the final footwork at 4:11 on the youtube video, whatever she was doing looked unattractive.
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  18. l'etoile

    l'etoile New Member

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    Great job, Yuna!

    Well people are "entitled" to their opinions and if team Yuna sees something to be done, they'll do that just right. What an amazing performance! If she can do this at Worlds again, wow. This season, many of favorite programs are from the ladies. Mao's Swan Lake, Ashley's Red Violin and LP, and now both of Yuna's programs! Imagine, how wonderful and blessing it would be if these ladies all deliver their true abilities at worlds:swoon:
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  19. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    Well that would be me that said that and whilst you may have seen it one way, I saw it a different way. The program technically was brilliant - fantastic jumps. But choreographically was not the same standard. There was some working with the phrasing of the music but it lacked refinement in the moves or connection to the music. And I was not getting much emotion being put out there. There was not much variety in the types of moves or gestures presented by the skater. From my judging eye, it did appear juniorish. However she has only performed it twice in competition. Programs do take time to develop and have to be worked in. Skaters sometimes have to learn to connect to the music and find their way through it. At worlds it may be on a totally different level.
  20. Keftiu

    Keftiu New Member

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    She is still the best in this figure skating world!
    Now, I live in the US but I watched Yuna's LP, Les miserables, with live broadcast. Yes, I could not help watching her and the most fabulous program in this season, although there is a 14-hour time difference between Seoul and my place. Yes, yes, yes! It was worth staying all night because her performance was mesmerizing! :swoon: To tell the truth, when I saw Yuna's Olympic LP, I thought there would be no performance that could surpass that. But Yuna came back with her stunning program, Homage to Korea, and I could not but to admit that there would be no limit in her brilliant and elegant artistry. Now, I am falling in love with this, Les Miserable, and to me, prospects for her next season have already started. I really really really envy the people seeing her amazing and touching performance with their own eyes.
  21. os168

    os168 Active Member

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    If such is the case why bother have any music interpretation at all?

    This particular music edit of Les Miserable is intricate and heavily edit with much care and attention. It is not some random piece of music plonked one after the other following any linear story line like some typical faithful adaptations. There are meaning and purpose behind the music reconstruct on at a meta level including prototyping and reshaping music epic to follow certain creative directions from the team. Otherwise they could have just picked a famous song like 'I dream a dream', romanticise the heck out of it and that would be end of it. Why make their own lives more complicated?

    Can you get anymore condescending or insulting?

    Disagree 100% projection is the only way to perform ANY live performances, and certainly not for the 'On My Own' section of the program. Reason explained already. What made that piece of music spoke to people is because of its internal monologue qualities. In all the stage directions I have seen, it was never about the actress projection outwards but more demand the audience projecting inwards as if they are eave dropping on something quietly intimate, deeply personal and painful. If other 'hundreds' of Eponine/actresses sang to the audience and made eye contact as if she is happily and willingly sharing her most intimate moment and pushing the idea of inviting sympathy down the audience's throats, then clearly they are doing a VERY poor job, and harms the integrity of the character of Eponine, given the meaning of the song is selflessly giving and not expect any receiving. Les Mis started in London more than 27 years ago, it is the musical that launched hundreds of other musicals in London Westend and around the world. It is certainly the musical that made me fell in love with live theatre, so yeah I am very protective of it, more than any other B productions out there at village halls or high school plays which frankly I don't give a toss.

    In anycase, a nitpicker is a nitpicker, how about go nit picking somewhere else and leave my underwear out of it! (I can't believe I am typing this on a Monday morning WTH?!)


    Sure anyone is entitled to feel and believe what they feel and believe, just don't be surprised there are others who disagrees because they are better informed. Bach was pop, Strauss was Pop, Tchaikovsky was pop during their days, what is your point here? Les Miserable is quality music and it will last well beyond next centuries just like Bizet's Carmen easily. In any case my 'dissertation' (what university did you go to warrant such a short dissertation?) was to martyross because I know he has the propensity to appreciate a healthy discussion on artistry beyond the obvious, and speculate over the creativity decisions that can elevate certain skating programs beyond COP parameters. To be open minded enough to have a sound discussion without taking things personally, and be sensitive and considered enough not to see everything in black and white at a reductionist COP level. I find funny given this suppose to be s a figure skating board that is suppose to celebrate good figure skating, yet it doesn't seem to welcome much analysis to what would constitute towards a longevity and credibility of great program beyond the 'I don't like it because she is not wearing white boots which I really lurrrve' variety.

    Overanalyse things? How about not analyse them enough to improve the quality of artistry output, which explains the state of this sport and its inability to rise beyond its status quo? It is about changing assumptions that 100% full on emotional projection automatically equals best presentation without considering of the the meaning and purpose behind the music and art direction which they are projecting. Music is not meaningless complementary noises there to garnish choreography movements designed for attractive COP number crunching .

    If such is true, then Morozov must be God here ... *shudders* wait.. on that thought - I am outta here!
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2013
  22. orientalplane

    orientalplane Mad for mangelwurzels

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    I meant it absolutely. :)
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  23. lowtherlore

    lowtherlore New Member

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    They WON"T appreciate no matter what she does. If Yu-Na/Wilson picked one phase of the novel/musical, and did an in-depth interpretation of that specific sub-theme, they WILL complain on and on about her failure in portraying the overall or comprehensive impression/atmosphere of the subject matter.

    The way I see it, it's them who need to step back and view her performance in a broad perspective. It's significance/influence to the current state of ladies, let alone being another of Yu-Na's own memorable performance, this time monumental in the sense that it was done before the home fans in what could be her final competition at home, domestic or international.

    She and D Wilson came up with two beautiful programs, IMO better than anyone else's in this season.

    Fixed-angle fancam of Yu-Na's FS from a far-side top deck, showing the entire rink
    It shows well her speed and coverage. The latter scene is reminiscent of the Michelle Kwan moment at 2004(?) US Nationals.
  24. Iceman

    Iceman Well-Known Member

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    No one has criticized her wearing her boots covered yet!!!!!:D:rolleyes:;)
  25. jatale

    jatale New Member

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    People predisposed to dislike a skater, no matter what the reason, will always see what they "want" to see - that is the way the human mind works. You hear and see what you desire to hear and see. This applies to any form of art. In order to fairly evaluate any ice-skating performance, you have to place your mind in a totally open frame of reference, all fan allegiances fall away, you relax, you let the music and performance enter your mind and let your soul openly experience it. This is EXTREMELY hard to do, often we purposely look for some flaw or anything that will satisfy our predispositions, and this leads to bias in our evaluations. It is sad but true, and we are all guilty of it. Hopefully, ISU skating judges try hard to be objective - that is their professional duty - but I'm sure many of them let predispositions interfere sometimes.
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  26. rayhaneh

    rayhaneh New Member

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    And people predisposed to like a skater will do exactly the same.....:shuffle:

    So in the greater scheme of things, it all balances out :D
  27. lowtherlore

    lowtherlore New Member

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    That’s true, but simplistic at the same time. ;) One can’t deny there are those who like to propagandize against Yu-Na, all the time, for whatever reason they can come up with, over and over again.

    I understand that some fans can be genuinely predisposed to dislike her for whatever reason/taste. But they need to be at least fair. For example, some people typically nitpick on her layback, spiral, lines, toes, etc. IMO her laybacks and spirals are excellent. As for the layback, her upper body is very flexible and you don’t see too many ladies goes that far with her back (not side-way) and spin as fast and centered. About the spiral, her positions, edges, control and speed are all excellent. Some might complain her free leg not extended or high enough, but I like the way she hold her dignity by keeping her shoulder, neck and head straightened up throughout, and her extension is fine, except for the toe.

    Her lines and arms too are excellent, ever since her beginning as a junior skater. I also hear them complaining about her not being “balletic” enough. Yu-Na once said (some years ago), “Figure skating and ballet are not the same, are they?” I totally agree with her. The influence of classical music and ballet on figure skating can’t be downplayed. But it’s becoming more and more banalized, and the ladies' programs to balletic music usually show juvenile level ballet moves. Who would be interested in that? Skating fans? Ballet fans? IMO this sport, especially the ladies skating, needs to extend its boundary to incorporate new themes, routines and new performance and athletic (speed, control, et al) standards. I believe Yu-Na has already contributed much to that end. IMO the ladies figure skating can be popular again, and she showed the way.
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2013
  28. ioana

    ioana Well-Known Member

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    :lol: So those of us who don't like spirals with unpointed toes must be cogs in a YuNa anti-propaganda machine? It couldn't possibly be our preference for the element? I can only speak for myself, but that always makes the move look unfinished in my book. Doesn't mean I don't understand there are things a skater could do well to get good GOE's, like speed, edge quality, ice coverage, difficult transitions, etc. It also doesn't mean I have to like the spiral despite what I perceive to be a shortcoming. And, I enjoy YuNa skating, btw. Just not her spiral sequences.
  29. rayhaneh

    rayhaneh New Member

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    I was being slightly sarcastic with that second line ;)

    But again, it is likewise undeniable that there are also those who "propagandize" in favor of Yu-na, and who will try to hammer home to anyone who isn't converted yet why she is such a supreme skater, even if you're just not interested

    (and then most people will actually be in neither camp but somewhere in the middle)

    Both exist. And that is true about most skaters - Yu-na being only a special case in that she has a larger fanbase (and therefore anti-base) than most skaters of her generation

    In a sense, that's rather flattering - that means a lot of people care, one way or another :lol:
  30. lowtherlore

    lowtherlore New Member

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    You are over reacting. I wasn't naming you and I said I understand people can have different standards. But I do feel that your quote of my post is taken out of context. That said, there ARE people who are determined to propagandize against Yu-Na. Again, I'm not saying you are one. ;)

    If you are annoyed by her not pointing toes, that's fine.
  31. ioana

    ioana Well-Known Member

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    Well, you said people like to propagandize against her and then brought up lack of extension on her spirals as an example just three sentences afterwards. I was just pointing out that's often a personal preference for the skill -you weren't bothered by that, I was- not a pro or anti YuNa stance.
  32. lowtherlore

    lowtherlore New Member

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    I agree with most of what you said. :) But propagandizing in favor of Yu-Na? In what sense? By stating that she has such and such good qualities/achievements, or by denying the very existence of her short-comings? I haven’t seen much of the latter by her fans in this forum. The way I see it, her uber fans are rather reserved in gushing over her in international forums.
  33. lowtherlore

    lowtherlore New Member

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    I said what you said was true, but simplistic, because I believe there are THOSE in this forum who are determined to criticize her, no matter what she does. About the genuine preference on skating standards and personal tastes, I respect others' opinions including yours.
  34. ioana

    ioana Well-Known Member

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    Well, give this a few more weeks (or even days) and you'll have the great pleasure of meeting ubers who are just as annoying as haterz and believe any criticism is an over-the-top personal attack against YuNa. It's not over-simplifying, just being experienced and cynical ;).
  35. Jarrett

    Jarrett Well-Known Member

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    Is that a joke when you have been nothing but condescending and insulting in all your responses to the poster?

    Yu-Na was great, still reminds me of Vancouver which isn't a good thing for me personally because I just didn't see a fire. But still it was beautiful and technically so far of everyone else is it almost laughable.
  36. lowtherlore

    lowtherlore New Member

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    I seriously doubt it. In most cases, it would be the opposite, believe me. That comes from my experience. ;)
  37. ponta1

    ponta1 New Member

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    It's not unique to Yuna, it happens to all the skaters.
  38. lowtherlore

    lowtherlore New Member

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    Here's one who can't wait.
  39. rayhaneh

    rayhaneh New Member

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    This is the first time I am on this forum and that she's skating but every other forum I have visited during the Olympics or Worlds 2010 were full of ubers and haters both and their constant wars were one of the reasons I continued to stay away from skating online fora for a while longer :lol:

    I am now waiting to see if I'll need to run for cover or not :D

    Although now that I am looking at the last few posts since yours, I wouldn't call a comment such as "it was beautiful and technically so far of everyone else is it almost laughable." reserved but maybe that's just me *shrug*
  40. Loves_Shizuka

    Loves_Shizuka Well-Known Member

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    Yu-Na threads NEVER disappoint.
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