Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Blair, Sep 6, 2010.
Basically, it's his way or the highway. Why would he even consider coaching her?
Carroll took Kostner while he was coaching Nagasu. He would certainly give it a thought if he received an offer. But in the end I think Arutunian should be it considering his style of coaching I (think I) know of. Besides, he lives not too far from LA; Yuna seems to like LA a lot with a firm support base from the large Korean community and all.
Frank Caroll has so many students now. Didn't Yuna's team want someone who can devote a lot of time to her? I don't think it can work out well with Caroll being even busier than Orser.
Wow. Overachieving? Nobody wanted to sign his since he was not very entertaining? I'm sorry you have such a low appreciation for such a great champion, and possibly the finest triple axel ever.
Maybe I'll have to eat the following words someday but I REALLY don't think Frank Carroll is a consideration. I don't think she's going to compete this year so I wouldn't waste time guessing who it´ll be. In a month or so she´ll name someone from Kwans rink as a coach and just coast for a while.
Kim mentions training in LA for a time when she was young. Who did she work with then?
Summer skating camp. According to her book, she went to her first summer camp in LA when she was 3rd grade. Next year, she went to IceCastle and saw Kwan first time at the restroom.
I remember reading that. It was funny how she described it and adorable at the same time. Obviously she was star struck when she saw Michelle.
I agree BittyBug. I've never been a fan of the "overachieving" theories either. I didn't see any shady judging at all when Urmanov won Olympic gold. Alexei easily and deservingly won the SP and I believe he did enough to deserve to win the LP too with the only glaring mistake being a step out of a 3flip. It's not his fault that Stojko singled a 3Axel and lacked his attention to choreography and musicality. It's not his fault that Candeloro fell on a 3Axel and lacked his attention to body line and skating skills. It's not his fault that all the veteran favorites Petrenko, Browning, and Boitano all crumbled in their SPs leaving them buried in the pack in desperation to crawl up in the LP standings. As for the entertainment comment, there have been and are plenty of skaters who get signed on to shows whom I don't find entertaining. One person's treasure is another person's trash I guess. I don't think it's accurate to say that's why a skater didn't get signed to do a show unless you have undeniable evidence to support such a statement. Urmanov may have decided to decline touring in one part of the world so that he could tour closer to home to be with family and friends. Unless you're him, his agent, or someone close to him, you really don't know the true reasons.
Kim and Kwan should get along just fine. Two of a kind.
Kim has been criticized (rightly so, IMO) for her treatment of Orser, when she (and/or STS) decided to end the coaching relationship. Similar behaviour has been observed in Kwan.
At a reception a few years ago, one of my was having a conversation at a reception with a well-known coach that knew quite well. Kwan waltzes up and interrupts the conversation *in mid-sentence*. She didn't have the courtesy to wait a few seconds for a pause, or say "excuse me" and enter the conversation. It was as if the person conversing with the coach was invisible, and that she expected the coach (not hers) to immediately pay attention to *Her*. Incredibly rude, and self-entitled behaviour, and absolutely no excuse for it.
Now, there was no media or other people nearby to capture/witness this behaviour. All skaters are gracious when they know they are being observed. But you get insight into someone's true character when the spotlight is "off". [I remember someone posting a few years ago about how gentle and kind Kurt Browning was to a child who had a gift for him when no one else was around.]
When I heard about this, it struck me that all of the "Kween" b.s. had clearly gone to Kwan's head. Let's hope that she has acquired some polish as a result of the diplomacy work she is supposedly doing since then-manners like that won't cut it at an embassy parties. [And yes, Kwan was an *adult* when this occurred and old enough to know better- she was no longer skating competitively.]
An interesting comment was made in the attached article about the underlying cause of the rift between Kim's camp and Orser.
You notice I didn't say between Kim and Orser, because I think that YuNa would have understood the comment and its context. IMO ot is Mi Hee that would not have the wherewithall to do so and would not have the concept of personal space from everything that I heard and read.
"A theory posed by another source attributes the trouble to possible cultural and communication issues.
"Brian said he and Tracy (Wilson) wanted to give Yu Na 'space' after the Olympics to decide what she wanted to do. Perhaps that was interpreted as disinterest by Mi Hee," the source stated. "Brian seems to be truly baffled by all of this and he has always been completely honest with me, hence my suspicion that cultural differences, communication nuances somehow played a role."
"Mommy" within her culturally-based frame of reference, her prejudices and pre-conceived notions derailed what was an excellent and fruitful partnership between YuNa Kim and Brian Orser and it is a shame. So much for your mother being your agent.
Wow, you seem to know quite a lot about Kwan's personality and character based on one second-hand report of one single interaction.
Don't forget the chicken dance, or did you not consider that a choreographic mistake ?
Umm. . . OK. . . There could be many reasons why that happened. I know I've done that before when I was in a hurry and really focused on something, and I always kicked myself for it later when someone pointed it out. I have been on practice sessions with Michelle at least 3 times (both before and after her unofficial retirement) and have also chatted with her several times off the ice with no media or VIP present. She was personable, respectful and sweet, even though I was nobody "important."
I agree. I really don't think its fair to make huge character judgements about a person just because of one incident where perhaps they didn't show "completely correct manners" You don't know there could have been things going on in her heard/mind at that incident and she didn't realize what she was doing.
I highly doubt that all of us 100% of the time have always displayed correct behavior in everything. The difference is most of us aren't public figures where that can be held against us.
Michelle has a good reputation for being quite sweet and nice (and I'm not an uber) But she's not a perfect person 100% of the time.
Thank you, sk9tingfan, for the link and I think his article have a glitch here and there again. (I mean this is not the first time. )
AFAIK Tracy Wilson took on the duties of developing Kim’s stroking skills, expression and all-round skating quality. Not a choreographer. And not a coach since then.
What meeting?? and That's not what Yu-Na claimed out of her own mouth..
Thanks for your post. Reasonable theory. But:
I don't understand why he thought she needed the SPACE. She already made up her mind to compete. Apparently, YuNa and her mom didn't think so. Did he discuss about it with them? Apparently not. Probably, YuNa and mom had no idea what he meant by SPACE.
Didn't Yuna take a little while after the Olympics (actually the Worlds) to make her decision to continue? I would guess that Brian prpobably didn't want influence her decision in any way, so he wanted give her space (and time).
Her decision was already made when she returned to Toronto.
Did Brian & Yuna+Mom not sit down after Worlds together and determine what the next step would be? Either Yu-Na was going to return to Toronto in the near future to train, or she was going to go to Korea, make appearances, and Brian was going to give her "space". Why would this be so confusing for Yuna's mom? I can't get over all the alleged communication problems between these people... You would think they had just started working with each other or something. Crazy.
YuNa returned to Toronto to train. Then, why did he give her "space"? It is confusing to me. Doesn't make sense.
Geesh, what a sad thing to hear that YuNa won't be working with Orser anymore. I kind of feel like moving to LA will be a step in the wrong direction, but perhaps YuNa just feels kind of lonely without culturally similar people to talk to or something?
I have a feeling Frank is too busy with all of his own skaters to take another one up. YuNa probably won't be having a very good season this year because of the sudden change of coach and the move. I mean, the Grand Prix is going to start real soon isn't it? Not much time to prepare a new routine and everything.
Yu-na's already announced she's not doing the GP this season. She's supposedly just doing worlds. I think there's time to find a coach, I'm just not 100% convinced she really wants to continue competiting, to be quite frank.
The article said that Brian (and Tracy) wanted give her "space" after the Olympics. I understand that Yuna returned Toronto to train, but didn't she spend some time in Korea after the Olympics/Worlds? I don't think she announced to stay eligible right after the Olympics. I think Brian was talking about the time between the Olympics and her return to Toronto.
No, he was talking abot June and July, when YuNa had to practice by herself.
I hope Yu-Na turns up at Worlds, not only because I'd like to see her new programs, but also because it would be kind of a shame to see her end her amateur career on this note.
For her to return to the stage after the dust has settled, and to skate off it, as it were (if that is what she chooses), is something that I would like to see.
I mean, maybe the comparison is not a very good one, but I really admired the way Sasha tried to make a come back. I loved her SP at Nationals, and then of course too bad about her LP and her injury, but just the fact that she did that, it was so apparent that she loved to skate, she loved to compete, and that was very beautiful to see.
Vancouver: Feb 20 ~ Mar 01 (OWG 2010)
Korea: Mar 02 ~ 03 With Brian Orser
Toronto: Mar 04 ~ 22
Oh... I didn't know that Yuna had decided to return to competitive skating a few days after the Olympics. So, when she returned to Toronto on Mar. 4th, she had already decided that she would return to competitive skating, as lakewood said? If that's the case, I understand lakewood feeling strange about Brian's comment about giving Yuna "space" after the Olympics.
No, sorry. After the Worlds she came back to Korea and spent a month and left for Toronto on May 31, when she said in the airport she would compete. So, it would be reasonable to assume that she was ready to practice. However, in Toronto, she had to practice by herself in June and July. Orser's explanation was that he gave her "space", but apparently YuNa and mom didn't think so. Possibly, they thought YuNa was neglected. We don't know exactly what happened in June and July. My question is why Orser gave YuNa "space" that she didn't want.
Phil Hersh is going on record that he believes that neither YuNa nor Evan will return to competition. Let's see if Uncle Phil has his head on straight!