Yuna Kim announces new programs for 2013-14 season

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sylvia, Aug 26, 2013.

  1. Robeye

    Robeye Curiously curious

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    *Sigh* Why do figure skating fans, among all sports fans, believe with such frightening conviction that they can read other people's minds?

    Unless one is an Operating Thetan and Tom Cruise's next designated bride...
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  2. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Port de bras!!!

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    I read the post previous to this as that Yuna looked tired and muscling it out. Surely, one can usually tell if a skater is tired/low energy. This doesn't involve mind reading.
  3. Robeye

    Robeye Curiously curious

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    "YuNa looks like she is doing everything she can to get through that program. She looks like she doesn't have the stamina. She also looks like she is mustering everything in her to compete and that underneath she is miserable. I thing she is competing out of loyalty to her country and it is taking everything she has to do it. I admire her loyalty, but it looks to me like she is paying a high price."


    This is not the first time that you have demonstrated eccentrically selective reading skills. It's actually somewhat unnerving in a self-described healthcare professional.
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  4. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Port de bras!!!

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    You don't think there's pressure from the Korean fed? Have you not been following this sport and information on Yuna over the last few seasons?

    As to the rest, FU. If you only knew how poor your timing is with your idiotic comment.
  5. Robeye

    Robeye Curiously curious

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    -Of course the Korean Fed has expectations. Every national Fed does. How does this demonstrate that she is driven by loyalty and miserable because of it?

    -I dislike losing my temper. That you boldly declared black to be white made me do so. If there are circumstances which made my admittedly sarcastic response hurtful, I can only say that it was meant to convey a sharp, snarky point, nothing more.

    -Perhaps you ought to stop commenting on my posts for a while? I will reciprocate.
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2013
  6. bek

    bek Guest

    Personally, I doubt her federation has much to hang over Kim's head. She's a multi millionaire. And its not like they have other female figure skaters to promote over her.

    I think if there's people pressuring her its familial and sponsors.

    Now I think Kim herself feels some responsibility to help promote Korean figure skating, given how many skaters she supports. Something I give her credit for.

    In terms of whether she's happy or not, I kind of agree that we don't know her mind. I've noticed she didn't seem as excited about her worlds win as previous..But she may be use to it.

    This skate in general makes me think maybe she really is in recovery from an injury.

    As for her unhappiness about her skate. Of course Kim would be unhappy with that free.
  7. kathy sullivan

    kathy sullivan Well-Known Member

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    YuNa has very respectfully spoken of The fact that she chose to compete to help her country -and has said that is more of her goal than winning gold personally. I wasn't reading minds on that note. I like and respect YuNa a lot -but she doesn't look like there is much personal joy. She strikes me as very loyal and respectful and like she is carrying a heavy load for her country. I just think that is very hard to do. And she looks burdened and like its taking a toll - could be wrong.
  8. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Port de bras!!!

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    I picked up on the lack of joy last Worlds. It's likely hard to get the same excitement and drive after you've conquered every height in this sport and won every medal. I am such an amazing mind reader, go me.

    And I've been reading here about some of the motivations behind Yuna's comeback, as you mentioned kathy sullivan, for her country. It's really not the same as skating for yourself, because you love it so much. That said, if Yuna recovers enough to put down 2 clean performances, the 2nd OGM is very likely hers. And I love her LP dress.
  9. kathy sullivan

    kathy sullivan Well-Known Member

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    ITA
  10. Robeye

    Robeye Curiously curious

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    You are certainly right that Yuna has spoken about her commitment to help foster the further development of Korean skating. My point is that, even just on the basis of personal introspection, it should be clear to all of us that people can have a multiplicity of motivations and incentives, usually at the same time. I know it's certainly true of me. I work to monetarily benefit myself, but also because I want to take care of those close to me, and also because I seek to enjoy and find fulfillment in what I do. That fulfillment might, I hope, encompass community and societal goals that I believe in as well.

    It's certainly possible that Yuna was fatigued at Golden Spin. But there are many possible explanations for this. The one that she herself has offered, both prior to, during, and after the competition, is the fact that she is not yet at peak physical condition, including both her injured foot and her stamina, and therefore was somewhat concerned and cautious. Given these statements, Occam's Razor would lead me to believe that this is the main cause of her current fatigue. At the very least, however, the evidence that the fatigue is primarily a result of mental stress due to an unwilling compliance to duty is not compellingly obvious, in my view.

    I don't have an issue in saying that "loyalty" is a motive for Yuna. I agree that there is good evidence that it is. It is also a motive for other skaters, including Ashley "Three Spots" Wagner. But I strongly disagree that there is anywhere near sufficent reason to believe that she is somehow different from the vast majority of the human race, at least in the developed world, in holding this as her sole, or even primary, motivation. It makes her sound like some obedient beast of burden with no strong will or goals of her own making. There is almost something orientalist about this which I object to. I have been an expat in several Asian and European countries for extended periods, and my personal experience tells me that modern Asian women will not act in such a docile or compliant manner if they can help it, especially, as bek has pointed out, if they have the independent means, fame, prestige, and other levers of power that Yuna possesses.

    I appreciate the reasonable tone of your explanation, so I hope I am also equally clear in my views.
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2013
  11. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Port de bras!!!

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    It's just as reasonable to suggest that after winning every prestigious event and taking a break, motivation could be not quite what it was. It is widely known how difficult comebacks are, both physically and psychologically. Combined with Yuna's lack of excitement at Worlds last season, perceived by several posters here, it's just as compliant with Occam's Razor to posit that she may not have the same fire in her belly as she did in 2010. Someone who already has it all in spades, in prestige, fame and fortune but most importantly, in highest achievements given in their field, the hunger is likely to diminish. On top of that she is struggling with an injury.

    As to suggestion of orientalist prejudice: plenty of skaters are pressured into competing by outside forces (not themselves), regardless of background. That's not exactly a new phenomenon.
  12. Eladola

    Eladola Active Member

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    My first reaction to this was to agree and move on,
    Yuna is unbeatable and the best etc.

    But then i realised :
    a) That was only her second world win
    b) She lost worlds 4 times, That's double her wins
    c) She hasn't won a major competition since the 2010 Olympics, or any competition at all (Apart from Korean nationals)
    d) she had a dicey SP score

    She may have the highest skills and scores, But i'm not sure if she's "Used" to winning,
    She may have been to the highest highs, But statistically she's beatable,

    So maybe it was something else other than being used to it
  13. bek

    bek Guest

    When I meant use to it, I meant she's won the titles in the past. Yes I don't see the same excitement from Kim, with scores etc. However, I also saw a much calmer Kim last year. She looked in command of herself and almost was skating with a "I have nothing to lose."

    Kim stated in interviews that she's not going to let anyone put the type of pressure on herself that they put on her in the lead up to Vancover. So maybe part of the way she does that is by carrying the attitude of the rest is gravy.

    In general though I don't find it a big deal if she is mainly motivated in helping her country. I think its frankly admirable that she does care about promoting skating in Korea. I give her credit for showing up at worlds last year and helping earn spots. Instead of just showing up at the Olympics like several former champs have done.

    I have a hard time thinking though that Kim wouldn't want a Second Olympic Gold medal. It would be a huge accomplishment few ladies have done.
  14. mr1006

    mr1006 New Member

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    She won her second world title after Vancouver.

  15. Eladola

    Eladola Active Member

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    I'm pretty sure Asada won that title ;)

    In fact, Kim had to (barely) win the FS just to climb to second from an earlier group
  16. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

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    2013 World Champion, Yuna Kim. She did lose in 2010 and 2011 Worlds.
  17. bek

    bek Guest

    You said she hasn't won a major title since the 2010 Olympics, I would consider the 2013 world title a major one. And she's only been to three World Competitions since the Olympics ended and has medaled every time. No other skater can state they've medaled at not only every worlds but ever competition they've ever been in.
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  18. Robeye

    Robeye Curiously curious

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    1) Fake London. I will say no more.

    2) In her Senior International career (not including Senior B and Nationals), Yuna has won something like 14 out of 20 events, or around 70%, IIRC. By way of contrast, her closest contemporary, Mao, has won 19 out of 39, if I'm counting right, or around 49%. If Yuna does not have the highest winning percentage in what is roughly the post-Janet "modern" era, I'd like to know who does. Here is a quick and dirty sampling of a few of the most prominent skaters:

    Yuna Kim: 14/20, 70%
    Mao Asada: 19/39, 49%
    Michelle Kwan: 18/36, 50% (not including Goodwill games in this analysis, which would have slightly brought down her average, anyway)
    Irina Slutskaya: 26/56, 46%
    Kristi Yamaguchi: 6/13, 46%
    Katarina Witt: 16/28, 57%
    Dorothy Hamill: 2/6, 33% (no GPs, only Olympics and Worlds. Dorothy's time is arguably "pre-modern", in terms of competitive structure. If one adds in the US championships as a kind of very crude compensation, her record would be a more normative 5/12, 42%).

    As a general observation, even the most prominent champions have only won about half of their Senior outings. Katarina Witt, with her legendary, ferocious will to win, is the only other skater among this very select group much above the 50% mark. No matter what happens in Sochi, Yuna will retire with by far the highest winning percentage of modern times.

    So, yeah, I would say that Yuna is used to winning.


    (Note: I think the numbers are pretty accurate, but were done fairly casually. If anyone feels there are egregious errors, comments are certainly welcome)
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2013
  19. EricRohmer

    EricRohmer New Member

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    Because I heard that at LP dress rehearsal Yuna's condition looked not-good, I was relieved Yuna LP ended with 1 fall. :) Yesterday I was really worring.
    I wish Yuna good health and good condition-building up to Sochi.
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2013
  20. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    Re-posting from the Golden Spin thread in Kiss and Cry:
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  21. Jammers

    Jammers Well-Known Member

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    Yuna needs at least one more competition and probably 2 before Sochi to start feeling like she's ready to defend her Olympic title. She especially needs it to build up her stamina. If this is going to be her only event before Sochi it's ill advised no matter how good she is.
  22. museksk8r

    museksk8r Holding an edge and looking dangerously sexy

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    I'm not a fan of her programs or costumes, both last season and this season. Everything just appears too bland and not Olympic worthy for my tastes. There is no fire in her this Olympic cycle. Her programs look the same and she doesn't bring enough emotion into her performances. There is no variety in her movement or choreography. She seems detached from the programs and from the audience.
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  23. Robeye

    Robeye Curiously curious

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    I agree, that would be how I would play it as well, but I'm sure she doesn't need my advice. ;)
  24. Eladola

    Eladola Active Member

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    I kinda meant till the 2013 worlds, Seeing we talked about her reaction at that event, And whether she only went to a couple worlds since then is beside the point, She still hasn't won a major event since Olympics, She basically just missed one worlds since .

    I'm open to the possibility she was just used to it, Seeing i thought the same thing myself,
    My only point was my misconception of her beatability.

    I don't understand "Fake London" :) can u clarify ?

    And yes, she does win a lot, But i thought we were talking about major events, That percentage would be a bit different all around .

    I didn't get into the whole "Reputation" thing yet, But i don't feel this comment is either offensive or inaccurate,
    So it's beyond me why people would be that passionate to slap me with red ones over it .

    Maybe it sounds like i'm upset when i write,
    I'm not
    I'm always calm, Always smiling and usually humorous ;)

    I'm obsessed with Yuna,
    Still want Mao to bag this one though :(
    Then again, My dream podium would also have Kostner and Wagner on it :\
  25. bek

    bek Guest

    Kim only competed in three major events since Vancover....She actually has more world medals than Asada even though Asada's been at more worlds.
  26. Eladola

    Eladola Active Member

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    She has the same amount of victories, And we were talking about those (though i wasn't going for a competition),
    And again, My point was she didn't have a winning moment (that mattered, in skating) since olympics, Doesn't matter how much she competed
  27. Robeye

    Robeye Curiously curious

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    Eladola, I'm going to assume you are not a troll, and simply just don't know.

    "Fake" London, Ontario, is where last year's World Championships were held. After a break of almost two years, Yuna, with only a couple of minor event warm-ups, did a Tunguska on the ladies field, winning Gold by over 20 points over Caro and Mao. Yuna was not only essentially clean in both programs, but her Free Skate, scoring over 148, is considered by many to be one of the greatest competitive performances of all time.

    If you didn't know this, forgive me for being just a tad skeptical about the weight of your opinions on the topic at hand. I'm not trying to be offensive; it is genuine puzzlement.
  28. Eladola

    Eladola Active Member

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    Are you for real ?

    Nevermind,
    Why did you write "Fake London, i'll say no more" as a response to my former post, I didn't what was your point
  29. bek

    bek Guest

    And we keep on pointing out she did. She's the reigning world champion. That's a winning moment.
  30. Eladola

    Eladola Active Member

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    That's a troll if there ever was one .
    I'm putting an end to this, It's bothering the thread now
  31. TripleWallie

    TripleWallie New Member

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    Worlds 2013 was not a winning moment that mattered in skating?! :eek: Holy cow.

    So skating last of the entire Worlds competition, after a long break since Vancouver, and going 100% clean with the crowd going wild at the end and nearly matching her Vancouver LP score of 150. This was not a winning moment, a moment that mattered in skating?
  32. Eladola

    Eladola Active Member

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    Triplewallie, This conversation started because we were talking about her reaction after the FS at worlds 2013.
    Up until that point, She didn't.

    Holy cow

    For your convenience, here is what i originally responded to

  33. Robeye

    Robeye Curiously curious

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    Eladola, based on the last few posts, I am now suspecting that there is a huge disconnect between what many posters (including me) seem to understand you to have said, and what you think you said.

    It may be a language issue, but I still can't figure out what you think you're trying to say. (Wow, this is tough)
  34. Eladola

    Eladola Active Member

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    Thanks for being nice at least,
    People have been pretty evil in private messages .

    It's not a language thing, I responded to someone saying something about her reaction at worlds 2013, (i don't think i was unclear, you can go back and check, i even specified facts from worlds 2013 in my comments so obviously i'm aware of the event, Sadly couldn't get tickets though)
    The problem was when for some reason people, i guess, thought i was talking about her reaction yesterday

    I would have let this go earlier but some people went out of their way to make me fell like s**t,
    I hope they get banned for a month,

    Sorry for spamming the thread with this,
    Let's get back to Yuna shall we ?
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  35. Robeye

    Robeye Curiously curious

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    OK, good idea. Clean slates for everyone. :)
  36. Eladola

    Eladola Active Member

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    Yes, Except for my Reputation point situation ;)

    SO, does anyone have a link to the protocol of the FS ?
    I kinda was surprised at the score, even with the fall and no 3t
  37. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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  38. allezfred

    allezfred Prick Admin Staff Member

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    I was in Zagreb and my impression was that the short worked really well for Yuna. She seemed to be a lot more emotionally involved in it than she has seemed to me to be the previous times I've seen her live.

    I wasn't so enamoured with the free. I thought it was a bit generic. If she skates it well, no doubt it will score well, but it didn't appeal to me.
  39. bronwynsings

    bronwynsings Active Member

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    I quite like both programs :) The SP will be a beautiful way to send her goodbye to the sport, and the LP will be phenomenal if she skates it with fire. The emoting has gotten a LOT better from last year, and hopefully it will improve more by the Olympics!

    The LP dress is gorgeous, and the SP dress isn't too bad unless you take out the sleeves. I miss the Kiss of the Vampire dress though, that was purely gorgeous.
  40. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    I wonder why just the level 1 for her final spin?!