Yu Na Kim is great skater but not even in same league as much greater Michelle Kwan

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by judgejudy27, May 10, 2011.

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  1. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    After Vancouver last year there was some over the top talk of Yu Na Kim being possibly the greatest skater ever. I thought that was ridiculous at the time but it is typical bandwagon jumping I guess. Now though it should be obvious she isnt even anywhere near the same league as Michelle Kwan. Yu Na has competed in 5 Worlds and won the title in only 1. Mao Asada and even Miki Ando have more World titles than her in the same period. :lol: Imagine Michelle Kwan letting a skater of Miki Ando's level win even one World title in her era, let alone two. Michelle Kwan has FIVE times the number of World titles as Yu Na despite competing in a far tougher era with much more competition.

    Furthermore you compare the two as skaters Kwan is clearly superior in every category except jumps and spins where they are roughly equal. Yu Na Kim should never be compared with Kwan again unless she improves the level of her skating a huge amount, and sweeps the World and Olympic titles for the next 3 years. Add to all that Kim's longevity appears to be nowhere near Kwan's when she is already tailing off after only a few years on top, unlike Kwan who was on top of her own game and womens skating for a decade. And that Kim has only done about one clean competitition in her life. The myth Kim is a much stronger jumper should already be dispelled by the fact Kim doesnt even do all 5 standard triples, as a result has never done a 7 triple long program (or maybe once), and hardly has ever done a clean long program even with the triples she has.

    If Yu Na Kim skated like she did in Vancouver 80% of the time she would be comparable to Michelle Kwan. As it is however no.
  2. manleywoman

    manleywoman podcast mistress

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    Oh boy. Really?

    One thing I will say yuna has over MK: speed. MK was slow.
  3. antmanb

    antmanb Well-Known Member

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    Why don't you do a poll? Please make the title at least 30 words long to ensure the right outcome.
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  4. michiruwater

    michiruwater Well-Known Member

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    You really love the off-season, don't you?
  5. Jarrett

    Jarrett Well-Known Member

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    While I agree Yu-na is much faster but I would never say Michelle was actually "slow" besides going into her loop sometimes. :slinkaway Michelle's speed was decent. As far as the topic... it's the off season I guess!
  6. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    I dont agree Kwan is slow. Look at her flying at the end of this program:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ptj_tO7tIXg

    It is possible Kim is faster though. That is probably the only are she might be clearly superior.
  7. Loves_Shizuka

    Loves_Shizuka Well-Known Member

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    Well this is going to be good.

    :watch:
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  8. DickButtonFan

    DickButtonFan New Member

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    I'd have to agree you can't compare Yuna to MK so far. Michelle is a legend and it will be a very long time before any tops her. I don't think it's just MK's 5 world titles that sets her above the rest but her memorable programs. Her programs are like a piece of art.

    So far IMO no one has matched MK's excitement and emotion that she showed in her 2003-2004 national and worlds lp performances.

    Yuna is a great skater but I just don't think she likes to compete so she ends up not showing the same kind of joy in her performances like MK did. Michelle loved to compete and she was such a fighter.
  9. lowtherlore

    lowtherlore New Member

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    I have no interest in a Michelle vs Yu-Na fan war. Both are great champions and belong to the echelon of legendary skaters.

    But I'd like to point out Judgejudy's claims, whether seriously meant or intended for fun, are unfair because:

    (1) You would never know whether Michelle would have had as long a career if she had won at Nagano;

    (2) If Yu-Na were an American and had a backing from a stronger federation, she would have won at least two worlds by now (e.g. controversial judging at 2008 Worlds) and would have become an even bigger stature than she is now, with her olympic win;

    (3) Yu-Na has been overall more dominant against her contemporaries than Michelle had been against hers at any point in her career; and

    (4) Yu-Na's career isn't over yet.
    Last edited: May 10, 2011
  10. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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  11. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    Good thing there's a short off-season this year...

    If you have enough data, you can play the numbers and get anything you want. Kwan has more world titles, but Kim has an OGM and has never finished off the podium. Kim has finished behind Miki and Mao. Kwan was beaten by Sarah Hughes and Irina Slutskaya, and finished off the podium in her last Worlds. So what does it all prove? Absolutely nothing. They're both great, neither of them is a machine, and it really comes down to personal preference.
  12. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Michelle would have competed to 2002 for sure even if she won 1998. Probably retired after 2002 then either win or lose. So she would have 4 World titles and the 98 Olympic Gold as her resume which would be even better in that case, and virtually all of her most historic performances.
  13. mrinalini

    mrinalini Active Member

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    Tsk, tsk...we know Michelle is the greatest, judgejudy. Although, can't we just, like, keep that fact as something that we all know but don't have to acknowledge? That way we can all remain starry-eyed at the enormous lurve that Kim and Kwan supposedly have for each other, and it'll also prevent the crazies from getting out.

    Thanks in advance.
  14. antmanb

    antmanb Well-Known Member

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    Do you do lottery number predictions too?
  15. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Michelle always said she wanted to compete in more than 1 Olympics no matter what happened in Nagano and she said many times after she would have continued as well. Michelle is wired differently than people like Lipinski and Baiul. She loves to compete and she never was that interested in pro skating anyway. Which is why even after she finally was forced to retire with injury she never did any pro skating.
  16. lowtherlore

    lowtherlore New Member

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    I agree Michelle had many historic performances. For Yu-Na fans, she also had her share of landmark performances. I really don't see the need to compare the two. It's all subjective, isn't it. And how do we know if Yu-Na is not planning to compete in her second olympic. She'll be only 23 at Sochi.
  17. ponta1

    ponta1 New Member

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    What controversial judging?
  18. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    If she plans to compete in Sochi she had better get her act together in a hurry. Her skating at Worlds this year was disgraceful for a champion of her caliber who didnt have an injury and wasnt coming off the Olympic high. If her skating has gotten so bad with her new part time approach to skating that she cant even beat Miki Ando what is she going to do against the Russian ladies and a possibly resurgent Mao Asada. :lol:

    The way she is skating right now is not good enough to win anymore major titles so that she might be continuing is really moot for the moment until she shows some vast improvement in her skating from the atrocity it was at the recent Worlds.
  19. aliceanne

    aliceanne Well-Known Member

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    The greatest skater is the one that you like best. Neither Yuna nor Michelle is my favorite skater, but they bring pleasure to others so I have no problem with people saying they are the greatest.

    If you are looking for objective standards with which to compare skaters, there aren't any. Just ask the judges. :rolleyes:
  20. blue_idealist

    blue_idealist Well-Known Member

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    You're exactly right.
  21. hirshey girl

    hirshey girl New Member

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    :watch::watch::watch: Just waiting to see how long it takes before this thread goes off the rails. :rofl:
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  22. Cheylana

    Cheylana Well-Known Member

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    Not long, I'm sure.
    Counting down...... 5...4...3...2...1.......
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  23. Cheylana

    Cheylana Well-Known Member

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    I think something about winning the OGM seems to douse the competitive fires in most skaters. Even very competitive skaters like Tara. They just seem to lose motivation.
  24. NinjaTurtles

    NinjaTurtles Teenage Mutant

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    This thread is all sorts of meaningless when we consider it's basically grumbling over 2nd and 3rd place in the rank of greatest lady skaters.

    Clearly Sasha is #1!


    :p
  25. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Port de bras!!!

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    I know, right? :watch:
  26. sson4won

    sson4won New Member

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    I don't know why ppl like you want to pick a fight so badly. You say like "C'mon let's (cat)fight against me". I'm sure you're going to talk about yunabot. Pathetic. Pathetic. Pathetic.
  27. sk9tingfan

    sk9tingfan Well-Known Member

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    Not that it excuses a lack of performance, but my gut tells me that YuNa is depressed. Does anyone think that I'm all wet?
  28. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    I don't think fans can really know any skater's state of mind.

    Yu-Na Kim almost won Worlds, so I don't think she skated that badly. :p
  29. casken

    casken Well-Known Member

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    I'm pretty sure we past that point at post #1.
  30. JerseySlore

    JerseySlore Active Member

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    I'd bet you started it. :p
  31. Jenny81

    Jenny81 Member

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    You are at it again! :rolleyes:
    Sorry but it's not even funny anymore. :slinkaway
  32. a56

    a56 New Member

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    OP is one of those bandwagon jumpers. OP heavily depends on statistics, loves comparing skaters, and jumps around from calling skater A the greatest, then the next skater B if skater A has a bad competition. :violin: Not a true fan of any one skater, loves bash/controversial threads, and loves stirring the pot. What's with the need to constantly compare skaters against each other? It's not like there is a COP style scale from 0 to 10 on how to rank the greatest skaters. It's all subjective.
    Last edited: May 10, 2011
  33. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    I'm a Kwan fan, but I can't agree with this thread !
    They both have their own qualities, and Yu-Na has already proven she is among the greatest ever, titles or not. There's no war here.
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  34. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

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    Interesting, judgejudy. a year ago you were arguing that Yu-Na is the greatest ever, and when I counted the number of worlds Asada won and Yu-Na won, you claimed that the Olympics count for much more than just worlds. I wonder what made you change your mind! :rolleyes:
  35. alchemy void

    alchemy void Well-Known Member

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    The definitive ranking is:
    1. Witt
    2. Kwan
    3. Slutskaya
    4. Butyrskaya
    4. Yu Na

    The end.
  36. os168

    os168 Active Member

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    Hahaha I knew we are going to get another one of this just like every year during the off seasons.

    Question.
    If you are so convinced why bother asking for approval?

    Answer
    Insecurity can make people funny things, like uhmm.. this thread!!

    Alternatives
    Name a single skater is in the same league as Michelle?

    2nd Alternatives
    Name a single skater is in the same league as Yuna?
  37. attyfan

    attyfan Well-Known Member

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    I'm curious why you think this is true. Yu-Na is a huge celebrity in Korea, in part, because she is the first Korean lady to win both Worlds and Olys in figure skating; the US, OTOH, has many world champs and OGMs. Furthermore, an American OGM in '02 didn't help stop skating's slide in ratings/popularity, so I don't think an American Yu-Na winning in Vancouver would have made much of a difference.
  38. Rob

    Rob Beach Bum

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    I love both! Both are amazing! Both have faults! 2 of my faves ever.

    I wish Michelle had an OGM and more speed.

    I wish YuNa could point her feet.

    I wish they both had better layback leg line!
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  39. miki88

    miki88 New Member

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    Here we go again.... :scream:

    These types of threads get resurrected every off-season. :p
  40. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    I did not argue Kim as the greatest ever, I argued that she was clearly the best skater of her generation ahead of Asada, which I would still stand by. And yes I remember the Olympics vs Worlds thing we argued about. Of course the Olympics is more important than a single Worlds as you foolishly denied, but it certainly isnt close to on par with 4 Worlds which she is behind Michelle right now. Your basic reading comprehension has not improved in even a 14 month span I see however, congratulations.
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