Yu-Na, Carolina & Mao: A Comparison

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by kwanatic, Feb 1, 2013.

  1. lowtherlore

    lowtherlore New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2006
    Messages:
    390
    Caro was very impressive when I saw her live. Another skater who's better live than on screen was Kiira Korpi. I understood her good scores after watching her live.
     
  2. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2003
    Messages:
    12,501
    Absolutely. I remember TEB few years ago, I was impressed by the difference between Mao and Yu Na skating back to back. When Mao skated, I was like "Oh, she is so good". But when Yu Na skated, you could see the difference.
    Same for Carolina.
    She is not the most impressive to watch on TV, but the speed, control she has on the ice is amazing !
     
  3. sonya71

    sonya71 New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2012
    Messages:
    23
    PCS Scores Comparison (Short + Free)

    2011 World (Gold-Miki, Silver-Yuna, Bronze-Caro, 6th-Mao)
    Yuna 99.81
    Miki 95.84
    Caro 95.37
    Mao 90.68

    2012 World (Gold-Caro, 6th-Mao)
    Caro 96.46
    Mao 89.62

    ******

    Based on past scores, Yuna will likely get the highest PCS. However, her skating skills may not be completely back, and her Homage program was better than Les Mis. Additionally, since clean Miki scored only 4 points less than Yuna, it is likely that Yuna’s PCS will be higher only if she goes clean and Caro and Mao don’t.

    Mao scored approximately 10 points under Yuna in 2011, and 7 points under Caro in 2012. However, these were the worst results of Mao’s career, and she has won every competition she entered in this season. Her PCS is likely to dramatically improve.

    Caro scored 4.5 points below Yuna in 2011, but she is also the reigning champion. If she skates clean, she is likely to get the highest PCS.

    Based on these past results, I estimate that whoever gets the most tech mark will get the highest PCS.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2013
  4. theguitarist

    theguitarist New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2007
    Messages:
    26
    That's TEB 2009 right? I went to the same event. I was sitting quite far back (and probably I needed a new prescription for my contacts) and saw Mao mildly stirring the air by her moves and jumps like a beach ball at a far-away shore. Then Yuna glided into the rink upright like a thin, tall motored pencil with the silhouette of Olive Oil in her Bond costume, and cruising the ice like a Batman Mobile.
     
  5. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2003
    Messages:
    10,174
    I heard the same thing about Joannie Rochette. People say you don't fully appreciate her until you see her live.
     
  6. TheIronLady

    TheIronLady New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2010
    Messages:
    1,520
    I think the more balletic skaters are best on television.
     
  7. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2012
    Messages:
    2,064
  8. theguitarist

    theguitarist New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2007
    Messages:
    26
    My reaction
    1. Yuna is beautiful, but not movie star-gorgeous, nor did she win because of her 'sexiness.'
    2, Ballet is not the only dance in this world. People can be a great dancer without being balletic.
    3. It's Mao and not Mayo. This lady just makes me feel really hungry.
     
  9. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2012
    Messages:
    2,064
    hungry? :)
     
  10. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2012
    Messages:
    2,064
  11. Jenny81

    Jenny81 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2011
    Messages:
    262
    I agree.
    Check this out. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=NPVEozgJSGw (2009 TEB Mao & Yuna)
     
  12. sonya71

    sonya71 New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2012
    Messages:
    23
    Yuna's edges were better at Vancouver, though Mao’s edges are getting there, too: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ln6Y2ppJiaw (a comparion of Bells and Swan Lake)

    But I still think that the score at Torino Worlds was out of line.
     
  13. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2003
    Messages:
    10,174
    I prefer Mao's spins, lines, and footwork. However, in Vancouver, it was quite obvious that Yuna's speed and depth of edge were superior to Mao. Just compare their spiral sequences. Mao's look way better, but Yu Na's coverage of the ice is far superior. Mao lost a lot of speed.
     
  14. babayaga

    babayaga Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2010
    Messages:
    434
    I agree. Yuna used to have better skating skills than Mao, but not any more. Mao came to Nobuo Sato to improve her jumps, but he made her work on her basic skating first and the difference is very noticeable I think. Yuna, on the other hand, remained on her previous level at best so they are much closer in that aspect now than in 2009.
     
  15. skatingfanfun

    skatingfanfun New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2010
    Messages:
    120
    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EEXMSs7t4-8

    This is how I like it.

    The difference between figure skating fan and a certain skater's über fan:)

    So come to the topic, for the three incredible young ladies, I think Yuna has the total package, Mao is the most elegant and has the best spiral and spin positions and the most exciting/best step sequences, and I like Caro's ability to gain speed with almost no crossovers, especially in her LP this year. I think Mao's advantage in steps is that she has good control, fast , clean and smooth changes of edges and directions. Yuna and Caro's s jumps are more powerful. Mao's jumps were very light and effortless, she's gradually getting there now.

    All have the ability to challenge but I believe it will be still mainly between Yuna and Mao, my two favorite skaters.

    Mao's skating skills improved greatly after 2010 and is now on par with Yuna. I'm over the coach splitting/firing chaos now and I can enjoy Yuna's skating again.

    I believe Yuna is Mao's best motivator. look at what Mao did at 4CC, and I'm so excited going to World.

    I have never had the honor to watch all the ladies live together and I will really cherish this opportunity and see with my own eyes how they play off live vs on TV.

    Good luck everybody !
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2013
  16. AndyWarhol

    AndyWarhol Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2009
    Messages:
    1,207
    I disagree with Yuna having the entire package.. doesn't the entire package include nice looking positions?
     
  17. Robeye

    Robeye Curiously curious

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2010
    Messages:
    411
    The oft-repeated statement that Yuna is the "complete package" is, IMO, correct.

    -When a Michelle Kwan or a Peggy Fleming evince such a view, it generally means that the skater has the skills to score highly in all the major elements and components being judged. Their opinions therefore include the (quite factual) premise that Yuna's spirals/spins/positions will score well. People like Michelle and Peggy assume as a matter of course that it is understood that skating is first and foremost a competitive pursuit, and that therefore notions such as "complete package" make communally verifiable sense only in this context.

    -AFAIK, there is no explicit bullet point for "nice looking" (or even an official definition).

    -To say (as Michelle and Peggy, and many others, have done) that Yuna is the complete package is not necessarily to say that she is perfect. It is merely stating what should be obvious: Yuna has no glaring weaknesses from an objective, competitive perspective, despite offending the personal table of values of some of her critics.
     
  18. AndyWarhol

    AndyWarhol Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2009
    Messages:
    1,207
    Is a spiral not meant to be done with a straight leg?
     
  19. Robeye

    Robeye Curiously curious

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2010
    Messages:
    411
    How much is a "straight" leg worth? In other words, if the presence/absence of the feature does not materially affect the skater's prospects for competitive success, then equally it does not materially determine whether or not she is the "complete package".

    When one goes too much beyond what the rules reward/punish in terms of what one chooses to emphasize or hold dear, it enters the realm of the deeply personal. An extreme example to illustrate the point: I might say that a spin is not a spin unless the skater does it with a cup of hot tea balanced on her head. If this feature were considered fundamental to the sport, then it would be meaningfully incorporated into the scoring criteria. It if has, ah, minimal impact, then I am forced to conclude that a skater is not disqualified as a "complete package" without it.
     
  20. martyross

    martyross Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    905
    Very logic and precise points, Robeye.
    Yet, I think AndyWharol should have phrased differently, like: "Yuna has no classic/balletic positions", rather than "no nice looking positions". How can you say that her Ina bauer, for instance, is ugly? Actually you can take any of the photos taken from her performances and appreciate the shapes of her body so in tune with the artistic content of the music . Of course some don’t like them, but there are lot of people who finds them wonderful, so it’s hard to state "She has ugly positions" as a fact, unless you add "to me". It’s like saying "Beethoven’s Fifth symphony is ugly, because I don’t like it" (for the record, I don’t like it :D ). Beethoven is considered one of the best composers ever and it’s undeniable that his music has at least an objective value/quality, even if some don’t love it. The same can be applied to Yu-Na’s skating, I think.
     
    os168 and (deleted member) like this.
  21. martyross

    martyross Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    905
    This statement makes me a little curious. Because I wouldn’t say that before 2010 Mao Asada’s skills were not good. Take her programs from 2008 Worlds for instance. They show a tremendous amount of skill. Maybe the point is that after 2008 Worlds the emphasis was put so much on Mao’s jumping ability that the skating skills received less attention. Maybe the program that fans generally refers to is the Olympic FS, which didn’t look very convincing as a general impression although was executed with some expression. There wasn’t much speed, deep edges, flow, complexity, etc. But good skating skills were already there before 2010.
    Now a more personal opinion that will probably sound weird, especially to those who love the Swan Lake program. We all know that after 2010 her skating suffered in some respects, but right now I actually don’t see all the great progress that is often mentioned. There might have been a progress, of course, but not that dramatic. If we want to make a comparison with Yu-Na, as skatingfanfun did, I still think the latter has more speed and edges and shows a steadiness and confidence that Mao still lacks. Probably this Swan Lake will look better at Worlds, although I have some doubts giving that Mao is back in training difficult jumps at full engine, in the clear and anxious convinction that it's the only way to surpass her rival, so we might see a repetition of the Olympics, only this time her program will look much prettier and attractive.
     
  22. TheIronLady

    TheIronLady New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2010
    Messages:
    1,520
    A more pressing question for me is: What about the lack of centering on some of Kostner's spins?

    The judges give her 1s and 2s for spins that travel and sometimes rock. I don't believe this is a personal taste issue. Shouldn't it be deducted from Kostner's TES?
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2013
  23. oleada

    oleada Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2006
    Messages:
    28,899
    How can Yu Na be the complete package if she is lacking a 3Lo?
     
  24. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2003
    Messages:
    12,501
    LOL, and how can Yu Na be the complete package if she is lacking spread eagle ? :p
     
  25. Shaia

    Shaia Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2010
    Messages:
    231
    How do you define "nice looking"? If you mean aesthetically pleasing to the eyes, then oh my, Yuna certainly has nice looking positions out on the ice. I could post links to hundreds of photos, but I will abstain :)
     
  26. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2003
    Messages:
    10,174
    Yes, I'm sure you can.
     
  27. FunnyBut

    FunnyBut Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2002
    Messages:
    4,391
    How can Yuna be the complete package if she is lacking a boyfriend? :grope:
     
  28. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2012
    Messages:
    2,064
    :lol: Is she lacking??? Why? She is beautiful! And Has Mao boyfriend?
     
  29. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2009
    Messages:
    5,262
    Okay, you made me do this: how can she be considered a complete package if she's lacking a Pooh tissue box? :p

    FWIW, I don't think any of the three should be considered a "complete skater", and I find the subject silly. The whole point is that they have different strengths and weaknesses, and different fans will emphasize certain characteristics over others, thus affecting how each is perceived.
     
  30. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2012
    Messages:
    2,064
    We are in agreement on something, again...