Yu-Na, Carolina & Mao: A Comparison

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by kwanatic, Feb 1, 2013.

  1. l'etoile

    l'etoile New Member

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    Bolero. Sure, it has many empty spots like long jump set ups but the part from step sequence, choreo sequence to the last 3 salchow, just soars the climax:swoon: I've not liked her programs that much except Canon SP, but this Bolero is really something special.

    :) I totally understand people's longing for her programs from 2006-07 season. They were that good.


    I agree with Jackie Wong's point in that article. Confidence is Mao's biggest strength right now. If that Swan Lake or I've Got Rhythm program was to be skated by others, they wouldn't have come alive so beautifully. This season, it just shows that she is fully confident of herself, selling those programs.


    You know, IMO it's all about mojo. Carolina has hers after winning the first world title--look at her recent interviews and performances-- increasing her chance of doing better than great in Sochi, Mao has hers by getting back 3A and her ultimate goal of becoming OGM sure adds something to that.
    But when it comes to Yuna, it's a bit of an enigma. She wants to compete almost solely for the future of Korea's figure skating and partially not to have regrets. Would it be enough for her to get fully motivated when you have already achieved everything in your career? Fierce competitors like Plushy and Katarina could do that but Yuna doesn't seem like a person who is all about winning. Could this turn around if she starts winning in big competitions, rediscovering that fire she had?
  2. theguitarist

    theguitarist New Member

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    L'etoile, you speak as though Yuna has already faltered in a major way. Whether Yuna's desire to win is strong enough, or even what her motivations are exactly, as a matter of fact, seems like a topic of speculation more suitable in a situation where a skater hugely and unexpectedly bombed. The fact that she seemed as if she ran through her programs perfunctorily at NRW or did not show the full glow of her usual charisma at the Korean Nationals is reason enough in this forum to portray her like an injured lion or a 'has been.' The (imaginary) smell of blood seems to attract all sorts of agenda-driven comments that are essentially confabulations, such as she is not artistic, and she never was, or all her programs were 'forgettable' except the two in her senior debut year, and what not? I am not saying you are one of the confabulators, btw. I really have only one word to say: JEALOUSY.
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2013
  3. antmanb

    antmanb Well-Known Member

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    :rofl: well with your 12 year old arguments you will surely win everyone over. Yes it's just jealousy :rofl:
  4. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    Wow...

    Listen, I understand blind fandom. I started out on the internet as a 16 year-old crazy Kwan fan (and still am a huge Kwan fan), but one should learn some objectivity and understand that just because not everyone agrees with your opinion does not make them completely wrong. Some things can't be argued (like if someone said Kim's Triple Lutz is horrible...we have video proof that it certainly does not). However, just because someone doesn't buy the fact that Kim is an absolute artist or that her body is one with the music doesn't make them jealous or have some sort of agenda.

    People like what they like. It's also a dangerous when you start accusing people of jealousy and having an agenda because the other side can easily turn that around and talk about blind devotion and love (and possibly immaturity plus patriotism) clouding one's judgment.
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  5. theguitarist

    theguitarist New Member

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    No one likes to be told they are acting out of jealousy, I know. But, jealousy is a fact of life.;)
  6. l'etoile

    l'etoile New Member

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    You never cease to amaze me, theguitarist. But how you manage to take things to another level as usual Yunabots do is nothing new.
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  7. theguitarist

    theguitarist New Member

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    If not giving myself to convoluted arguments with a veneer of pseudo-objectivity for a foregone conclusion that yuna is not all that she is made out to be and having the honesty to call it jealousy makes me a yunabot, so be it. While you are at it, please make me the capitain of the yunabots, you seem to have the power.
  8. antmanb

    antmanb Well-Known Member

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    Well let's see, so far you refuse to engage in any type of discussion. Many thoughtful posters have given their assessments of the comparative skill of these three ladies, referring to both their technical accomplishments, and referred to criteria that make up the PCS mark and given assessments of that.

    You have said - I'm not going to argue. Yuna is star. Anyone who disagrees is just jealous !!!!!LOLZ!!!!ELEVENTY!!!!

    So you can see why people are not taking you seriuosly and dismiss you as a bot.
  9. Shaia

    Shaia New Member

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    I simply said "yes" to a question posted by the person who started this trash can thread whether Yuna can still beat Mao if Mao skates clean or hits majority of her jumps. How on earth is that an insult to any other poster? Who is insulting who here? And "reasonable analysis to support your arguments"?? LMAO. All I see here in this trash can thread is fans offering their completely subjective (and inevitably biased) views. And had I given my two-page essay of a "reasonable analysis", would that have changed your mind to appreciate Yuna's skating more??? Or would you have disregarded it as another blind worship of Queen Yuna?
  10. l'etoile

    l'etoile New Member

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    I didn't say it was you who insulted:confused: However, you clearly added your opinion when you said "quality over quantity." In what sense? You were basically implying that Mao lacks in quality which was left unsupported. I or any others here do not demand objective views. That's an impossible territory for this sport. Subjective or not, when you say something, it will earn much more agreement/understanding when "reasons" were given. It surely helps the discussion, doesn't it?
  11. theguitarist

    theguitarist New Member

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    Listen, I just don't like the tone in this thread where half of the posters are just taking a swipe at Yuna in their long-winded, seemingly 'thoughtful' posts, as though indeed they were making an 'objective assessment' or presenting their snarky comments as a matter of 'personal taste.' Too much bad faith, too much venom. I have no problem with real (constructive) criticism.
  12. ks777

    ks777 Well-Known Member

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    Nobody said anything hurtful about Yuna. I don't know why you are taking this all personal. I don't know what you are doing here if you don't like other people opinons on your favorite(probably your country's hero).
  13. theguitarist

    theguitarist New Member

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    Feel free to disagree with me, Maybe you're right, maybe I'm overreacting. But, please don't get cute. I don't wonder if you are from Papua New Guinea or if you are gay. Let's keep this discussion where it belongs, shall we?
  14. museksk8r

    museksk8r Holding an edge and looking dangerously sexy

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    It appears the type of discussion you want to have about Yu-Na doesn't belong in this forum, which is called Figure Skating Universe, where diverse figure skating fans from all around the world share their varying opinions and interests about a wide assortment of skaters and topics. This is not Yu-Na Universe where everyone is a fan of Yu-Na Kim. Maybe you should consider staying in a fan forum for your favorite if you can't tolerate differences of opinions regarding her and her skating.
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  15. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    Don't be so jealous!!!!
  16. shine

    shine Well-Known Member

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    I think you touched a very sensitive nerve, ks777 :D
  17. sonya71

    sonya71 New Member

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    Comparing ice coverage and speed is a good way to get a sense of skater's skating skills:

    Mao Asada
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_Oqd7ALbCA
    (unfortunately, I cannot find this season's program taken from afar, but we can assume her skating skills have improved since last season)

    Yuna Kim
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=5gj9JYjdYv8

    Carolina Kostner
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRevSNTNMKc

    Things to focus are speed before jump, but also ice coverage of step sequence. Who covers the most ice?
  18. TheIronLady

    TheIronLady New Member

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    I agree that the nationality or ethnicity of posters is far less important than their grasp of the facts and willingness to learn from others.

    ETA: This post replaces a terrible attempt at a joke that fell flatter than Surya Bonaly's edges.
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2013
  19. Shaia

    Shaia New Member

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    So this is what you mean by "many thoughtful posters".

    In my view, going back to the categories set by the thread starter, Yuna has superior qualities than Mao or Caro in the following areas:

    Jumps:
    - Axel
    - Toe
    - Flip
    - Lutz
    - Combos (3-3 and 2-3)

    Skating Skills (edge, speed, flow)
    Transitions
    Choreography

    Mao certainly has the edge in spins, and Caro is second to Yuna in skating skills. Caro has the edge in salchow, and loop is between Caro and Mao, as Yuna doesn't have it. As for choreography/musicality/interpretation, etc. although Mao is the most balletic skater of the three, she has the least musicality in my view and is outclassed by not just Yuna, but many other top skaters. Caro is only slightly better.

    Thus, Yuna is clearly the best skater of the three, no contest.

    However, given that the difference in BV is now 10 points between Yuna's and Mao's current LP layouts, this doesn't mean Yuna will win easily or if at all. I said Yuna can beat a clean Mao at the Worlds, and I think she should if Yuna skates perfectly, but that is up to the judges. In reality though, I think the chance of both Mao and Caro going clean at the Worlds is as likely as jealous Yuna-antis at FSU behaving themselves.
  20. munow

    munow New Member

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    I don't think Asada will deliver a clean performance of her FS "Swan Lake." Her "8-triple" jump layout is out of her reach in my opinion. She'll most likely pop the salchow, under-rotate the second jumps of her 3+3 and 2+3 and have an obvious flutz. 3A is 50/50. She should've concentrated more on improving her jumping technique because for now, she can't jump high enough. The original 7-triple without 3A was already so difficult and she hasn't skated it clean. Now that she's trying even more, the chances of her skating it clean is even slimmer. Being ambitious only means so much when you're actually successful at it.
  21. theguitarist

    theguitarist New Member

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    You're absolutely right. I'm here not to respect certain expressions of diversity of opinion, like this one, for example,
    "Actually Kim Yu Na is very popular Papua New Guinea. Her positions remind them of the traditional squat done by tribal big men" (the poster later had the good sense of removing it). I'm here also to see if these people with 'innocent opinions' will take my opinions as such, without resorting to vocabularies such as 'troll,' 'yunabot' or insinuating that I must be Korean. You certainly can do better than that, can't you?
  22. Li'Kitsu

    Li'Kitsu Member

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    She can't jump high enough? Mao did work on her technique, and she deliberatly sacrificed some height to gain more ice coverage. But she needs to use more entry speed for that (Flip at least), and she still needs to get used to that. Mao is still in the progress of reworking her jumps....
    That said, I think you're right she won't be clean at worlds this year. But I don't think that's so important for her. Mao wants to do that layout in Sochi, so better get used to it now. I doubt her goal is to win worlds by now, is getting a good learning/stepping stone experience for Sochi and the self-confidence that she can manage it until then.
    If Mao skates really well, but with some mistakes, and comes third to Yuna and Caro, I'd still be happy for her. It's more of a question what your ultimate goal is.

    Really?
    Yunas SS are amazing, but come on... better egdes than Carolina? Carolina can gain speed during her footwork, she doesn't even need to have crossovers before. I'm not even a fan of her, but saying Yuna has superior egdes, flow and speed over Caro is a little too much.
    (Choreography is another debatable point, but that's that - debatable. You can find arguments in any direction I guess. But for SS, that's not really a thing of opinion.)
  23. TheIronLady

    TheIronLady New Member

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    At moments like these I am glad that Carolina is in this mix because it deflects some attention from the contentious Japan vs. Korea theme, which seems to come to the fore in Yu Na vs Asada comparisons. I've never seen any Caro fans be accused of being Italians! :lol:
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2013
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  24. Jenny81

    Jenny81 Member

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    Asada=Japan
    Yuna=South Korea
    Carolina=Chinquanta!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :p
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  25. iloveemoticons

    iloveemoticons Well-Known Member

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    I think Yuna occasionally URs her second 3T after her 3L or 2A, but as long as she pulls it off she never gets a UR call because the last tech caller to do so got raked over the coals. Whereas Mao will likely get downgrades on various jumps. Therefore Yuna wins again...
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  26. miki88

    miki88 New Member

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    Don't tempt the skate gods. ;)

    Anyways, I think she is the best competitor of the three but I don't think it's that clear that she is the best skater of the three. If we talk about consistency, Yuna has the edge in jumps but since you were talking about quality, Kostner can rival her in a lot of the jumps when she lands them. They are at least on par for skating skills and I would say Kostner has the edge. Mao isn't as fast as those two but she is known for having beautiful flow. Choreography and presentation are debatable.
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  27. lauravvv

    lauravvv Well-Known Member

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    Still, it's very difficult to compare. Although I am not a specialist, I understand that step sequences can be very different even if all of them are constructed as level 4 - some steps are "longer", more flowing, others are smaller, shorter, and don't cower that much ice, and so on. Plus, Carolina's LP for this season is slower moving not because of some decline in her skating abilities, but because of the slow music and general rhythm. Also, I thought that Yuna was a bit rusty in her first performances of this program, and not quite as fast as before. But that may change.
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2013
  28. sonya71

    sonya71 New Member

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    Short
    Mao 3A 3F 3Lo 2Lo
    Yuna 3Lz 3F 3T 2A
    Tut 3Lz 3Lo 3T 2A
    Caro 3F 3Lo 3T 2A

    Free
    Mao 3A 3Lz 3F 3F 3Lo 3Lo 3S 3T 2A 2Lo 2Lo
    Tut 3Lz 3Lz 3F 3Lo 3S 3T 3T 2A 2A 2Lo 2T
    Yuna 3Lz 3Lz 3F 3S 3S 3T 2A 2A 2Lo 2T 2T
    Caro 3Lz 3F 3Lo 3S 3S 3T 2A 2Lo 2T 2T 2T
  29. aims

    aims New Member

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  30. t.mann

    t.mann New Member

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    You have to watch Caro live.
    On live seeing, Yuna and Caro are at the different league from the other skaters(including Mao). Mao is better on screen than at stadium, IMO.
    Anyways, a skater who isn't special cannot make Kwan(though old) finish off the Worlds podium. :)
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2013
  31. lowtherlore

    lowtherlore New Member

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    Caro was very impressive when I saw her live. Another skater who's better live than on screen was Kiira Korpi. I understood her good scores after watching her live.
  32. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely. I remember TEB few years ago, I was impressed by the difference between Mao and Yu Na skating back to back. When Mao skated, I was like "Oh, she is so good". But when Yu Na skated, you could see the difference.
    Same for Carolina.
    She is not the most impressive to watch on TV, but the speed, control she has on the ice is amazing !
  33. sonya71

    sonya71 New Member

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    PCS Scores Comparison (Short + Free)

    2011 World (Gold-Miki, Silver-Yuna, Bronze-Caro, 6th-Mao)
    Yuna 99.81
    Miki 95.84
    Caro 95.37
    Mao 90.68

    2012 World (Gold-Caro, 6th-Mao)
    Caro 96.46
    Mao 89.62

    ******

    Based on past scores, Yuna will likely get the highest PCS. However, her skating skills may not be completely back, and her Homage program was better than Les Mis. Additionally, since clean Miki scored only 4 points less than Yuna, it is likely that Yuna’s PCS will be higher only if she goes clean and Caro and Mao don’t.

    Mao scored approximately 10 points under Yuna in 2011, and 7 points under Caro in 2012. However, these were the worst results of Mao’s career, and she has won every competition she entered in this season. Her PCS is likely to dramatically improve.

    Caro scored 4.5 points below Yuna in 2011, but she is also the reigning champion. If she skates clean, she is likely to get the highest PCS.

    Based on these past results, I estimate that whoever gets the most tech mark will get the highest PCS.
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2013
  34. theguitarist

    theguitarist New Member

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    That's TEB 2009 right? I went to the same event. I was sitting quite far back (and probably I needed a new prescription for my contacts) and saw Mao mildly stirring the air by her moves and jumps like a beach ball at a far-away shore. Then Yuna glided into the rink upright like a thin, tall motored pencil with the silhouette of Olive Oil in her Bond costume, and cruising the ice like a Batman Mobile.
  35. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    I heard the same thing about Joannie Rochette. People say you don't fully appreciate her until you see her live.
  36. TheIronLady

    TheIronLady New Member

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    I think the more balletic skaters are best on television.
  37. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

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  38. theguitarist

    theguitarist New Member

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    My reaction
    1. Yuna is beautiful, but not movie star-gorgeous, nor did she win because of her 'sexiness.'
    2, Ballet is not the only dance in this world. People can be a great dancer without being balletic.
    3. It's Mao and not Mayo. This lady just makes me feel really hungry.
  39. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

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    hungry? :)
  40. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

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