Yu-Na, Carolina & Mao: A Comparison

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by kwanatic, Feb 1, 2013.

  1. l'etoile

    l'etoile New Member

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    IMO when it comes to skating skills, Yuna and Carolina are just right up there in the stratosphere. Deep edges and speed not lost while skating at all. And it almost seems like they both have no fear of jumps, they're just throwing themselves!
    What they differ from each other IMO has mainly something to do with choreography and emoting. Carolina has a FABULOUS Bolero LP with intricate choreo, and Yuna has a BEAUTIFUL LP with very much emoting throughout. If you think about it, programs like Bolero wouldn't fit Yuna as well as Caro and vice versa for programs like Les Miserables. They're exquisite in their own style.

    With Caro putting her technical merit back together, I think it'll be between these two for Sochi OGM. I'm really excited to see these two bring wonderful performances at Worlds, REALLY.
     
  2. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Vera

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    I know that this board is full of Carolina worshippers and Mao haters. A thread like this adds tons of fuel to fire. It's the posters' opportunity to hold up the skaters they love and beat up on those they hate, regardless of facts. The truth is they all are different and have their own strengths. It is impossible to do an apple to apple comparison.
     
  3. l'etoile

    l'etoile New Member

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    True. Analyzing or talking up or nitpicking, it's totally up to skaters themselves in the end.
     
  4. shine

    shine Well-Known Member

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    Kim is fast, but she's not quite there with Kostner in terms of pure skating skills. I think her skating skills are good, but it's the power she has that generates a lot of speed. Her edges are not as deep/smooth or effortless.
     
  5. ehdtkqorl123

    ehdtkqorl123 New Member

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    Whatever you think. I knew this kind of reaction would come out. tsk tsk
     
  6. lakewood

    lakewood New Member

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    I tried to point out that Caro never successfully included all the elements OP wrote as hers, while YuNa did.

    And, with 3 loop out, YuNa still keeps highest level of jump difficulty. It is hard to criticise her having a easy jump content. But, with Lz, 3-3 (sometimes flip) out, Caro was heavily criticized as landing only easy jumps. I think that is the difference between YuNa and Caro.
     
  7. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    Didn't Kostner land all five triples at this season's Italian Nats? And not that it relates to the subject of jumps, but I believe she was also the first lady to get level 4 on steps - which is certainly to her credit.

    Yuna Kim hasn't landed all five triples in five years, clearly by the standards of some posters she is turning in subpar skates :p

    Poor Mao, she seems to have been forgotten. I like Mao, and I admire how she's challenged herself both technically and artistically during her career.
     
  8. l'etoile

    l'etoile New Member

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    Complete set of triples or not, isn't OP's intention for this thread is to talk about these marvelous skaters' present abilities? Why keep insisting on their past track record? Consistency is such a rare quality in figure skating and ones who do have that, immediately owns the field like Plushy, Michelle, and Yuna did. Caro and Mao have had their bad times but that doesn't mean they're no better skaters than Yuna is. If you think about how they have progressed to reach the level they have RIGHT NOW, it is just as amazing as Yuna's consistency.
     
  9. loulou

    loulou Well-Known Member

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    Mao has been my all time gold medal for how she conducts herself. She's incredibly gracius, in love with her country even if I swear the press must be following her to the ladies room, grateful to her country for the opportunities she receives (not everyone is) even if they don't hesitate to underline her weaknesses, a person of great sportsmanships, incredibly caring for her family, and at the same time responsable for the commitments she agrees to when she accepts to represent Japan and take financial support.

    In my opinion, the hardest thing Asada had to overcome was CoP changings. She didn't develop with them as a growing skater, and they hit hard Asada's weaknesses: short rotations and wrong edges.
     
  10. jiggs

    jiggs Well-Known Member

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    I am sorry but you are wrong. Off the top of my head: 2002 Nebelhorn Trophy, 2003 Europeans, 2005 Worlds, 2006 Europeans, 2007 Europeans, 2007 Grand Prix Final, 2012 Italian Nationals all included 5 different triples and with the exception of 2012, 3-3 combinations.

    I have never critisized and would never critisize Yuna for having easy jump content ;-) I am aware that her technical abilities are amazing, her program content is extremely difficult and that her jumps are of high quality. The discussion going on previously in the thread was about programs that included 5 different triple jumps, and that is what I responded to in my previous post.

    I agree. But while it is impossible to do an apple to apple comparison, this is a discussion board and it is always interesting to read other's opinions. I appreciate kwanatic's post because I think she did a great job evaluating the strenghts and weaknesses of the 3 girls. All three of them are amazing in their own ways, why not talk and discuss about it all?

    :respec: Now I don't know about you guys but I am really looking forward to seeing those three compete against each other at Worlds!
     
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  11. lauravvv

    lauravvv Well-Known Member

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    As do I :).
     
  12. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    I enjoyed Carolina's 2012 Worlds LP more than anything Mao or Yuna has ever done.

    That's subjective, but I stick by it. One thing I will say is that it gets tiring when people act as if their own opinions and analysis aren't tainted by their own bias, subjective preferences, and skater loyalty. It's not the debate, but it's the lack of self-awareness people have of their own prejudices when making so-called "objective" claims-of-fact that's irksome.
     
  13. lahaa968

    lahaa968 Active Member

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    ^This.

    I think the World Championships this year will prove very interesting. Mao, Yu-Na and Carolina all have different qualities and weaknesses. Carolina and Yu-Na are the only two that can compete in terms of speed (Mao has always been slower in comparison), while Yu-Na has the most technically-weighty program of the 3 in terms of jumps. Mao's strategy is similar to Carolina's, in that she's banking on positive GOE on all her elements, even though the jump content is easier that what both are capable of at maximum. I think Carolina has the best FP choreographically speaking (and she has the highest PCS for her FP of the three-70), followed by Mao (beautiful program, suits her perfectly) then by Yu-Na. Yu-Na is a beautiful performer, and her FP is very nice, but personally I find the music a little cheesy (not to mention the strange music cut into the ChSq) and not as polished and sophisticated as Mao or Carolina. I think the greatest hurdles each skater will have to face respectively will be: Yu-Na-not competing enough this season; Mao-keeping her head together, her knees fast and bendy, and getting a perfect, all GOE+ FP out, and Carolina keeping her head together under the pressure.
     
  14. TheIronLady

    TheIronLady New Member

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    This thread reminds me why I think making transitions a components category is horrible!
     
  15. AndyWarhol

    AndyWarhol Well-Known Member

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    Mao > everyone
     
  16. iarispiralllyof

    iarispiralllyof Active Member

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    Ooh great topic.

    To be fair though I'm going to need to watch their recent performances and review carefully before I post.

    Already though I'm pretty sure Mao's spirals, spins and footwork >>>
     
  17. TheIronLady

    TheIronLady New Member

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    That formula should be put into the ISU technical code.
     
  18. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    I'd put Kostner ahead of Asada on footwork.
     
  19. karlon

    karlon New Member

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    i think yuna>caro>mao
    but, yuna have not a lot of experience this season, I'm not sure..


    yuna kim's 3loop..

    In practice she can
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aM62CMStq1A
    but, She has trauma in loop, injured in 06-08 Seasons.
    loop is well known as the weaknesses jump to her
    the lowest success rate in her jumps

    until, 08-09 season
    she have landed 3loop in program
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2013
  20. oleada

    oleada Well-Known Member

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    Performing some thread necromancy here; in light of the the conclusion of 4CCs, and re-watching Mao, Yu-Na, and Carolina.

    I think that Mao and Carolina (and Akiko, but she is not being discussed in this thread) have both shown tremendous artistic growth that Yu-Na has not. Whether that's because of Yu-Na's layoff or natural ability/desire, I don't know. But for me, Carolina & Mao are very purposeful in their movements; they use the accents and change their movements according to what they're skating to. It's like the music is coming out of their fingertips. Yu-Na, in my opinion, does not. She's a good performer - better than most - but she's not the artist that Mao and Carolina have become. Her movements seem...generic? put on? shallow? Technically, she's amazing, but I think that this lack of genuine artistry keeps me from really enjoying her skating.

    (On another note, Yu-Na's spiral is really quite ugly - and I'm so sick of the David Wilson facestroking choreography).
     
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  21. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    I agree with you. Yu Na is just too reserved. At least Shizuka, another reserved skater, had skating skills like butter and good to great line to mask that (plus Turandot). Yu Na needs to let loose and show more freedom-of-movement and abandon. Right now, she seems too choreographed. It's like an actress with excellent skills, but is too heavily-directed to the point where it shows.

    I know her fans underplay this, but Yu Na's line really does need work. At first many let it slide because she was so much better in her jumps and speed for others to follow. However, now that the other skaters are catching up somewhat, her lack of attention or care to her bodyline is very noticeable.
     
  22. robinhood

    robinhood Active Member

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    I hope they all deliver and may the best win!
    I like them all for so many different reasons, and they have contributed for great skating since 2007. Wonder what will happen after Sochi, so just enjoy them now.
     
  23. gingercrush

    gingercrush New Member

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    In fairness to Yu-Na Kim unlike Kostner and Asada she hasn't had to change. Her jumps are at the level of 2010 (though I guess World Champs will fully show that) and her elements score well and she scores well with her PCs. Kostner and Asada both saw their jumps deteriorate and so much more focus was put on their other elements and both have focused much more on their artistry. Asada now seems to be bringing some of her old difficulty back though she still has underrotation problems and it'll be interesting to see what Kostner shows up with at worlds. I just hope she keeps the momentum she's had the last two years. But she can be very erratic as Asada can too.
     
  24. oleada

    oleada Well-Known Member

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    I can see your point, but as she does not have to work on the technical side as much (because she's already so good) mean that Yu-Na has more time to develop her artistic side? That's just my thought.
     
  25. AndyWarhol

    AndyWarhol Well-Known Member

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    Yuna could have worked on pointing her toe, her wonky spiral and correcting the free leg in her lay back, but she didn't.
     
  26. alchemy void

    alchemy void it's time for the perkolator

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    Great first post analysis, and some good insights after, but this thread is a Petri dish of uberism. :p

    All I have to add is that I can't wait for Worlds. It is the first time any of these 3 ladies meet each other all year + the Americans and Russians...it should be an epic competition! :cheer:
     
  27. ehdtkqorl123

    ehdtkqorl123 New Member

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    Just because you think so doesn't mean that she worked on nothing.
     
  28. Shaia

    Shaia Active Member

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    oleada, just because a skater "doesn't move you" does not mean she is not artistic..... :rolleyes:

    Yuna >>> Mao >>>>>>>>>> Carolina, and the podium will be in that order, unless someone collapses and one of the next tier skaters move up.
     
  29. ks777

    ks777 Well-Known Member

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    I don't really have a favorite anymore. I am happy with whoever skated best wins at the end. But I think it's going to be between Yuna and Mao. Carolina doesn't seem to handle the pressure as well as these two.
     
  30. oleada

    oleada Well-Known Member

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    And because she does you, doesn't mean she is, either. I stated my reasons why I find that Yu-Na is not as artistic as Carolina and Mao, and I did say that it was all my opinion; though others clearly agree. Yu-Na, Mao & Carolina are all great; and they have their own strengths, and yes, it might come as a shock to you, but there are things that Mao & Carolina do better than Yu-Na (and vice versa) and not everyone prefers Yu-Na at all.

    But I should know better than to argue with an uber :p