Would Kristi have continued to 1994 had she not won in 1992.

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by judgejudy27, Jul 2, 2010.

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Would Kristi have continued to 1994 had she not won in 1992?

  1. yes, she would have definitely gone for 94 but retired after 94 win or lose

    92.1%
  2. no, she still retires after the 92 season at only 20, even without the Oly Gold

    2.2%
  3. if she were to lose the gold in 94 too she continues possibly to 98 as well

    5.6%
  1. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    If Kristi had lost the 1992 Olympic Gold medal to Midori Ito or someone else do you believe she would hae continued to 1994 or still retired after the 92 season. My personal feeling is she would have continued to 1994 for sure had she not won in 1992. She would have wanted another shot at the Olympic Gold.
     
  2. casken

    casken Well-Known Member

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    Of course she would have gone on to 94. It was only 2 years away, and she was still one of the more consistent competitors. She probably would have easily won 93 Worlds.

    Considering she was still doing lutzes and flips in pro events and exhibitions around 98, she still could have been competitive at Nagano, but I doubt she would have stuck around that long.
     
  3. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure.

    She has publicly stated that the stress of competition got to her and she was happy to retire.

    OTOH - 1) the field was weaker and 2) it was only 2 years away.

    A competent performance in Lillehamer would've given her the gold. I mean I was able to speculate in another thread that Jill Trenary's performance in '90 would've been competitive against Baiul's winning performance in '94 :yikes:

    Other points to consider if Kristi continued to compete-

    What would've Tonya Harding done? Given up in the face of 2 obstacles in her path instead of 1 [Nancy]? Or would her goon squad have gone after both? :scream:

    Would Nancy's cred have dropped a little?
     
  4. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Nancy has never beaten Kristi, not even once. Not in novice, juniors, seniors, pros. If they were tennis players and played only head to head duels one would say Nancy was Kristi's pigeon or lapdog. The funny thing is Nancy has also beaten every skater who has beaten Kristi before at some point. Nancy would have to raise her level of skating to a level she never raised it to including the 93-94 season to compete with a normal Kristi.

    I dont think Nancy ever enjoyed being the one to beat or even the top American though. She may have prefered Kristi to have been around.
     
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  5. skateboy

    skateboy Well-Known Member

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    This.
     
  6. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    It is a funny thing too as Nancy showed with her dissapointment at not winning the 94 Olympics she still did dream of winning the major Championships like others. And with Kristi around she not only was not the favorite but she couldnt even aspire to win a major event. She really had no chance to ever win a major title if Kristi was there. Atleast with Midori and Tonya she could hope they fell on some of their big jumps and then to beat them with higher artistic marks (even with her own usual mistake littered performance). With Kristi there was really no way for Nancy to even try to beat her since she was technically superior, artistically superior, more consistent, and had a better reputation with the judges. Yet it didnt seem to bother her all the same.

    I actually think Nancy's best ever chance to beat Kristi might have been at the 1990 Goodwill Games if she had skated her best.
     
  7. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    She would have continued to 1994 if she lost in 92 in my view.
     
  8. shsocu

    shsocu Active Member

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    I think that she definitely would have continued on to 1994. During 1992 Worlds one of the commentators talked about how she wasn't sure whether or not she would continue to compete because Kristi and her coach didn't expect her to win til 94.
     
  9. essence_of_soy

    essence_of_soy Well-Known Member

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    Given how she performed at Skate America in 1991, I'd hoped Harding would take gold in Albertville. Potentially, she had the most exciting free skate that season.
     
  10. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Would Tonya have continued had she won in 1992. Would Nancy have if she had won in 92 (not that this was ever likely). The only one certain to retire was Midori.
     
  11. Mafke

    Mafke New Member

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    If they were in prison, Nancy would have been Kristi's b1tch...
     
  12. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, you put it best. :lol:
     
  13. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    That's a shame she stopped after 1992 Worlds.
    She could have won 1993 and 1994 Worlds, and 1994 Olys. :swoon:
     
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  14. Triple Butz

    Triple Butz Well-Known Member

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    And she most certainly would have gotten the US three olympic/world spots in 94 (and potentially 95) and who knows which of the three US skaters would have continued on to 94 worlds. Michelle and Nicole may have had to wait another year to compete. So many possible outcomes...
     
  15. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    It is interesting almost nobody chose the bottom option too. I guess the idea she could ever have lost the 94 gold to Baiul or Kerrigan is beyond anyones imagination. :lol:
     
  16. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    Well, after, at least 2 World titles and an Olympic medal, I don't see her staying for another 4 years. By Nagano, she was 26 !
    At that time, 22 was already old in this sport !
     
  17. ArtisticFan

    ArtisticFan Well-Known Member

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    She has said that was her plan. She was competing in 1992, but the plan was supposedly to medal in 1992 and win gold in 1994.

    However, I have to wonder if that is some sort of revisionist theory. It is easier to say once you already have your gold. Perhaps that was the "back up plan" in case she didn't do well in 1992. You know, "oh this was only practice for 1994."
     
  18. Rock2

    Rock2 Well-Known Member

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    Well, 3 obstacles, if you count the massive bag of groceries she carried back there into the '93 season
     
  19. Twilight1

    Twilight1 Well-Known Member

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    I remember her saying her and Kurt had conversations to this respect so yes.
     
  20. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    It looks like Kerrigan and Baiul and the entire 93-94 cast of contenders should both send flowers to Ito for falling in the SP at the 92 Games. It appears the consensus is Ito not beating Yamaguchi for the 92 Gold as many expected let the leaders of the next 2 years escape the wrath of Kristi, a skater who probably could have beaten the entire 93-94 cast in her sleep. :lol:
     
  21. Twilight1

    Twilight1 Well-Known Member

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    Nancy's whack wouldn't have happened, Baiul wouldn't have been the Oly Champ, Kwan would have had to wait longer to compete at a World's (potentially)

    Wow, the whole dynamic would have been different then, I almost wish Kristi had stayed on... (much as I love Oksana and her being Oly champ) The trickle would have even been felt in 1998! Oksana would have stayed on and her, Kwan, Chen and Lipinski would have been fighting it out in Nagano.
     
  22. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    I agree with most of what you said, but I don't think Baiul would've had the chops to last as a top threat into Nagano '98 due to 1) injuries and 2) lack of sophisticated programs.

    She was barely on top in the 5-6 triple world of the '92 - '94 era and there are many who take issue with her wins even in this easier era. In the '95 - '98 quadrennial, 7 triple winning LPs with more daring 3-3s and more intricacies came back into vogue. Oksana at her best was only doing 5 solo triples and little else besides fanny-wiggling and high-kicking. Despite the monstrous love that judges showered on her, they would've been forced to dump her IMO
     
  23. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    I think if Oksana had stayed in she would have been held up and won the 95 Worlds even if she didnt deserve it, unless she fell off drastically. Chen won with only 5 triples and much improved artistry, but the judges would always take Baiul over Chen. Chen even outskated Baiul at the 93 Worlds and 94 Olympics and it didnt matter. 5 triples would not have been even in the judges eyes to beat even a semi decent Baiul.

    In 96 with how Kwan and Chen skated at Worlds they might have been forced to give the title to someone else if she hadnt improved at all. However by 97 with Kwan's and everyone elses problems it would have been easy to slide her back to the top again over a 14 year old Tara who was pretty much despised by all skating pundits at the time. I think if she just stayed around the same level it actually would have been pretty easy to keep her at or near the top in the coming years had she stayed in.

    And had she not won the 94 Olympics I am pretty sure she would have stayed in. And had Kristi not won the 92 Olympics I am pretty sure she wins in 94 and that happens. And had Baiul stayed in, Tara's rise could well have been delayed to the point she doesnt win the 98 Olympics (though I dont think Baiul does either neccessarily). And if Tara doesnt win the 98 Olympics I think she tries to stay in too. Such a long chain reaction could have occured from the results of the 92 Olympics IMHO. Also had Sato not won the 94 Worlds I think she stays in and her best ever skating was in later years it turned out.

    Another thing to remember is how Baiul is viewed now is not how she was viewed by people inside skating back then. Even with some questioning her 94 Olympic win skating experts gushed over her then and called her a future legend. She was ridiculously overrated and very much in favor with any of the people in the sport who mattered until her drunk driving episode which followed already a couple years of mediocre pro skating. She would have continued to be overrated to ridiculous proportions, and only 1996 was really a particularly strong year for womens skating in the 95-98 quad anyway. If it were such a tough era than a 14 and 15 year old Tara with tiny jumps and iffy artistry (especialy in 97) wouldnt have been able to rise to the top so easily, with Kwan really her only big obstacle.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2010
  24. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    When did Baiul suffer her growth spurt? Didn't that cause a lot of her consistency problems?

    Like the way Tonya Harding's early 90s style skating looked a little dated by 1993/1994, I think Baiul's lack of difficulty and content would not have cut it with the likes of Kwan, Chen, Lipinski, and even Slutskaya by 1997. Say what you will about Lipinski, she sold her routines just as well as Baiul. The only thing Baiul had over Lipinski was Eastern European cred and one gorgeous SP (Swan Lake). Oh and a true Lutz.
     
  25. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    Well, that does make sense. But take into consideration that Baiul probably wouldn't have maintained even 5 triples due to injuries and/or growth spurt post '94. Plus, I think the drunk-driving incident showed personal turmoil which may have been exacerbated by tougher competition in the '95 - '98 quadrennial had she stayed in.

    Also, even with just 5 triples, I think Lulu really blossomed in '95. She had combos, too. Kwan and Lipinski with 7 triples in '96 and '97 respectively were representing a strong fed., too. It wouldn't be skittish Nancy that Oksana had to squeak past in the '95 - '98 period, but 2 steady American jumping beans, loaded with charisma and one especially talented on the 2d mark....all at a time when I think Oksana would be in decline technically.

    Anyway, pure conjecture. :)
     
  26. bardtoob

    bardtoob Well-Known Member

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    Ahhh . . . she stole it, I mean was "inspired" by the Protopopovs.
     
  27. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    It is all speculation of course. I agree if Baiul regressed much below even her 93-94 jumping level which with her injuries and growth spurt she was dead no matter how much the judges wanted to hold her up.

    However "if" she stayed around the same level I am pretty sure she would have been gifted the 95 World title over a superior Chen because she was Baiul. When you compare Chen of 95 to her 93 World and 94 Olympic performances she had much improved artistically but she actually did much weaker technically, and the judges clearly put Baiul on top of Chen at both the 93 Worlds and 94 Olympics even though Chen clearly outskated her in the long program phase at both. Of course all of those performances should have beaten anything Baiul ever did but I doubt that would have been the case with the judges. The only skater the judges would have "allowed" to beat a 93-94 Baiul at the 95 Worlds would have been Nicole Bobek if she didnt fall on her ass twice.

    In 96 the judges would have had a hard time justifying keeping her on top unless she actually improved alot.

    In 97 though it would have been easy to slide her back to the top with even her 93-94 level of skating as long as she skated clean shorts, pretty clean programs, and did about 5 triples. 14 year old Lipinski's rise was despised by all skating insiders when she first emerged, many who were livid she was given major titles even while Kwan, Slutskaya, and everyone else was falling all over themselves in early 97 (minus the LP of Worlds). 1997 was actually one of the worst years of skating I can remember, half of the top 10 from the 96 Worlds werent even around, and the ones that were all had major problems around then.

    Slutskaya was never that good before 2000. Lipinski was never that good before 97. Chen was never that good after 96. Butyrskaya was never considered a big name before 99. And the best skaters dont always win for a variety of reasons, if they did we wouldnt be having all these debates.
     
  28. Triple Butz

    Triple Butz Well-Known Member

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    I'm less convinced that the judges were so anti-Lipinski in 97. She won the GPF, the sp at worlds (where the judges easily could have propped up Gusmeroli or Butyrskaya- I could even see an outside argument for Kwan winning the sp). In the free program, the ordinals were all over the place for Kwan, Lipinski, and Slute, which leads me to believe that the judges really didn't have much of a bias, just judged what they felt.

    It was the next season when all of the Tara hate started coming out. Still, in the 98 Olympics no one would have cried fowl if the judges had given the title to Kwan-who skated two remarkable programs- yet the judges went for Lipinski in the long. If they wouldn't do it for a 7 triple Kwan in 98, what makes you think they would do it for a 5 triple Baiul in 97?
     
  29. Triple Butz

    Triple Butz Well-Known Member

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    That's not even the same composer. This is "The Swan" from Carnival of the Animals by Camille Saint-Saens. Oksana used selections from "Swan Lake" a ballet by Tchaikovsky for her sp. Perhaps you are referring to her exhibition?
     
  30. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    I dont the judges were anti-Tara in 97. I do think the global media, skating insiders, and skating experts of the time were though. So many of them harshly criticized her title wins at the 97 Grand Prix final and 97 Worlds despite that except Slutskaya and Kwan in the LP at the 97 Worlds all her competitors were flopping all over the place. I think the most part the judges let her rise to the very top since there was nobody else. Kwan and Irina were in huge slumps, Chen was out for the year with injury, Maria was still a herky jerky skater seen as the Russian Kwiatkowski around then (emerging journeywomen), Szewcenko was out for the year with more physical problems, Bonaly too pretty much, Ito had retired. Granted the 97 Worlds LP they had the opportunity to place her 3rd in the LP which would have either given Kwan a come from behind gold or Tara an unusual asterix as a World Champ who finished only 3rd in the LP (if Irina won the LP) and didnt but by then the judges had warmed to this new sensation some and she had gained clout by then with her wins at U.S Nationals, the GP final, and by winning the SP at Worlds. I just think if any past champion of any competence was around who was standing up their programs with even average content, it would have been different. The judges didnt hate her, but nobody really wanted a 14 year old with no sense of maturity yet to rise to the top, it just happened because all due to the surroundings of the time.

    And Tara being on top in 97 was totally different than 98 IMHO. Tara in 97 was not nearly as good a skater as 98, and she did not have the World title attached to her name yet. If you compare the quality of her skating at the 98 Olympics or the 97 Grand Prix final to the 97 Worlds or 97 Nationals I see a huge difference. She also was now a 15 year old with big titles attached to her name who people werent embarassed to see on top which seemed to be the general sentiment in 97 from all I kept hearing or reading. In early 97 she was a 14 year old with no real prior achievements who rose to the top by default. If you recall the skating season that year on the grand prix, the Grand Prix final, basically everything until the spectular Worlds LP thanks to Kwan, Irina, and Tara, it was otherwise unbelievably horrible. It made the 93 and 94 field criticized earlier in this thread look like some superstar extra field.

    I guess one thing I am forgetting is the scenario of Baiul continuing only in her not winning the 94 Olympic Gold so actually I am probably overestimating her name value heading into the quad. Still someone who was already on top going into the quad would have the edge over people who were just coming up later in that quad assuming they mantained even a decent standard of skating. That is just the way the sport was around then, pre COP. And Baiul was of course one of the most overrated and overscored skaters of all time who did not lose her Emperors New Clothes like mystique until a few years of abysmal pro skating and her drunk driving episode. I am not convinced she would have had to ever outskated her competitors to beat them, she certainly didnt outskate them all to win the 93 Worlds or 94 Olympics did she.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2010