Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by longingfornia, Nov 14, 2011.
1 Mao Asada
2 Carolina Kostner
3 Alissa Czisny
4 Akiko Suzuki
5 Ashley Wagner
How do you know that Ashley will make it to Worlds?
Same way longingfornia knows that Mao will win.
This is bold.
Early favorites are definitely Kostner, Asada, and Suzuki. Maybe Czisny can spoil.
i hope Kostner wins but my gut tells me no. I hope Ash can make team as well
Nah. Gizmo will make a comeback and blow everyone out of the water with her voidy FS to selections by Philip Glass.
I think it's high time that Carolina holds the world title, she's got the right jump scale, uniqueness, and grace for it. I just hope she'd do that with at least one lutz and one flip in her long program
I just have a feeling this is Kostner's year.
Well, my favorite skater is Carolina Kostner. But she was pretty clean in her Grand-Prix (at least, she didn't make more mistakes than usual), and she got 182 points. Akiko Suzuki and Mao Asada, less clean than usual, got 185 and 184.
I don't know what to think about that.
Well that's because Carolina did easier triples. As the season progresses I am sure Carolina will put either 2a3t or 3f3t, plus a second 3flip or 3loop into her programs. If she manages to stay relatively clean including those elements, I am sure her scores will be right up there with Mao and Akiko. I am curious to see whether she will already do that next weekend at TEB or whether she will wait till the GPF. Apparently she did 3f3t and 2a3t in practice at COC.
Worlds will be very interesting as there are a lot of ladies who could deliver. It's really up to whoever skates clean that day.
I really hope Carolina can keep the momentum going and finally deliver at Worlds. She really deserves it, she has been through so much and deserves this title IMO.
If there is anyone who deserves this title it would be no one else beside Mao Asada, she has shown such determination to improve and not being afraid of taking risk year after year, by never taking the easy rode like Kostner always does.. and by the time worlds will arrive Mao's technical content will be even harder with the 3A back and who ever knows what more she might put, one thing is for sure Mao herself said that she will level up... and if there is one person who I'm sure will deliever and work hard it's Mao.. and whether it's the technical content or artistically Mao is a miles over kostner, even a flawed Mao is much much better then a clean kostner... anyone with eyes would be able to see that!
but the season still only begun, which is why this discussion may be a bit to early to beginn!
If Czisny makes progress on her ambitious jump layout, I'll put her on the podium ahead of Suzuki. If Nagasu sorts out her head, I'll even put her up there fighting for Gold with Asada and Kostner. Leonova will get politiked to a good position, maybe higher than 6th. That's a promise.
Jumping layouts of theirs are different as Jiggs mentioned, and you can't rule out the fact that Akiko and Mao was skating in their home ice with more polished performances than they usually did for the last couple of seasons. Plus, I've been told that it's not fair to compare scores between different the competitions which have different set of judges with different set of minds of giving out scores
Well, I guess we just have to agree to disagree. Both are extremely talented skaters and have their unique qualities, technically and artistically. I don't think Mao is miles ahead of Carolina though and if they both deliver, it will be close. Same goes for Akiko.
For Mao to win in every even year sounds about right -
like Michelle Kwan did win worlds '96, Olympic silver then worlds '98, not a good post-olympic year (though much better than Mao), then another win in '00 in Nice!
I do believe Carolina will take the silver. I do not believe two Japanese on the podium.
^ Lol with the Nagasu/Wagner.
My favorites would be: Alissa, Mao, Kostner, Suzuki, Ashley. However, it may look more like: Kostner, Mao, Alissa, Suzuki, Leonova, Makarova, Gedevanishvili, Ashley (fingers crossed that Ashley makes the Worlds team). I think Mirai needs to find herself and get music and programs she can be more excited by. She needs to love skating again.
While I love Alissa's gentle art and beautiful spirit, Carolina's quirky elegance and speed, Ashley's new found precision and joy in her programs, Mao's rebirth and Suzuki's redemption, I am disappointed by Alena Leonova's yucky Morosov remake, and by Mirai's seeming lack of growth and heaviness of spirit (it's evident Mirais been training hard and improving her jump technique, but she doesnt seem truly invested in her programs).
Unfortunately, Makarova's, Korpi's, and Gedevanishvili's stunning beauty on the ice is just completely marred by their utter lack of consistency. FS audiences were spoiled by Michelle Kwan's legendary magic and consistency -- she left an amazing legacy, but why not try moving in a different direction ladies? Why not take a chance to be different? And I'm not talking dull, sloppy Leonova Pirates of the Caribbean different! Leonova's programs last season did seem to be stretching toward a more edgy take that was different and exciting, but she's taken two steps backward this season. I think Carolina and Alissa are trying to shore up consistency and express who they are on the ice, Suzuki is reveling in overcoming hardships, and Mao is smiling at rediscovering her inner butterfly, while Mirai to me seems to have been dragged into a direction that is antithetical to her free spirit.
Aside from some semblance of joy and breath of fresh air demonstrated by Suzuki, Mao, Alissa, Carolina, and Ashley in performing their programs, none of the ladies actually seem to be enjoying themselves.
When Worlds comes around, it seems to me that the U.S. doesn't have a great deal of political clout that might help edge their skates in the scoring. E.g., Alissa skated well enough to score higher at 2011 Worlds, while Kostner was helped in the scoring with her mistakes.
^^ Maybe Flatt on top at U.S. Collegiate championships, Jarrett -- she's certainly never threatened to be top 3 at Worlds, much less threatened to contend for gold. Maybe you're being tongue-in-cheek, or else you are a huge fan of Rachael's.
I see Kostner, Czisny, Suzuki, and Asada as the main 4 contenders for gold and the podium favorites. I see Leonova or Nagasu having a chance at a medal (definitely not gold) if one of them skates lights out. I dont really see any other contenders. Wagner will be happy to even make Worlds (I hope she does but even think that is unlikely still), let alone winning a medal.
Right I don't think Ashley is seen as one of the top who can contend for a medal at Worlds -- just getting there will be more than half the battle. If she does make it, I think her programs are strong enough for her to place in the top 8 to 9 or higher if she competes well.
Ashley being able to make the Worlds team I don't think is "unlikely". She has a great chance after her strong showing on the GP circuit. Yes, she has to compete well to make the team, but so do Mirai and Ashley.
what are you smoking?
1. Carolina Kostner
2. Akiko Suzuki
3. Mao Asada
4. Alissa Czisny
5. Alena Leonova
It should be an interesting year since Kim, Ando, and (likely) Flatt aren't competing at Worlds. More opportunies for skaters to medal or just make the team.
Same thing as judge that gave Alena 9.00's for her short program at NHK. I just think this thread is silly when we don't even know who will be on the World teams but has never stopped us before from talking out of our asses.
^^ Yes, I thought you were being facetious, Jarrett. You're right of course. It could even look like this:
Kostner et. al.,
I wouldn't mind Liashenko winning.
And did you see any improvement by Mao ?
I'm also really impressed by her work ethic. But honestly, her jumping technique is exactly the same. Her use of the blade is exactly the same. The way she moves is exactly the same.
On the other hand, Carolina has changed almost everything in her skating going with Franck Carroll. And she shows determination to improve and not being afraid of taking risk year after year, choreographically.
LOL love your sacasm I really hope you didn't mean what you just wrote:
cause if you really meant it you most have smooked smothing before watching Mao, LoL Mao has changed every fricken thing there could be changed, by changing her coach and choreographers, to changing her jumps (flip and lutz) and adding her 3lutz and 3Salcow and 2A-3t combination back so that she now has all kind off jumps in her programs... improving her speed adding new spins (laybackspins in sp)...
carolina is the stick opposite off Mao i every way, her jumps seem forsed where Mao are light and smooth.. Mao has all the jumps and keeps making her arsenal more more diffecult as the season progresses, where carolina always takes the easy rode by doing the easy jumps and the same spins... Mao has amazing spins and spiral just look at her flexibility and her positioning and compare it to carolina and you will see the difference! the list could go on....
my god just comparing those to is a crime cause there is nothing to compare to begin with! just looking at Mao's achievement and compare it to carolina should speak for itself!!
(but you may be right carolina takes alot of risks CHOREOGRAPHICALLY)
One half decent skate and all the ubers are out in full force. Miss Asada did better at NHK then she did last year, but that doesn't mean she is ready to take over the world.
When it comes to skating skills(deep edges, versatile turns with speed) and jumps technique-wise(scale, coverage, height, distance, etc), Carolina is way ahead of the rest of ladies who will possibly show up at this coming worlds. Maybe she is yet to include difficult lutz and flip willingly in her programs but if she does which I'm sure she will by March, Carolina would be the most contending lady.
Mao's 2a-3t at NHK was very impressive given what she had shown for the last couple of seasons, but her flutz was still there, and her flips which used to amaze me with the huge scale has not come back yet. It's still a working process and giving out some positive results finally. But Mao's still got lots of things to prove further to be the most desirable candidate for the world champion IMO.
If she does all those things right and tremendously improves her technique, Mao is gonna be the one to beat and when she's on the top of the podium this season, it'll be her third title and that's what no one else has done since Michelle Kwan. That's kinda awesome but will she be able to deliver that?
... Anyway. I'll go..
5. Nagasu [ hopefully ]
If Mirai doesn't make it then I think Leonova would be the 5th spot. It'll be a crime if we have 3 spots in ladies for 2013 and only 2 spots in men :|
What has Kostner actually improved? She went to Frank and then left, probably because she didn't want to do those run-throughs. She always had great skating skills. So that is not an improvement. The only thing she changed is to scale back her jump difficulty so she can skate cleaner.
I'm with Amy03 and others who recognize Mao's improvements. It took a lot of courage for Mao to decide that she needed to rework her jump technique. For that alone!!! My God to take that risk and to come back and struggle while trying to perfect a new approach. Mao has heart, courage and such a beautiful spirit. So happy to see her inner butterfly taking wing once again.
Funny how much I liked Carolina last season and the season before, when a lot of people were still criticizing her. Now there seems to be a lot of fans getting back on her bandwagon. With her talent, not to mention her political support, Carolina should have been World champion at least 2 or 3 times by now. The reason she hasn't won gold before is due to her own failures under the pressure of the hype and expectations placed on her in her country (and still she's often been kept in the medals undeservedly). Carolina has had the opportunity to attend Worlds since 2003, and she has a spotty record for having had all those opportunities. Granted, she looks good this year, and I say it's about time. Let's see how she fares in the long term. Still, I don't like this leaving out difficult jumps just to stay clean. I know many in this generation of skaters are allowed to get away with doing that under IJS.
She changed her jumping technique. She had a big problem in her jumping technique with her hip (on the landing) before going to Frank Carroll. That's why her landings were so bad circa 2008-2009. She changed her 3Flip entrance, from a mohawk to a 3-turn, she changed her loop technique from a 3-turn sequence to a curve.
She improved a lot her edges (very good before, and amazing now), and improved a lot the use of her arms.
^^ Yes, fair enough, that Carolina has made some improvements too. I still don't like her leaving out jumps. No question, going to Frank helped Carolina. She now seems happier back with her former coach and in a setting she's more comfortable with, plus having applied what she learned from Frank Carroll and Christa Fassi. I read that Carolina didn't like living in the U.S.
I really don't see that many changes. But then we all tend to notice even the most minute improvements in our favorite skaters. The biggest change I see is that she is skating much cleaner these past two years but then I can't rule out the fact that cutting back on difficulty played a part in that.
But actually.... 1) Kostner 2) Asada 3) Czisny 4) Suzuki 5) Nagasu 6) Leonava
I don't get this cutting out difficulty all of you talk about. In the competitions she entered she had the highest TES. As many pointed out, almost all the ladies have one jump they find more difficult an the others and omit it. Just because Carolina happens not to include the jump who is worth the most, there is no difference with witch one a skater take away.
I know she doesn't get great PCS, but does anyone think that Shelepen could make the top 6? She is doing two 3-3s in her long program.
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